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crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 11:21:00 -
[1] - Quote
The 20$ of aurum that come in the merc pack buys you 250 prototype suits.
Is this ok? Is the Aur cost a little low you think? The Merc packs buys you 40,000,000isk worth of prototype suits.
Btw buying Aur weapons doesn't have this massive isk/Aur ratio. You only get about 6 million isk worth of AUR ARs if you use the AUR from the merc pack on them instead.
Also without a proper isk to AUR pricing system, we will not see normal AUR items sold on the market for isk by other players. It would be seen as a waste, and only the most expensive items would be sold.
Dust needs to have AUR prices directly effected by the isk cost, asap.
If we want prototype suits to stay at 160 AUR, then ARs need to cost only 6 Aur a pop. But somehow I think increasing the AUR cost of prototype suits is the way to go. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 11:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
Shyeer Alvarin wrote:Wut? A months worth of EVE in the form of PLEX is worth 350-450 million ISK.
Which buys you ONE BATTLESHIP
or
1000's OF WEAPONS
You missed the point. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 11:33:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shyeer Alvarin wrote:You're complaining about the AUR/ISK value ratio here. A battleship is one -really- big piece of hardware. If anything, CCP could adjust the Aurum prices on non-BPO gear to make it cheaper. We go through dropsuits and modules like EVE players go through ammo, and let me tell you. A PLEX gets you a -ton- of ammunition.
Damn straight. The ratio is why a single merc packs gives a paying players a 130 game advantage in isk. That is over the top, it's not the same for weapons. Buying 20$ worth of anythig else will only give you like a 20 game lead in isk on top of the lowered skill requirements.
The ratio needs to be set in stone, not thrown around.
And again, think about it, the player market is open, you have 10,000 AUR, do you buy the dropsuits or the guns to resell on the market if you are looking for isk? No one will pay too much more than they cost for the basic weapon. What will give you the most isk.
I would suggest ARs only cost 20 AUR. a Simple 1 AUR equals 2000 isk. So prototype dropsuits would cost 400 AUR. you get 100 prototype suits for your merc pack, or an equal isk value of weapons instead.
Now the isk market resell rate is based on what AUR is worth, not the item in question. If I'm being unreasonable, please stop me. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 11:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Shyeer Alvarin wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:Shyeer Alvarin wrote:You're complaining about the AUR/ISK value ratio here. A battleship is one -really- big piece of hardware. If anything, CCP could adjust the Aurum prices on non-BPO gear to make it cheaper. We go through dropsuits and modules like EVE players go through ammo, and let me tell you. A PLEX gets you a -ton- of ammunition. Damn straight. The ratio is why a single merc packs gives a paying players a 130 game advantage in isk. That is over the top, it's not the same for weapons. Buying 20$ worth of anythig else will only give you like a 20 game lead in isk on top of the lowered skill requirements. The ratio needs to be set in stone, not thrown around. And again, think about it, the player market is open, you have 10,000 AUR, do you buy the dropsuits or the guns to resell on the market if you are looking for isk? No one will pay too much more than they cost for the basic weapon. The smart ones go for the Active/Passive boosters to use the real thing sooner. I enjoy taking peoples expensive new toys away from them.
But we are talking about once dust has the player market. You will be able to resell items for isk to other players that you bought for AUR. The devs have been saying that being able to resell any AUR item for isk is what makes this game NOT pay to win. But one item gives the most isk for AUR, only it will be resold on the market.
Bam, only a few tiems are resold of isk, and the game is pay to win again. I don't want to see that happen. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 14:30:00 -
[5] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:@crazy, you make a valid point, but it's a bit extreme. There needs to be adjustments, as there already have been and I'm sure more will follow.
I used a full aurum suit during part of the closed beta, and I burned through 100k aurum in no time. I don't die that often, but it adds up quick.
There needs to be some advantage to using aurum gear, otherwise nobody will use it. I think that allowing people to equip it at a lower level is ideal. One level less is probably preferred (my opinion). I hear the arguement that people can't "catch up" too often on this forum. That's part of playing an mmo. Using aurum should give you some assistance with this, but you have to be prepared to put in the time and effort. After 6+ months, we'll all be the same.
