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METR0 THE DESTR0YER
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
76
   |
Posted - 2013.02.27 06:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Has anyone tried this? Has anyone put 4 25% armor hardness modules on an armor tank? Does It take damage being at 100% resistance? Or is the stack penalty working? |
Sgt Kirk
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
359
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
I'm not being sarcastic or smutty when I say this but wouldn't your corpmate Zitro know? |
METR0 THE DESTR0YER
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
76
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
He would troll me if I asked, plus he is not on. |
itsBad Furry
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
METR0 THE DESTR0YER wrote:Has anyone tried this? Has anyone put 4 25% armor hardness modules on an armor tank? Does It take damage being at 100% resistance? Or is the stack penalty working?
wow dud rely ?
some corp you have their |
Wigglen Tallywacker
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
5
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:17:00 -
[5] - Quote
METR0 THE DESTR0YER wrote:He would troll me if I asked, plus he is not on.
If your own corporation would troll you then rather give you an honest answer, what does that tell you? |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
635
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction. |
itsBad Furry
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
METR0 THE DESTR0YER wrote:He would troll me if I asked, plus he is not on.
may be you should leave them it dont sound like to me there the good guys you think!
i mean if they where why would there best player troll you on something that's not ez to start with for anyone (unless your a eve player)
and still why is he the only one who knows ??? |
Lavirac JR
DUST University
Ivy League
129
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
There is a stacking penalty with them after the first (unless it is bugged). After 3, it is not worth using another over a repairer or armor plate.
The way resistance is calculated is multiplicative, not additive also. So in effect it is 25% TIMES 25% Times, not 25% + 25%. |
itsBad Furry
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 06:20:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction.
dont forget what is hitting you and what tank your in as well as the kind of tank |
METR0 THE DESTR0YER
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 06:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
itsBad Furry wrote:METR0 THE DESTR0YER wrote:He would troll me if I asked, plus he is not on. may be you should leave them it dont sound like to me there the good guys you think! i mean if they where why would there best player troll you on something that's not ez to start with for anyone (unless your a eve player) and still why is he the only one who knows ???
Lol, I don't mind him trolling me because I troll him hard back. It's a vicious cycle. It's all good fun I suppose. |
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Buster Friently
Rosen Association
29
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:24:00 -
[11] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction.
Yay for understanding that percentages are multiplicative. |
METR0 THE DESTR0YER
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
76
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Buster Friently wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction. Yay for understanding that percentages are multiplicative.
Thanks brah. I'm dumb when it comes down to percents, and fractions. Derp  |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction.
Is there any official word on whether this is the calculation used?
I've been wondering about the stacking "reduced effectiveness". Its hard to gauge. |
Nguruthos IX
Kameira Lodge
Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lavirac JR wrote:There is a stacking penalty with them after the first (unless it is bugged). After 3, it is not worth using another over a repairer or armor plate.
The way resistance is calculated is multiplicative, not additive also. So in effect it is 25% TIMES 25% Times, not 25% + 25%.
If the above calculation is right why even have more than two? |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
481
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Posted - 2013.02.27 06:51:00 -
[15] - Quote
I run 3 and it tends to make life as an armor tank a lot easier, but i've run into some tanks that seem near invincible, I realise that people who have skilled up tanks before me will have much meaner guns but it seems to me the tanking shouldn't be all that different.
I need to pay more attention to the numbers I see while im dying to them, only way you can do 4 hardeners is to be active rep fit or entirely buffer. |
METR0 THE DESTR0YER
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
76
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 06:57:00 -
[16] - Quote
Thanks guys. I was just wondering because I just speced into armor tanks as well as shields.
My madrugar armor tank has 4 hardners, and 1 heavy armor rep. Along with 2 15% shield resist, and a proto blaster.
I haven't tested it yet but I have a feeling it will beast other tanks. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
635
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Posted - 2013.02.27 08:04:00 -
[17] - Quote
METR0 THE DESTR0YER wrote:Buster Friently wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction. Yay for understanding that percentages are multiplicative. Thanks brah. I'm dumb when it comes down to percents, and fractions. Derp
No problem. :)
Nguruthos IX wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction. Is there any official word on whether this is the calculation used? I've been wondering about the stacking "reduced effectiveness". Its hard to gauge.
Dunno about official word, but I'm pretty sure it's the calculation that was used a couple builds ago when some of us did some thorough player-side testing on various items. It's just a matter of if the stacking penalties work or not, various things' stacking penalties have gone back and forth with working/not working over the builds I think. |
BOZ MR
BurgezzE.T.F
Orion Empire
15
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Posted - 2013.02.27 10:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
It can not be 1*0,75*0,75 and so on because if you use one that means it is 75% resist.
It is 1,25*1,25 multiplied by penalties so you do not get more than you should.
Ex:
1,25*1,25 = 1,56 meaning 56% resistance.
Lets say stacking penalty applies:(I do not know the stacking penalty its just a random number that I came up with)
1,25*1,25(now the stacking penalty)*0,9 = 1,4 meaning 40% resistance.
Calculations were made asumming that you have two 25% resist mods.
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fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
214
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:37:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:From my understanding, the resists, if stacking penalties are ignored, would be:
1*0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 31.6% damage taken
They aren't adding together to where 4x25% = 100% damage reduction.
