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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.21 17:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is a repost of a thread in the Feedback/Request subsection as CCP has (yet again) failed to mention that the issue exists in their Feedback/Bugs weekly updates. There has been absolutely no acknowledgement that the skills are - in fact - broken, much less any mention of a possible fix, EVEN LESS on when that possible fix could possibly be implemented.
I'm asking that the community constantly and consistently remind CCP of this problem until it's at the very least acknowledged as a problem. I understand that there are a lot of other issues currently on the drawing board but as it stands this one has yet to even be mentioned, let alone worked on.
For those of you who have been using the Laser Rifle you might note that your Laser Rifle Operation skill does not allow you to fire any more or less before the weapon overheats, LRO 1 will let you fire 80% of the mag before overheating, LRO 5 will let you fire 80% of the mag before overheating. There is absolutely no change.
In fact, the only actual usage of these skills are to allow you to get to the next tier of Laser Rifle and being as there are no Assault/Breach variants it's slim pickings.
Quoted for Publicity!
Zero Harpuia wrote:Laser Rifles, like any other weapon of DUST, have two skills incorporated for them. Laser Rifle Operation has a 5% decrease to heat generation per level, and Laser Rifle Proficiency has a 3% stronger cool down per level. Only they don't These skills do NOTHING, and not 'nothing' weak like Swarm Launcher Operation, flat out NOTHING. To test this, I had a Laser Rifle, skilled to Operations IV, and fired it from full to overheat. I got 80% of the charge off (20 ammo remaining). My corpmate leveled into Laser Rifles with a fresh-faced Operations I. He then fired from full to overheat, and got off... 80% of his charge (20 ammo remaining). Noticing something wasn't adding up, I attempted the same feat with the Advanced variant, the ELM-7 Laser Rifle, to see if the supposed bonus of using it existed. I fired it from full to heat, and I got off 84% of the charge (16 ammo remaining).
ADDENDUM: Adding points to Light Sharpshooter will also increase the MINIMUM range as well as the MAXIMUM, so choosing to have the skill doesn't allow you the ability to fight from further away, it FORCES you to, as it kills your ability to do damage at mid-range. Credit for this find goes to Musta Tornius
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The Dragon Ascendant
Celtic Anarchy
101
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Posted - 2013.02.21 17:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
Yeah, I'd really like to be able to invest my sp into lasers and make myself even more unbelievably dangerous. Can't wait for the day it gets fixed and suddenly find that I can shoot people for even longer. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.21 18:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Dragon Ascendant wrote:Yeah, I'd really like to be able to invest my sp into lasers and make myself even more unbelievably dangerous. Can't wait for the day it gets fixed and suddenly find that I can shoot people for even longer.
Not sure if serious or sarcasm, but if sarcasm - I'll gladly hold up the HMG as a defense to the argument. |
SickJ
French unchained corporation
48
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Posted - 2013.02.21 19:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zero Harpuia wrote: ADDENDUM: Adding points to Light Sharpshooter will also increase the MINIMUM range as well as the MAXIMUM, so choosing to have the skill doesn't allow you the ability to fight from further away, it FORCES you to, as it kills your ability to do damage at mid-range. Credit for this find goes to Musta Tornius
[/quote]
Can anyone confirm this? I've got Light Sharpshooter level 2, and I haven't noticed any difference at close range (I mostly use assault rifles). |
WyrmHero1945
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
9
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Posted - 2013.02.21 21:11:00 -
[5] - Quote
Now that I think of it, it makes sense that increasing the range of the LR by the sharpshooter skill does makes the LR even weaker at mid range. This is because the minimum range for max LR damage increases, thus making you having to fire the laser at even longer ranges than before. Am I right? ?? |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
155
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Posted - 2013.02.21 21:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
I posted this in page 2 of the original thread on this issue but I'm not sure if it was addressed:
Have you guys tried timing how long it takes to overheat? Perhaps that is what increases.
And @SickJ,
Minimum range only applies to laser rifles. However, optimum range might change due to sharpshooter. See that sticky thread on optimum weapon ranges and I suppose you just add the bonus range from sharpshooter onto those values and you have a new optimum range. |
The Dragon Ascendant
Celtic Anarchy
101
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Posted - 2013.02.22 00:04:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:The Dragon Ascendant wrote:Yeah, I'd really like to be able to invest my sp into lasers and make myself even more unbelievably dangerous. Can't wait for the day it gets fixed and suddenly find that I can shoot people for even longer. Not sure if serious or sarcasm, but if sarcasm - I'll gladly hold up the HMG as a defense to the argument.
Oh no, totally serious. I am actually quite dangerous with a laser right now, I honestly can't wait until I am even more so.
Vyzion Eyri wrote:I posted this in page 2 of the original thread on this issue but I'm not sure if it was addressed:
Have you guys tried timing how long it takes to overheat? Perhaps that is what increases.
