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Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 18:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
I like the way this is coming together, but I still have a few reservations. It's the damn redzone that's the problem for me. It still makes the situation a little too polite, and doesn't allow for teams to take advantage of momentum and push forward while the enemy is still disorganized. I propose this as an alternate solution for the "hard redzone" this idea currently has: The Yellow Zone (Actual color open for debate)
As I said previously, the redzone should be delegated to the edge of the District. There shouldn't be anywhere on the map that one team can enter, but the other can't. So we add the Yellow Zone. The Yellow Zone indicates what areas the enemy team currently has control over. Friendly forces can still enter, and fight, inside the Yellow Zone as it would only indicate where the "Front Line" of the battle currently is. Commanders would only be able to deploy installations inside the areas that they actually control. This would then prevent Commanders from firing down friendly turrets behind enemy lines. Dropships, and characters with low profiles willing to go behind enemy lines and place drop uplinks, would become far more useful and effective than they currently are.
Objectives, once taken, would then open small pockets of "Friendly Territory" around them within a certain radius. Capture enough Objectives in that area, and that whole section of the map would then open up. This would allow for a player controlled, always shifting Front Line. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:I like the way this is coming together, but I still have a few reservations. It's the damn redzone that's the problem for me. It still makes the situation a little too polite, and doesn't allow for teams to take advantage of momentum and push forward while the enemy is still disorganized. I propose this as an alternate solution for the "hard redzone" this idea currently has: The Yellow Zone (Actual color open for debate)
As I said previously, the redzone should be delegated to the edge of the District. There shouldn't be anywhere on the map that one team can enter, but the other can't. So we add the Yellow Zone. The Yellow Zone indicates what areas the enemy team currently has control over. Friendly forces can still enter, and fight, inside the Yellow Zone as it would only indicate where the "Front Line" of the battle currently is. Commanders would only be able to deploy installations inside the areas that they actually control. This would then prevent Commanders from firing down friendly turrets behind enemy lines. Dropships, and characters with low profiles willing to go behind enemy lines and place drop uplinks, would become far more useful and effective than they currently are.
Objectives, once taken, would then open small pockets of "Friendly Territory" around them within a certain radius. Capture enough Objectives in that area, and that whole section of the map would then open up. This would allow for a player controlled, always shifting Front Line. Well, my thought as far as giving both sides time-out periods on the outside of a battle before it begins was based around trying to get good fights, rather than pushing forward so hard and fast that your enemy just decides to give up and leave. I wanted to try and avoid the way a lot of Skirmish matches end up right now, with the victor being decided in the first 5 minutes or less before the other team is redlined. |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:21:00 -
[33] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Well, my thought as far as giving both sides time-out periods on the outside of a battle before it begins was based around trying to get good fights, rather than pushing forward so hard and fast that your enemy just decides to give up and leave. I wanted to try and avoid the way a lot of Skirmish matches end up right now, with the victor being decided in the first 5 minutes or less before the other team is redlined.
I agree to a point, but remember that most Pub Matches are filled with individuals. Every time that I've either seen or heard of a match being redlined early, was because of team work. One team, using squads and communication (usually Corps), while the other team tried to Lone Wolf it. It's the difference between an organized military and a disorganized militia.
New Eden is an unforgiving place, and if you want to keep what's yours, or expand upon what you already have, every person on these forums will tell you exactly what you need to do in two words: Get Good.
Corps that can bring superior firepower, tactics, and strategy to a fight (not to mention baseline player skill) will always be at an advantage. And should be, in my opinion. Balance in FW means that if your Corp can't cut it on it's own, you can always ask other Corps for help.
