DUST Search - Wanna Try Diminishing Returns Again?

RECON BY FIRE wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

Big miku wrote:

DUST Fiend wrote:

I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds like punishing people who actively play the game.

It's not punishing them, god ******* damn it I'm so sick and tired of hearing this garbage "argument". Players that play alot are already being rewarded handsomly in ISK, salvage, and in game experience. Letting them sit there and farm out SP to their hearts content only further serves to reward them, while further punishing the player with less time to play.

And I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't have to sign in and put in your time, that's not what I'm getting at at all. It's that SP shouldn't be some wildly fluctuating variable, it should primarily be limited by the time you've been playing, to further preserve the longevity of the skill system.

This is a garbage counter-argument. If it is unfair for someone to continue earning SP over someone with less time to play, then it is also unfair for them to continue earning ISK or salvage. So basically youre saying players should get nothing after they hit cap.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 270	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:36:00 - [1] - Quote People won't quit complaining about how you cap out and just have to wait until the next week (even though you are still getting a fair sum of SP after each match). So how about for a week or two we go back to diminishing returns but within the current system so instead of dropping SP off at the 0 hard cap it stops at the 1000 soft cap. I think this would be interesting, especially once they implement the SP rollover system. Start off averaging around 9000 SP per ambush, and it slows down gradually as you get closer and closer to your cap. It would make it take longer to reach your cap and at the same time not change any of the current SP system apart from the rate of SP accrual. I expect a lot of hate for suggesting it, and personally I have no issue with the current system, but I'd like to see the newberries thoughts on it. Also, as I said, it would work really well with the rollover system. The more SP you had left over from the previous week, the higher your initial SP gains would be in the following week.
Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 93	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:38:00 - [2] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: fair sum of SP after each match 30 kills, uncountable assist and several lavs later=1500 SP sure is Fair sum.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1150	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:40:00 - [3] - Quote **** No. It used to take 2 hours to get 80% of your sp then another 12 hours to cap out. I expected more from someone who played through it. PS newberries dont need to repond as its just a troll thread
Casius Hakoke Fenrir's Wolves 6	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:41:00 - [4] - Quote I have to say the roll over system you mention would be nice to have for those weeks that I don't hit the SP cap on. But I guess I haven't been paying much attention as I haven't noticed the same complaining about the current SP cap system, although I do see the comments about having to wait to the next week to play more. Which that doesn't really make sense to me, first I find this game pretty fun, but to be honest this is the first fps I have played sense Halo 2. Second, well I guess I don't have a second point except that I don't see why it couldn't be tried the way you suggest it.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 374	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:41:00 - [5] - Quote I had 10,000,000 SP at the end of my first month with that system. Yes I would very much like to return to that. But it would probably not be in the best interest of the game, sadly. Mainly because I get the feeling CCP wants things as close to how their going to be at release as possible (read: whining and ragequiting). Just a feeling I get, anyway.
Kira Lannister Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 730	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:44:00 - [6] - Quote Baal Omniscient wrote: People won't quit complaining about how you cap out and just have to wait until the next week (even though you are still getting a fair sum of SP after each match). So how about for a week or two we go back to diminishing returns but within the current system so instead of dropping SP off at the 0 hard cap it stops at the 1000 soft cap. I think this would be interesting, especially once they implement the SP rollover system. Start off averaging around 9000 SP per ambush, and it slows down gradually as you get closer and closer to your cap. It would make it take longer to reach your cap and at the same time not change any of the current SP system apart from the rate of SP accrual. I expect a lot of hate for suggesting it, and personally I have no issue with the current system, but I'd like to see the newberries thoughts on it. Also, as I said, it would work really well with the rollover system. The more SP you had left over from the previous week, the higher your initial SP gains would be in the following week. Close your mouth boy!
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 995	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:45:00 - [7] - Quote No thanks. The bonus SP after capping should be enough to keep people playing until the rest of the content gives them a better reason.
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2974	Posted - 2013.03.05 20:45:00 - [8] - Quote Please no Deminishing returns that was just plain awful it nearly disincintifivised the first few matches just about.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 270	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:06:00 - [9] - Quote Ok, forget the temporary implementation. But I still like the diminished returns/rollover plan. If the rollover get's implemented with it, then whenever you DON'T cap out for the week, you get that tacked on to your next weeks total SP, which means your SP income is slightly boosted until you make up for the SP you failed to earn the previous week. It would help speed up peoples ability to make up for lost SP while making fully capping out take time. This way if you want to cap out, fine, do so. If you don't, those last few SP will be easy to make up for the next week.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1940	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:13:00 - [10] - Quote I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned.