This is exactly right, assuming no additional stacking penalties with from my memory of eve i believe there are none(ill test this in pyfa and get back to you.
that said we don't know what base resistances are and therefore have no goddamn clue what damage you actually take.
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Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:40:00 -
[20] - Quote
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty
but... dont bother just do pew pew ;) |
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fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
214
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
BOZ MR wrote:It can not be 1*0,75*0,75 and so on because if you use one that means it is 75% resist.
It is 1,25*1,25 multiplied by penalties so you do not get more than you should.
Ex:
1,25*1,25 = 1,56 meaning 56% resistance.
Lets say stacking penalty applies:(I do not know the stacking penalty its just a random number that I came up with)
1,25*1,25(now the stacking penalty)*0,9 = 1,4 meaning 40% resistance.
Calculations were made asumming that you have two 25% resist mods.
nope this is exactly wrong(if resistances work like they do in eve) its a percentage of the difference between current resistance and 100%=> it is impossible to reach 100% but you can always get a little bit closer.
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fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
214
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
here we go this is straight from EVE wiki
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Eve_math#Resistances
Resistances
Resistances are best thought of as reductions to incoming damage. Each mod affects one or all of the four resistances for each layer of defence. It's easy to see that the -25% EM Damage Resistance Bonus of the Adaptive Invulnerability Field I on a ship with 0% EM resistance would reduce incoming damage by 25%. If the ship has 20% thermal resistance already, then you need to multiply the penalties to incoming damage together:
20% base resistance (1 - 0.2) = 0.8
25% Adaptive Invulnerability Field (1 - 0.25) = 0.75
0.8 * 0.75 = 0.6
(1 - 0.6) = 0.4 or 40% resistance.
Besides the base resistances of the ship and the Damage Control module, all resistance rigs/modules suffer a stacking penalty. The stacking penalty is ordered highest to lowest per resistance, not per rig/module, which means the highest resistance module for that resistance is calculated first, even though that may not be the highest resist module for another resist.
For example, a ship with base shield resistances, an Adaptive Invulnerability Field I, an EM Ward Field I, a Thermic Dissipation Field I , and a Damage Control I would have the following.
EM
(base) 1.0 * (DCU) 0.925 * (EM Ward Field) 0.5 * (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 - 0.25 * 0.8691) = 0.361 or 64%
Thermal
(base) 0.8 * (DCU) 0.925 * (Thermic Dissipation Field I) 0.5 * (Adaptive Invulnerability Field (diminished)) (1 - 0.25 * 0.8691) = 0.289 or 71%
Kinetic
0.6 * 0.925 * 0.75 = 0.416 or 58%
Explosive
65%
Three Adaptive Invulnerability Fields, due to diminishing returns would provide much lower EM and Thermal (38% and 50%) with only a 63% kinetic resistance. |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
214
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:45:00 -
[23] - Quote
granted we dont have individual resistance modules but the math works the same. |
Rasatsu
Much Crying Old Experts
443
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:45:00 -
[24] - Quote
Note there's a difference between 'stacking', E.g...
The multiply effect from full damage (1.0) and multiplying with the modules: 1.0 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75 * 0.75
And the stacking penalty: 1.0 * 0.75 * (0.75 + P_1) * (0.75 + P_2) * (0.75 + P_3) |
fred orpaul
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
214
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:48:00 -
[25] - Quote
Jack Boost wrote:http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty
but... dont bother just do pew pew ;)
damn beat me to it. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 10:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
fred orpaul wrote:
that said we don't know what base resistances are and therefore have no goddamn clue what damage you actually take.
Easy. Resistances in eve are fixed (more or less) to races. Now you got caldari and gelante versions of stuff.
Only we miss what type of dmg we do from each weapon for shure. Some types of weapon/ammo do more type dmg then one (usualy faction wariants). Just wait for ammo in Dust 514. We will get better descriptions also.
Gelante:
Armor
Armor EM Damage Resistance : 60%
Armor Explosive Damage Resistance : 10%
Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance : 35%
Armor Thermal Damage Resistance : 35%
Shield
Shield EM Damage Resistance : 0%
Shield Explosive Damage Resistance : 50%
Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance : 40%
Shield Thermal Damage Resistance : 20%
Caldari:
Armor
Armor EM Damage Resistance : 60%
Armor Explosive Damage Resistance : 10%
Armor Kinetic Damage Resistance : 25%
Armor Thermal Damage Resistance : 45%
Shield
Shield EM Damage Resistance : 0%
Shield Explosive Damage Resistance : 50%
Shield Kinetic Damage Resistance : 40%
Shield Thermal Damage Resistance : 20%
Rest you check at eve wiki. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
483
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 11:29:00 -
[27] - Quote
Yeah all these copy pastes would be useful IF armor hardeners were suffering from stacking penalties which a number of people believe they are not, and was mentioned in the OP, hence why ppl were wondering if 4 hardeners would cause an invincibility mode.
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ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
199
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Posted - 2013.02.27 11:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Needs graphs |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
|
Posted - 2013.02.27 11:40:00 -
[29] - Quote
Some graphs here ...lol
http://serpentinelogic.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/stacking-penalties/ |
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