And the advantage will always be to the Defender. They have unlimited clones (I still say they should have to pay for them), and a larger area under their control at the start of the fight. Giving the attacking team a chance to go behind enemy lines balances that equation. The defending team can be setting up installations and deploying troops to halt enemy forces, while the attacking team can be sending in "black ops" teams to knock out/capture objectives. A game that is based on skill (as this one is) should have battles that are decided with skill. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:27:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Well, my thought as far as giving both sides time-out periods on the outside of a battle before it begins was based around trying to get good fights, rather than pushing forward so hard and fast that your enemy just decides to give up and leave. I wanted to try and avoid the way a lot of Skirmish matches end up right now, with the victor being decided in the first 5 minutes or less before the other team is redlined. I agree to a point, but remember that most Pub Matches are filled with individuals. Every time that I've either seen or heard of a match being redlined early, was because of team work. One team, using squads and communication (usually Corps), while the other team tried to Lone Wolf it. It's the difference between an organized military and a disorganized militia. New Eden is an unforgiving place, and if you want to keep what's yours, or expand upon what you already have, every person on these forums will tell you exactly what you need to do in two words: Get Good. Corps that can bring superior firepower, tactics, and strategy to a fight (not to mention baseline player skill) will always be at an advantage. And should be, in my opinion. Balance in FW means that if your Corp can't cut it on it's own, you can always ask other Corps for help. And the advantage will always be to the Defender. They have unlimited clones (I still say they should have to pay for them), and a larger area under their control at the start of the fight. Giving the attacking team a chance to go behind enemy lines balances that equation. The defending team can be setting up installations and deploying troops to halt enemy forces, while the attacking team can be sending in "black ops" teams to knock out/capture objectives. A game that is based on skill (as this one is) should have battles that are decided with skill. Rather than individual clones, since Biomass is actually an existing item in the EVE universe, I think you'll see its production start to become more important. Since our clone bodies are standardized for the most part, you would consume a certain quantity of biomass per clone, and the MCC or ground installation would only have a certain amount. This creates market demand for biomass, and encourages the defender to fight hard, but not to fight like my Planetside 2 outfit and "drown them in a sea of bodies". |
jenza aranda
BetaMax.
1005
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:31:00 -
[35] - Quote
can't wait for jets :D cant wait to see how they work! |
Hagintora
Chatelain Rapid Response Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:35:00 -
[36] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Rather than individual clones, since Biomass is actually an existing item in the EVE universe, I think you'll see its production start to become more important. Since our clone bodies are standardized for the most part, you would consume a certain quantity of biomass per clone, and the MCC or ground installation would only have a certain amount. This creates market demand for biomass, and encourages the defender to fight hard, but not to fight like my Planetside 2 outfit and "drown them in a sea of bodies".
And another avenue for Dust to effect EVE's economy, I like it. So the defenders would pay for Biomass as they go, and the Attackers would have to bring Biomass with them? This would make it difficult for even super rich Corps to swarm large sections of space. I find this acceptable. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2013.02.19 19:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Rather than individual clones, since Biomass is actually an existing item in the EVE universe, I think you'll see its production start to become more important. Since our clone bodies are standardized for the most part, you would consume a certain quantity of biomass per clone, and the MCC or ground installation would only have a certain amount. This creates market demand for biomass, and encourages the defender to fight hard, but not to fight like my Planetside 2 outfit and "drown them in a sea of bodies". And another avenue for Dust to effect EVE's economy, I like it. So the defenders would pay for Biomass as they go, and the Attackers would have to bring Biomass with them? This would make it difficult for even super rich Corps to swarm large sections of space. I find this acceptable. I was thinking more that you pay to fill the biomass holding tanks in a facility or MCC before going into a fight, similar to putting ammo in your cargohold in EVE. Having to worry about paying for biomass in a match would be very distracting and not very practical, but having to replenish your stores between battles provides, as you reinforced, another means of economic interaction between Dust and EVE. |
Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 02:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
Hagintora wrote:I like the way this is coming together, but I still have a few reservations. It's the damn redzone that's the problem for me. It still makes the situation a little too polite, and doesn't allow for teams to take advantage of momentum and push forward while the enemy is still disorganized. I propose this as an alternate solution for the "hard redzone" this idea currently has: The Yellow Zone (Actual color open for debate)
As I said previously, the redzone should be delegated to the edge of the District. There shouldn't be anywhere on the map that one team can enter, but the other can't. So we add the Yellow Zone. The Yellow Zone indicates what areas the enemy team currently has control over. Friendly forces can still enter, and fight, inside the Yellow Zone as it would only indicate where the "Front Line" of the battle currently is. Commanders would only be able to deploy installations inside the areas that they actually control. This would then prevent Commanders from firing down friendly turrets behind enemy lines. Dropships, and characters with low profiles willing to go behind enemy lines and place drop uplinks, would become far more useful and effective than they currently are.
