0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
136
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Posted - 2013.03.09 22:17:00 -
[1] - Quote
Mavado, shield tanks with a railgun are a counter to armor tanks. Infantry AV can't deal with armor tanks because they are able to use hardeners 24/7 and repair any damage done to them. The high alpha of the rail is what makes it so that armor rep tanks do not win in every situation.
One single good AV can keep a rail tank out of the battle. Infantry AV is a counter to shield tanks. Armor tanks counter AV infantry. Skill matters a lot too. I recall a recent battle where Slap 1v2 a shield tank w/railgun AND an armor tank at the same time. That's not because shield tanks are OP, especially since the other side had a shield tank too. That's just because slap is crazy good.
There's another problem that's coming into play right now too. Blaster armor tanks have higher DPS than a shield rail tank, even though damage mods are "broken". The skill "Marauder" gives a 4% bonus to race-specific turret damage per level. Unfortunately, the bonus to shield tanks is to missile turrets only. The bonus to armor tanks is for blasters. Once you are able to get enough SP into that skill, you'll have better DPS and be able to solo rail tanks (even those who use broken damage mods) at close range.
It comes down to this:
> a single AV infantry can counter a shield tank with a railgun
> a single armor rep tank can counter a single AV infantry
> a single shield tank at close range with a railgun can counter an armor rep tank
> a single armor tank at close range can counter a shield tank with a railgun
IMO having a hard counter isn't a big deal. What you're asking CCP to do is make railguns ineffective against other tanks as well as being ineffective against enemy infantry. There needs to be some difference between the different vehicles too, beyond "one is shield and one is armor".
And just in case you're wondering, I am currently a shield tank, but I am starting to save up points for my armor fit. Armor tanks are so much better at blasters and CQC than shield tanks. It's almost never worth it to use a shield tank with a blaster, and a shield tank with a blaster will always lose to an armor tank with a blaster. If done correctly, an armor tank will always beat a shield at close range too.
Shield tanks also use a railgun that overheats quickly. Missing one shot is almost certain death, and missing two means GG. Since railguns on tanks take time to reach their targets (unlike sniper rifles), you have to lead your target and time your shot. Railguns on tanks also have a slow turn speed. This can be compensated with mods, but those mods reduce damage (less slots for dmg mods) or tank (in the high slots). It's not like a railgun is a "no-skill" weapon with no weaknesses.
In terms of damage, an ADVANCED breach forge gun's damage is 2,310. The PROTO railgun on a tank (compressed) does 1798.7 damage. If you look at the "assault" variants of each gun, the prototype forge gun (Ishukone) does 1512 damage. The proto rail deals 1438.9 damage.
As you can see, a hand-held weapon can somehow do more damage than a huge gun on a tank already. Yes, the tank is slightly more maneuverable while charging its main weapon, but it is also a huge target that cannot accelerate quickly, and costs over ten times as much as a proto heavy fit (200,000-ish isk for heavy, 2,000,000-ish isk for a Sagaris).
What I think is sad is that the two best shield tankers in the game, Caeli and Slap26, are saving points for armor, have a plan set up for going armor, and/or already have points in armor tanking. This is directly related to something that you pointed out. The only advantage that shield tanks have over armor tanks is the ability to put damage mods on their railgun that the armor tanks cannot. If CCP fixes damage mods without doing something like making the Marauder skill increase railgun damage for shield tanks, there will be absolutely no point to using a shield tank at all. An armor tank will do the same damage as a shield tank with a railgun.
I also disagree with you about the Marauder class tank being under powered and not worth the price in ISK and SP over the standard. The Marauder class gives more PG, more CPU, an extra slot, and more HP. The Marauder class also gives a large damage boost (Marauder skill gives 20% extra damage to an armor tank's blaster, and since the shield tanks have no skill that increases the damage output of their railgun, they are able to do something similar with damage mods).
I'm not one who usually goes on forums asking for nerfs whenever something kills me. The current balance is alright. I would definitely love it if CCP made it so that a small, hand-held weapon does less damage than a gigantic weapon on a HAV, but atm I can deal with it. As someone who is planning to max out both shield tanking and armor, and who plays with people who use both (and many already have both) I think the current balance is fine. I've seriously been going back and forth with corp mates about postponing my 100% sp into shield so I can get a basic armor fit for a much better blaster fit. |
0 Try Harder
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
136
|
Posted - 2013.03.09 22:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Idk, I'm still undecided lol. I really like being the best at one thing, and then figuring out how to use that advantage against others in multiple different situations, but I also like being as effective as I can be in multiple different situations. It's hard! Kind of thinking out loud atm, but if I'm on a map where a blaster is better, I'm at a serious disadvantage in shield. Not only do I not have the marauder skill (for better blaster damage), but I don't have the damage reduction and repair that the armor tanks do. I have a slight advantage in acceleration, but the armor tank can move faster overall and chase me down, so I'll have to get the jump or engage at long range. If I need to engage at long range, I might sacrifice DPS for a blaster with better range so I can attempt to stay out of the armor tank's max effective range. I can't use damage mods. The shield tanks are low on PG, and the blaster takes much more PG to use than the railgun, so I need to use PG mods to increase my tank. I want something that's an HAV, and not an LAV lol. The longer-range blaster uses more PG than the short range high dps one, so I might sacrifice too much tank to fit that too.
arggghhhhhh does anyone else go through this too? QQ I have alts, but none in tanking so I can't satisfy my want to branch out right now on them. It's only on 0 try. I'm kind of hoping that someone will convince me to go armor too, because slap said he'd kick my ass if I stopped maximizing my shield tank early T.T |