How is what I'm trying to say being so misunderstood? : (
You didn't even read my post did you. Te gear doesn't need a nerf, AUR needs to be based on a fix rate. The current AUR price is too low. That doesn't mean the suits need a change. 20$ should give you 100 suits not 250.
Plus the fix to the future player market where AUR items can get resold for isk. If some AUR items are worth more isk than others, then the rest will be sold on the market for isk. Also it sets the price of active boosters for dust mercs, so it should be a contronled value, not random like it is now. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 14:39:00 -
[6] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:This is a valid concern.
Keep it to yourself and make profit, this is New Eden. I'm glad someone at least gets I'm not saying it's pay to win becuase it's a good suit, it's a price conern and an out of control market that kills the AUR player market trades down to a single item with the most worth in isk. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
901
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 14:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Deskalkulos Ildigan wrote:Another problem is: You are basically burning real money for something that might not even last a minute on the battlefield.
Lets do some obstruse math: 20$ == 40k Aurum => 1 Aurum == 0,05 Cent
That doesn't seem a lot
One aurum suit + one aurum weapon: 180+40 Aurum == 220 Aurum == 11 cents
So every time you lose a life on the battlefield while using only an aurum suit with an aurum weapon, you might as well burn 11 real world cents. (lets assume, that the person uses isk items for the modules to keep the math as basic as possible -- too lazy to look into the game for the module aurum prices).
This might not sound like much to someone who isn't dying a lot on the battlefield, but the main portion of the people who play this game do die. A lot. Of course all we can do is speculate, but i do think that it is best for ccp to adjust the real world prizes for their ingame gear to a level that a mid-level player (as in: the main portion of the playerbase skill-wise) might be interested in buying aurum gear continuously. Higher prizes would come with higher lose per death, and who wants to pay a Dollar every time they die?
By the way your assumption would raise the only weapon and suit cost from 11 cents to 30.6 Cents. So if we assume, that the main part of people die 4-6 times a game, those couldn't even last 30 games (30.6*4==122,4Cents per game -> 2000Cent / 122,4Cent per game == 16,34 games) with a 20$ purchase. This means they could barely play a game a day (assuming, that they use aurum gear in all games) over the course of a month.
We don't know the charts of those people who actually pay for aurum gear, about how often they die. But it is CCP's job to make sure, that they appeal to the main playerbase with their aurum gear prizes. It is also hard to see, how buying aurum gear increases your performance ingame, which does have to be taken into account.
Edit: This is all only regarding your "the prize is too damn low" argument. The variance one does seem pretty valid after taking a first glance over it
I'm ok with the current price of prototype suits becoming the standard and weapons becoming cheaper, down to 3-4 AUR each. But there needs to be a consistent system. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
902
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Reav Hannari wrote:You can't judge how much things will sell for in a future, player-based market. The prices that CCP has put on items today is arbitrary. .
sigh
That isn't how it works when you intro duce an item into the market for cash. I know for a FACT becuase we allready have eve. Items in the MT store are set to the current plex to isk conversion rate.
If prototype suits give a 400% higher payout in isk compared to other AUR items nothing will be sold BUT THE HIGHEST PRICED ISK ITEM.
See the isk prices will be set by what value people put to AUR. That will be based on what the AUR is worth.
LEra asume player created suits. Proto heavies cost 4 times more materials to build, why waste your money on guns that cost 200 AUR for 5 guns when you could buy 1 single protosuit and get more bank for your buck.
I'm losing faith in the forums
People are just reading what they want to and not what is represented. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
902
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 20:50:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sontie wrote:20 bucks for 250 proto suits sounds good to me.
I don't understand why your crying. Seeing lower SP people in proto gear who no have a chance to actually kill you upsets you? Is your KDR per match falling to something reasonable? OH NOES!
oh look you didn't read the 1st post, good job +1 you're a hero.
thick headed idiots , everywhere. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
902
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 21:00:00 -
[10] - Quote
Stinker Butt wrote:crazy space 1 wrote:How is what I'm trying to say being so misunderstood? : (
You didn't even read my post did you. Te gear doesn't need a nerf, AUR needs to be based on a fix rate. The current AUR price is too low. That doesn't mean the suits need a change. 20$ should give you 100 suits not 250.