Objectives, once taken, would then open small pockets of "Friendly Territory" around them within a certain radius. Capture enough Objectives in that area, and that whole section of the map would then open up. This would allow for a player controlled, always shifting Front Line. Awesome Idea, But who says this is where the Enemy Territory Ends and this is where ours begins? Will we base this off objectives held or have the Commander decide where is a Safe area for his team? Awesome Idea, but The "How do I do this?" That the Devs will have to answer will lengthen any suggestion we make time to enter the game |
Meeko Fent
Kinsho Swords Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 02:44:00 -
[39] - Quote
Mobius Wyvern wrote:Hagintora wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Rather than individual clones, since Biomass is actually an existing item in the EVE universe, I think you'll see its production start to become more important. Since our clone bodies are standardized for the most part, you would consume a certain quantity of biomass per clone, and the MCC or ground installation would only have a certain amount. This creates market demand for biomass, and encourages the defender to fight hard, but not to fight like my Planetside 2 outfit and "drown them in a sea of bodies". And another avenue for Dust to effect EVE's economy, I like it. So the defenders would pay for Biomass as they go, and the Attackers would have to bring Biomass with them? This would make it difficult for even super rich Corps to swarm large sections of space. I find this acceptable. I was thinking more that you pay to fill the biomass holding tanks in a facility or MCC before going into a fight, similar to putting ammo in your cargohold in EVE. Having to worry about paying for biomass in a match would be very distracting and not very practical, but having to replenish your stores between battles provides, as you reinforced, another means of economic interaction between Dust and EVE. So the character I do battle in is simply a Jello of Biomass held together by my armor? Strange Concept. I was thinking, Clone Manufacturing corp Makes Clones out off Biomass. Biomass comes from... NPC's? I think M Idea is good, just haven't a clue where the Original Material comes from.... |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2013.02.20 12:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Hagintora wrote:Mobius Wyvern wrote:Rather than individual clones, since Biomass is actually an existing item in the EVE universe, I think you'll see its production start to become more important. Since our clone bodies are standardized for the most part, you would consume a certain quantity of biomass per clone, and the MCC or ground installation would only have a certain amount. This creates market demand for biomass, and encourages the defender to fight hard, but not to fight like my Planetside 2 outfit and "drown them in a sea of bodies". And another avenue for Dust to effect EVE's economy, I like it. So the defenders would pay for Biomass as they go, and the Attackers would have to bring Biomass with them? This would make it difficult for even super rich Corps to swarm large sections of space. I find this acceptable. I was thinking more that you pay to fill the biomass holding tanks in a facility or MCC before going into a fight, similar to putting ammo in your cargohold in EVE. Having to worry about paying for biomass in a match would be very distracting and not very practical, but having to replenish your stores between battles provides, as you reinforced, another means of economic interaction between Dust and EVE. So the character I do battle in is simply a Jello of Biomass held together by my armor? Strange Concept. I was thinking, Clone Manufacturing corp Makes Clones out off Biomass. Biomass comes from... NPC's? I think M Idea is good, just haven't a clue where the Original Material comes from.... Well no, its just that the biomass is used to build your character. For reference, think of the scene where they're putting Milla Jovovich back together with that machine in The Fifth Element. That's how I've always thought of it.