Big miku Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 93	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:16:00 - [11] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like punishing people who actively play the game.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 270	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:17:00 - [12] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned. You would be ahead... until the next week when everyone else gets those last few SP they didn't feel like grinding out the previous week. That's the beauty of the rollover.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 320	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:34:00 - [13] - Quote Diminishing returns was absolutely awful, the last ~30k or so took forever to get. I don't think I ever once hit the cap with that system. I like the numbers to be definite, meaning if I do X amount of whatever, then I get X amount of SP.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 271	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:48:00 - [14] - Quote Oh well.... was just a thought.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1940	Posted - 2013.03.05 21:51:00 - [15] - Quote Big miku wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like punishing people who actively play the game. It's not punishing them, god ******* damn it I'm so sick and tired of hearing this garbage "argument". Players that play alot are already being rewarded handsomly in ISK, salvage, and in game experience. Letting them sit there and farm out SP to their hearts content only further serves to reward them, while further punishing the player with less time to play.
RECON BY FIRE IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 60	Posted - 2013.03.06 00:10:00 - [16] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: Big miku wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like punishing people who actively play the game. It's not punishing them, god ******* damn it I'm so sick and tired of hearing this garbage "argument". Players that play alot are already being rewarded handsomly in ISK, salvage, and in game experience. Letting them sit there and farm out SP to their hearts content only further serves to reward them, while further punishing the player with less time to play. And I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't have to sign in and put in your time, that's not what I'm getting at at all. It's that SP shouldn't be some wildly fluctuating variable, it should primarily be limited by the time you've been playing, to further preserve the longevity of the skill system. This is a garbage counter-argument. If it is unfair for someone to continue earning SP over someone with less time to play, then it is also unfair for them to continue earning ISK or salvage. So basically youre saying players should get nothing after they hit cap.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1940	Posted - 2013.03.06 01:09:00 - [17] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: This is a garbage counter-argument. If it is unfair for someone to continue earning SP over someone with less time to play, then it is also unfair for them to continue earning ISK or salvage. So basically youre saying players should get nothing after they hit cap. Are we even playing the same game? SP is the baseline of your character, it modifies (almost) every single thing that you can do in the game. It is what makes better gear powerful, by letting you use it, and buffing it. It doesn't hurt the game for a player to accumulate excellent gear early, with a SP system that prevents him from hooking an IV up to his arm and playing for a week straight (let's face it, there are far more of those then many care to admit), because that player can accumulate all the riches he desires, and still not be able to field them until his SP are high enough. Let him farm out the SP above those with lives, and all of a sudden he gets further and further ahead in shorter and shorter time. How people can't grasp this concept is literally beyond me.
ImperfectFan514 IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 57	Posted - 2013.03.06 01:28:00 - [18] - Quote DUST Fiends tears have inspired me to grind out to 6 million SP tonight. So that when I wake up I can grind out another 300k SP to put me to 6.3 million before thursday.
Ghesh Tkall DUST University Ivy League 5	Posted - 2013.03.06 02:28:00 - [19] - Quote Screw the caps! Just implement a matchmaking system based on the amount of SP earned total and it'll be a lot better. Hardcore players can earn all the SP they can handle, and (filthy) casuals don't feel like they're going to get steam-rolled. /thread
Cashern X Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2	Posted - 2013.03.06 02:35:00 - [20] - Quote RECON BY FIRE wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: Big miku wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: I'm strongly against anything that doesn't culminate in a weekly or monthly hard cap on SP. The boosters are bad enough, but being able to just pull further and further ahead in SP if you can just sit in front of your screen all day is just stupid as far as I'm concerned. Sounds like punishing people who actively play the game. It's not punishing them, god ******* damn it I'm so sick and tired of hearing this garbage "argument". Players that play alot are already being rewarded handsomly in ISK, salvage, and in game experience. Letting them sit there and farm out SP to their hearts content only further serves to reward them, while further punishing the player with less time to play. And I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't have to sign in and put in your time, that's not what I'm getting at at all. It's that SP shouldn't be some wildly fluctuating variable, it should primarily be limited by the time you've been playing, to further preserve the longevity of the skill system. This is a garbage counter-argument. If it is unfair for someone to continue earning SP over someone with less time to play, then it is also unfair for them to continue earning ISK or salvage. So basically youre saying players should get nothing after they hit cap. lolwhat? No.