Plus the fix to the future player market where AUR items can get resold for isk. If some AUR items are worth more isk than others, then the rest will be sold on the market for isk. Also it sets the price of active boosters for dust mercs, so it should be a contronled value, not random like it is now. Yes, I read it. But maybe I wasn't clear in my reply. I said you made a valid point. I agree with adjusting the prices to make them a little more uniform in aurum vs isk (heavy suit isk prices should drop imo). But the statistics that you posted make it sound like there is some insurmountable advantage to aurum users. I don't believe this to be the case. crazy space 1 wrote: To match the player who spend real money in dust you'd have to play 133 matches of ambush just to catch up to the AUR purchaser. This is not due to buying AUR suits to be pay to win. But it becomes pay to win when the price is so low it's destroys the whole market and balance of the game.
a 10,000 isk gun sells for 40 AUR
a 200,000 isk suit sells for 180 AUR
DO YOU SEE NOTHING WRONG? As for catching up, that's part of the game. I don't agree that the price is so low it's pay to win. I said a bunch of mean things about you but edited it.
BUY AUR 20,000 Buy 100 proto suits sell for the price the normal one is worth or higher. say 300,000 isk at the time. now I've got 30,000,000 isk Buy isk proto ARs, 10,000 a pop I now have 3000 ARs Resell them on the market or to another player below the set AUR price which only CCP sets. which is 40 AUR Now I've got 120,000 AUR So now I buy 600 protosuits then sell those for isk giving me 36 billion isk
so all I need to do now is repeat it once, sell the next round of protosuits and I've got 216 billion isk in a matter of days. And I only had to spend 10$ on AUR.
ok now stop being worried you are going to have you unfair advantage of super cheap protosuits, and start focusing onthe game breaking mechanic sitting in the room. |
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crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
902
|
Posted - 2013.03.03 23:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Bumping untill a blue can explain why different AUR items have such vastly different isk values. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
904
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:45:00 -
[12] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:You can't judge how much things will sell for in a future, player-based market. The prices that CCP has put on items today is arbitrary. You really can't compare pricing to EVE yet either because the economies are very different.
I've been running a mix of Logistics Type-I, A-Series and vk.0 since the Aurum prototype suits came out and while the prototype suit is nice I wouldn't call in game-breakingly awesome. I don't run the other suit types so I can't judge them, but I've been killing PRO assault suits regularly with my Type-I and Exile so they aren't that awesome. My SP has mostly gone into logistics equipment and not firearms and I only fit one damage module so if you die to me, well, you should be ashamed.
I appreciate your concern over them but I think you're exaggerating their influence. QFT Dust, like Eve, will feature a player based economy. All these threads about ISK/risk or ISK vs Aur, or costs in general are pointless. Please stop making them.
console kiddies, where do you come from. Where did you train reading comprehension.
Even rookie ships in eve online being NPC seeded set a isk value to the basic material everyhting is made of. Having NPC seeded items like AUR dropsuits set a base price. Even when things are player built, the minerals have a set price. If 200 AUR can buy you a trucks worth of material or a small bucket, you will go for the truck.
Sigh, I guess we'll just to wait untill it happens and I get 6 trillion isk in the frist week maybe then CCP with patch this stupid ****. yes I'm mad. |
crazy space 1
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
904
|
Posted - 2013.03.04 07:46:00 -
[13] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Reav Hannari wrote:You can't judge how much things will sell for in a future, player-based market. The prices that CCP has put on items today is arbitrary. You really can't compare pricing to EVE yet either because the economies are very different.
I've been running a mix of Logistics Type-I, A-Series and vk.0 since the Aurum prototype suits came out and while the prototype suit is nice I wouldn't call in game-breakingly awesome. I don't run the other suit types so I can't judge them, but I've been killing PRO assault suits regularly with my Type-I and Exile so they aren't that awesome. My SP has mostly gone into logistics equipment and not firearms and I only fit one damage module so if you die to me, well, you should be ashamed.
I appreciate your concern over them but I think you're exaggerating their influence. QFT Dust, like Eve, will feature a player based economy. All these threads about ISK/risk or ISK vs Aur, or costs in general are pointless. Please stop making them.
Which is why when they almost released a AUR only battleship into eve online the player base roits and got it canceled becuaseit would set the vlaue of tons of objects and ruin the point of a playerbased econmy. No set value for AUR and the game is broken.
This is not a QQ thread you idiot. |
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