At level 1 you can fire a full 100 mag and it overheats at 20 left. It does the same at level 5. You still drain the mag at the same rate, thus it overheats at the same time, thus it is taking the same amount of time to overheat. It's really not that hard to see. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
155
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Posted - 2013.02.22 02:54:00 -
[8] - Quote
The Dragon Ascendant wrote:
At level 1 you can fire a full 100 mag and it overheats at 20 left. It does the same at level 5. You still drain the mag at the same rate, thus it overheats at the same time, thus it is taking the same amount of time to overheat. It's really not that hard to see.
Can you do a test and prove it to me? You, or anyone.
Fire a laser rifle until it overheats, timing it from start to overheat. Upgrade your operation skill, and do the exact same thing.
If the times are exactly the same, I'll shut up. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:The Dragon Ascendant wrote:
At level 1 you can fire a full 100 mag and it overheats at 20 left. It does the same at level 5. You still drain the mag at the same rate, thus it overheats at the same time, thus it is taking the same amount of time to overheat. It's really not that hard to see.
Can you do a test and prove it to me? You, or anyone. Fire a laser rifle until it overheats, timing it from start to overheat. Upgrade your operation skill, and do the exact same thing. If the times are exactly the same, I'll shut up.
That would tie into Fire Rate, not overheat. Even still, either one would still take away from the magazine. Firing for longer doesn't necessarily mean anything, if you've got 20 left in the mag you've got 20 left in the mag when it overheats; each 'round' doing the same damage it always has. This would actually be detrimental to the design of the weapon, causing it's 'rounds' to be more spread out and do -less- damage.
At least, that's my theory. |
Vyzion Eyri
The Southern Legion
155
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Posted - 2013.02.22 05:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:The Dragon Ascendant wrote:
At level 1 you can fire a full 100 mag and it overheats at 20 left. It does the same at level 5. You still drain the mag at the same rate, thus it overheats at the same time, thus it is taking the same amount of time to overheat. It's really not that hard to see.
Can you do a test and prove it to me? You, or anyone. Fire a laser rifle until it overheats, timing it from start to overheat. Upgrade your operation skill, and do the exact same thing. If the times are exactly the same, I'll shut up. That would tie into Fire Rate, not overheat. Even still, either one would still take away from the magazine. Firing for longer doesn't necessarily mean anything, if you've got 20 left in the mag you've got 20 left in the mag when it overheats; each 'round' doing the same damage it always has. This would actually be detrimental to the design of the weapon, causing it's 'rounds' to be more spread out and do -less- damage. At least, that's my theory.
Continuous fire increases damage. Longer it takes to overheat means more time at high damage. |
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Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.22 09:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vyzion Eyri wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Vyzion Eyri wrote:The Dragon Ascendant wrote:
At level 1 you can fire a full 100 mag and it overheats at 20 left. It does the same at level 5. You still drain the mag at the same rate, thus it overheats at the same time, thus it is taking the same amount of time to overheat. It's really not that hard to see.
Can you do a test and prove it to me? You, or anyone. Fire a laser rifle until it overheats, timing it from start to overheat. Upgrade your operation skill, and do the exact same thing. If the times are exactly the same, I'll shut up. That would tie into Fire Rate, not overheat. Even still, either one would still take away from the magazine. Firing for longer doesn't necessarily mean anything, if you've got 20 left in the mag you've got 20 left in the mag when it overheats; each 'round' doing the same damage it always has. This would actually be detrimental to the design of the weapon, causing it's 'rounds' to be more spread out and do -less- damage. At least, that's my theory. Continuous fire increases damage. Longer it takes to overheat means more time at high damage.
Ooooooooooor the more likely scenario: Longer it takes to overheat, longer it takes to get to that high damage point.
Edit: Either way, it's stupid going through 80% of the magazine just to have to reload the damned thing anyway. It should a single ammo pool. |
Bendtner92
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
369
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Posted - 2013.02.22 10:07:00 -
[12] - Quote
The skills should be fixed, absolutely, but they also need to make it overheat way faster. Overheating at only 20 shots left with no skills is beyond stupid. Why even have an overheat function in that case. |
lowratehitman
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
285
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Posted - 2013.02.22 10:25:00 -
[13] - Quote
The LR is a situational weapon at best, speeding up how fast it over heats...hmmm, are you going to increase the MAX DMG period that you get off the last 25% of the cycle before it overheats? |
Delta Iddon
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.02.22 11:30:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Ooooooooooor the more likely scenario: Longer it takes to overheat, longer it takes to get to that high damage point.
Edit: Either way, it's stupid going through 80% of the magazine just to have to reload the damned thing anyway. It should a single ammo pool.
That would be pretty stupid if it didnt need to be reloaded, micro managing the heat would allow you to unload your entire ammo without stopping |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
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Posted - 2013.02.22 11:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Delta Iddon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Ooooooooooor the more likely scenario: Longer it takes to overheat, longer it takes to get to that high damage point.