Joseph Ridgeson Cactus Rats 8	Posted - 2013.03.06 03:55:00 - [21] - Quote I do not understand people when it comes to Skinner Box type mechanisms. First, a few things. 1. You are not getting "nothing" from playing once you hit the cap. I cannot imagine that kind of thinking. Would you stop playing TF2 because you don't have a leveling system and thus are "always capped?" What about Halo? Or Serious Sam? Or Quake? Even Call of Duty only has a slight difference in levels overall, equating to (overall) marginally different weapons. Do people just stop playing once they hit the max level? They stop playing when they are no longer having fun. That is what a game is supposed to be about: fun. If someone is begrudgingly playing to get capped, they are doing something wrong. 2. Even with the Soft Cap of 189,000, you still get up to a 1,000 per match. Say that you can get a 1,000 WP in an Ambush and it takes about 7 minutes to do. With the time between getting into matches, call it 10 minutes (might be high, I dunno). That equates to 100 SP a minute, 600 an hour. That is basically increasing your Passive Skill Point gain by 60%. Not much but it is something. That equates to the "hardcore" person getting more over the "casual" player. 3. DUST 514 is related to EVE. It is meant to be slow by design. Before the Training revamp, the average EVE player was pretty much expected to spend a month getting skills that just help you train faster. And with EVE, there is no way to get skill boosts from playing. It is by design that the person not be able to do everything in quick succession. I cannot imagine seeing some people play EVE with the attitude they have in DUST. If you really are about trying to maximize Skill Points, why not have an extra character? It would allow you to specialize in two different things. Say one character focuses on being an Assault player while the other is a Heavy or a pilot. You would end up losing the 168,000 from the Passive Skill gain but would still have progress. It would let you still have the Skinner Box thing while getting an advantage over other players: the ability to do things they could not. But again, if your only concern in the game is that you end up moving the amount of Skill Points you have, I truly feel that you are missing the point of a game.
RECON BY FIRE IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 60	Posted - 2013.03.06 05:17:00 - [22] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: RECON BY FIRE wrote: This is a garbage counter-argument. If it is unfair for someone to continue earning SP over someone with less time to play, then it is also unfair for them to continue earning ISK or salvage. So basically youre saying players should get nothing after they hit cap. Are we even playing the same game? SP is the baseline of your character, it modifies (almost) every single thing that you can do in the game. It is what makes better gear powerful, by letting you use it, and buffing it. It doesn't hurt the game for a player to accumulate excellent gear early, with a SP system that prevents him from hooking an IV up to his arm and playing for a week straight (let's face it, there are far more of those then many care to admit), because that player can accumulate all the riches he desires, and still not be able to field them until his SP are high enough. Let him farm out the SP above those with lives, and all of a sudden he gets further and further ahead in shorter and shorter time. How people can't grasp this concept is literally beyond me. This just shows how much youre missing the big picture. In X amount of time (whether it be 6 months or 1 year or whatever) everyone will be basically maxed when it comes to skills and their chosen build. At that point SP will basically cease to matter. However, what will matter is ISK and assets. If I play all day, every day, I will have more ISK and assets than a casual player. I will also have more rare assets through salvage than is possible for a casual player to have. But yet gaining these extra things that will always matter is somehow fair when gaining extra SP that will cease to matter quicker than people like to admit is not fair? Its fair for me to be able to field endless amounts of proto gear when the casual player can barely afford to lose just one proto suit per match? Its fair for me to be able to profit through various means because of my large amount of officer assets? Do you see how asinine this thinking is yet?
Yozora Mikadzuki Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2013.03.06 05:20:00 - [23] - Quote No, for people like me the diminishing returns made it so that I could never reach the cap.


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