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Busty M4rinara
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
17
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Posted - 2013.02.18 14:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
[FRESH IDEA] because i havent seen this suggested yet. And if it has, then that dude is right! I have spent awhile through swarm laucher balance threads (there are alot of them). I also been doing ALOT OF THINKING (which isnt too often).
PROBLEM: Swarms do not do instant damage
This is the true problem. Because missiles are missiles, they should never do instant damage (EVE Lore). This is the question that has all of us on 2 sides:
The "auto lock is for noobs. missiles should shoot in a straight line" OR Been there, done that, does not work. Kills infantry, and sucks vs vehicles.
A BIGGER PROBLEM: Swarms you can do peek-a-book over a hill and get guaranteed hits. Making tankers wonder why they even drop millions of isk in the first place. At least with forges you have to charge, aim, and then fire (and if you are good, hit the target). Swarms take no skill.
SOLUTION: It hit me at 6am, and thats why im up so early typing this XD.
Keep forges as they are. They are a charge-over-time, instant damage weapon. Have you also noticed that when a forge is charged that the guy STANDS NEARLY STILL? THE TANKER AND ANTI-ARMOR VISUAL CONTACT IS THE KEY!
The Swarms should keep the lock. You need it to counter the travel time. BUT change it to where the swarm launcher must maintain visual contact of the tank till missile impact or the missiles fly away wildly. This will do 2 things: First, it will allow tankers to grab cover from anti-armor weapons (tankers can by rounding a corner to get away from a forge gunner). Secondly, this will give tankers a chance to kill the duder lauching missiles at them in the first place (which they can also do vs forge gunners). VISUAL CONTACT
Notice i didnt say that missiles shouldnt be able to round corners. THEY SHOULD. If the swarm launcher is at a angle to where a tanker rounds a corner (maybe the swarm duder is up on a hill or in a tower) then they should hit. This is what would give swarms an advantege over a forge. Another advantege is that a swarm launcher can move freely as he attempts to keep the lock.
CONCLUSION This isnt a major change. Have peeps using swarm lauchers having to see the target from beginning to end. A small fix, for a big problem. |
Pent'noir
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
62
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
The ability to fire and forget is one of the key points of having a swarm launcher. The missiles are slow and don't do alot of dmg, but they will eventually reach their target if there isn't anything in the way. Also don't want to messup being able to lock then look straight up to fire, (they took that away once and put it back in after alot of tears). I'd be okay with greatly reducing movement speed while locking to match the forge, but don't like having to maintain a visual contact for the entire missile flight path. Our missiles are a dead give away of our location. Slow moving balls of yellow streaking across the sky tells everyone exactly where we are at. |
Busty M4rinara
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
17
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
Pent'noir wrote:The ability to fire and forget is one of the key points of having a swarm launcher. The missiles are slow and don't do alot of dmg, but they will eventually reach their target if there isn't anything in the way. Also don't want to messup being able to lock then look straight up to fire, (they took that away once and put it back in after alot of tears). I'd be okay with greatly reducing movement speed while locking to match the forge, but don't like having to maintain a visual contact for the entire missile flight path. Our missiles are a dead give away of our location. Slow moving balls of yellow streaking across the sky tells everyone exactly where we are at.
"A dead give away to our locations" That is the point. As a forge gunner, you are stationary and moving very slowly once your forge gun is charged. Tankers can at least defend themselves. "shoot and forget" is not the way to make any weapon. |
Vermaak 'Fatal' Kuvakei
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
151
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Busty M4rinara wrote:Pent'noir wrote:The ability to fire and forget is one of the key points of having a swarm launcher. The missiles are slow and don't do alot of dmg, but they will eventually reach their target if there isn't anything in the way. Also don't want to messup being able to lock then look straight up to fire, (they took that away once and put it back in after alot of tears). I'd be okay with greatly reducing movement speed while locking to match the forge, but don't like having to maintain a visual contact for the entire missile flight path. Our missiles are a dead give away of our location. Slow moving balls of yellow streaking across the sky tells everyone exactly where we are at. "A dead give away to our locations" That is the point. As a forge gunner, you are stationary and moving very slowly once your forge gun is charged. Tankers can at least defend themselves. "shoot and forget" is not the way to make any weapon. That's how quite a few real life weapon systems work, the point is that they're suited for guerrilla tactics, popping up and doing a small amount of damage while keeping the operator alive long enough to shoot again since they're already effective give aways to sais user's location. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think most tankers would be happy if in the least swarms didn't do 90 degree turns around hills to follow us into cover. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
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Posted - 2013.02.18 15:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
lol, I love you.