Edit: Either way, it's stupid going through 80% of the magazine just to have to reload the damned thing anyway. It should a single ammo pool.
That would be pretty stupid if it didnt need to be reloaded, micro managing the heat would allow you to unload your entire ammo without stopping
Micromanaging the heat as it currently stands is just holding the trigger down until it gets to 25 rounds left in the magazine dude... It's silly.
Also, you're pretty much bashing the intended playstyle of the weapon, if we're basing it on it's skills of Heat Reduction (Laser Rifle Operation) and Cooldown (Laser Rifle Proficiency)
It'd be like me saying, "That'd be pretty stupid if the Assault Rifle could fire throughout it's entire magazine, micro managing the bursts would allow you to unload your entire ammo at perfect accuracy".
edit: That and the fact that you've effectively got four magazines worth of ammo with no skills pretty much sums it up anyway, any idiot who's ever touched the Laser Rifle knows that when you get to that magic 'overheat' point (20 rounds left in the magazine) you're going to be reloading ANYWAY or asking for your own death certificate when a firefight does start up. |
Delta Iddon
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
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Posted - 2013.02.22 12:26:00 -
[16] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Delta Iddon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Ooooooooooor the more likely scenario: Longer it takes to overheat, longer it takes to get to that high damage point.
Edit: Either way, it's stupid going through 80% of the magazine just to have to reload the damned thing anyway. It should a single ammo pool.
That would be pretty stupid if it didnt need to be reloaded, micro managing the heat would allow you to unload your entire ammo without stopping Micromanaging the heat as it currently stands is just holding the trigger down until it gets to 25 rounds left in the magazine dude... It's silly. Also, you're pretty much bashing the intended playstyle of the weapon, if we're basing it on it's skills of Heat Reduction (Laser Rifle Operation) and Cooldown (Laser Rifle Proficiency) It'd be like me saying, "That'd be pretty stupid if the Assault Rifle could fire throughout it's entire magazine, micro managing the bursts would allow you to unload your entire ammo at perfect accuracy". edit: That and the fact that you've effectively got four magazines worth of ammo with no skills pretty much sums it up anyway, any idiot who's ever touched the Laser Rifle knows that when you get to that magic 'overheat' point (20 rounds left in the magazine) you're going to be reloading ANYWAY or asking for your own death certificate when a firefight does start up.
you wont be reloading anyway, you will tap the extra 20 ammo into the target then reload.
The laser rifle as it currently stands, in my opinion, is pretty damn powerful, allowing it to use all of its ammo without reloading would be too much of a buff. (but increasing the ammo per clip to something like 130 sounds reasonable)
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udc
Sektor Sieben Kybernetik GWK
17
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Posted - 2013.02.22 13:09:00 -
[17] - Quote
I don't care how broken the laser rifle gets, as long as it keeps making that hypno-toad sound I'll use it and cherish it. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.22 13:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
I have verified both skills indeed do not work. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.02.22 20:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Delta Iddon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Delta Iddon wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Ooooooooooor the more likely scenario: Longer it takes to overheat, longer it takes to get to that high damage point.
Edit: Either way, it's stupid going through 80% of the magazine just to have to reload the damned thing anyway. It should a single ammo pool.
That would be pretty stupid if it didnt need to be reloaded, micro managing the heat would allow you to unload your entire ammo without stopping Micromanaging the heat as it currently stands is just holding the trigger down until it gets to 25 rounds left in the magazine dude... It's silly. Also, you're pretty much bashing the intended playstyle of the weapon, if we're basing it on it's skills of Heat Reduction (Laser Rifle Operation) and Cooldown (Laser Rifle Proficiency) It'd be like me saying, "That'd be pretty stupid if the Assault Rifle could fire throughout it's entire magazine, micro managing the bursts would allow you to unload your entire ammo at perfect accuracy". edit: That and the fact that you've effectively got four magazines worth of ammo with no skills pretty much sums it up anyway, any idiot who's ever touched the Laser Rifle knows that when you get to that magic 'overheat' point (20 rounds left in the magazine) you're going to be reloading ANYWAY or asking for your own death certificate when a firefight does start up. you wont be reloading anyway, you will tap the extra 20 ammo into the target then reload. The laser rifle as it currently stands, in my opinion, is pretty damn powerful, allowing it to use all of its ammo without reloading would be too much of a buff. (but increasing the ammo per clip to something like 130 sounds reasonable)
Uhhhh, no? Do you even use the Laser Rifle? Apparently not - 'tap the extra 20 ammo into the target then reload' is what amateurs do; a veteran will reload the entire magazine and then start firing again because at that engagement range you're not particularly worried about them firing back with any lethal force.
And while we're on the topic, how would you even know if it's too much of a buff if the skills don't even work? The cooldown takes a while and it heats up faster than it coolsdown, **** you have to micro-manage heat on a Blaster Turret and it has infinite ammo so this argument is invalid in the first place. |
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