+1
Longer visual contact, I like it. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 15:42:00 -
[7] - Quote
Read my swarm thread here, a lot of good points on it, and this guys idea, pretty much solves it.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=59086&find=unread |
Coleman Gray
Coalition Of Goverments
47
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
People need to stop asking for AV weapons to be nerfed, why won't people be honest and just come out and say "I want my tank to be indestructible"
Swarm launcher missles may follow their locked on targets but their by all meaning of the word, stupid, they don't change course and most of the time simply run into obstructions and become ineffective.
I see why they get upset since they sink so much money into them. But lets face it, not much else is really an issue to tanks. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 16:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
Coleman Gray wrote:People need to stop asking for AV weapons to be nerfed, why won't people be honest and just come out and say "I want my tank to be indestructible"
Swarm launcher missles may follow their locked on targets but their by all meaning of the word, stupid, they don't change course and most of the time simply run into obstructions and become ineffective.
I see why they get upset since they sink so much money into them. But lets face it, not much else is really an issue to tanks.
Actually other things are a bigger issue.
Swarms are simply skill less and simplistic to use.
True noobtubes.
I hardly die from swarms, so not a real issue, but this game doesn't need auto aim anything.
And yes fool, they do change course. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2013.02.18 16:57:00 -
[10] - Quote
The tracking needs to be lowered in my opinion and the shot still displays 6 per firing and that needs to be addressed as the ramp up between low meta and high meta is far too much. Players getting shot don't have much in defenses. They need to severely lower the resupply rate of the swarm as well. |
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Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 17:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The tracking needs to be lowered in my opinion and the shot still displays 6 per firing and that needs to be addressed as the ramp up between low meta and high meta is far too much. Players getting shot don't have much in defenses. They need to severely lower the resupply rate of the swarm as well.
When the first set hits you, the other 3 are already in the air and coming most of the time.
And that's just from 1 guy. |
Octavian Vetiver
Dog Nation United Relativity Alliance
152
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
Except they haven't added any kind of ECM yet or possible anti-missile protection. Have they mentioned what any of that will entail? It'd be best to wait till they at least add ECM and whatever else they have planned for electronic warfare before really messing with too much. That's been kind of the issue with most things it seems like. Trying to balance everything out prior to adding any other weapons and EW systems. I'm still holding out or some kind of Hammer's Slammer's anti-missile claymore style systems. Burst out a bunch of ball bearings or at least have different ammo types. |
Y0UR NAME HERE
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
444
|
Posted - 2013.02.18 18:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Except they haven't added any kind of ECM yet or possible anti-missile protection. Have they mentioned what any of that will entail? It'd be best to wait till they at least add ECM and whatever else they have planned for electronic warfare before really messing with too much. That's been kind of the issue with most things it seems like. Trying to balance everything out prior to adding any other weapons and EW systems. I'm still holding out or some kind of Hammer's Slammer's anti-missile claymore style systems. Burst out a bunch of ball bearings or at least have different ammo types.
This is the best solution, but we both know its not anytime soontm. |
Busty M4rinara
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
17
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Posted - 2013.02.18 18:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Octavian Vetiver wrote:Except they haven't added any kind of ECM yet or possible anti-missile protection. Have they mentioned what any of that will entail? It'd be best to wait till they at least add ECM and whatever else they have planned for electronic warfare before really messing with too much. That's been kind of the issue with most things it seems like. Trying to balance everything out prior to adding any other weapons and EW systems. I'm still holding out or some kind of Hammer's Slammer's anti-missile claymore style systems. Burst out a bunch of ball bearings or at least have different ammo types.
ECM?! Its 10 months till christmas. |
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