Oh, and the stuff comes from facilities like the one we could fight over in Replication, and from EVE players biomassing their characters. (The screaming noise they make is amusing.) |
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Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 15:24:00 -
[41] - Quote
I'm happy to see so many constructive additions to our original discussion. Brings back faith in the forum community. :) |
XtoTheS
Forgotten Militia
1
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 17:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
The idea of having a larger scale battle field intrigues me. It would allow a longer on going match to fight over an area, district, planet. Like the mercenary battle section in the game, corporations on even can disperse their squadron of ships to the location and settle in. Then they can put in contracts for anyone to join in and fight for the land or to protect it. I know this is an option CCP is working to infuse into game play, choosing sides. This would eliminate the lack of surprise some of you mentioned. Again, it would allow mercs to choose which side they want to participate with. Allowing more flexibility to play over a larger scale area.
When it comes to deploying mercs and the MCC. I would say remove the MCC and use more of a merc transport ship or smaller ships that can engage battle. Like fighter jets, drop ships etc. When a battle starts all mercs will start from the transport ship and jump to the ground, or have a space jump. We all know that it can be done since it has happened a few times in our own real time history. Involve the Eve players by allowing confrontations in space. I am not familiar with Eve so I am not sure how that would work. I am guessing they have a similar layout to engage in battle.
When it comes to taking the first locations objectives the winning team can stay on the ground and wait for the opposing side to reset and start from the next objective, like falling back into defensive mode. Then the team can move forward and attack. Each map would have points of interest for each side to reach and hold to be able to have an advantage. Having a timer set for how long these objectives are held would allow certain perks like OBS strikes or jets/drop ships to be used to counter or push back to gain an objective. Allowing Eve players to be more involved in ground campaigns than just orbital strikes.
I cant think of anything else, but when I do I will add my 2 isk. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2013.02.21 23:04:00 -
[43] - Quote
XtoTheS wrote:The idea of having a larger scale battle field intrigues me. It would allow a longer on going match to fight over an area, district, planet. Like the mercenary battle section in the game, corporations on even can disperse their squadron of ships to the location and settle in. Then they can put in contracts for anyone to join in and fight for the land or to protect it. I know this is an option CCP is working to infuse into game play, choosing sides. This would eliminate the lack of surprise some of you mentioned. Again, it would allow mercs to choose which side they want to participate with. Allowing more flexibility to play over a larger scale area.
When it comes to deploying mercs and the MCC. I would say remove the MCC and use more of a merc transport ship or smaller ships that can engage battle. Like fighter jets, drop ships etc. When a battle starts all mercs will start from the transport ship and jump to the ground, or have a space jump. We all know that it can be done since it has happened a few times in our own real time history. Involve the Eve players by allowing confrontations in space. I am not familiar with Eve so I am not sure how that would work. I am guessing they have a similar layout to engage in battle.
When it comes to taking the first locations objectives the winning team can stay on the ground and wait for the opposing side to reset and start from the next objective, like falling back into defensive mode. Then the team can move forward and attack. Each map would have points of interest for each side to reach and hold to be able to have an advantage. Having a timer set for how long these objectives are held would allow certain perks like OBS strikes or jets/drop ships to be used to counter or push back to gain an objective. Allowing Eve players to be more involved in ground campaigns than just orbital strikes.
I cant think of anything else, but when I do I will add my 2 isk. Honestly, I really think the MCCs are the better idea. Part of the reason you still find so many Titan Mode servers in BF2142 to this day is because of how popular the mode is. One of the better parts of it was the ability of the Commander to control the position of the MCC, allowing it to serve as on-map artillery support. Besides, part of the reasoning behind the MCC is that it serves as the means for carrying our vehicles, and is where our vehicles deploy from.
I know some people have said things about vehicles coming from the Warbarge, but that make literally no sense considering that the RDVs carry vehicles underneath them with no form of shielding, and the delivery time for vehicles is only 15 seconds, which makes perfect sense when considering the MCC as the carrier, but would be impossible to explain for a Warbarge even in ELO (extreme-low orbit). |
Kitten Commander
Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation
187
|
Posted - 2013.04.19 17:13:00 -
[44] - Quote
Wow, Ive missed so much the past couple days. Great ideas guys.
I am all for spacing out maps so that strategy and the RTS side of things comes more into play. By spacing it out you:
- Make vehicles that much more important in terms of strategy and placement - A true strategy needs to be developed as to which objectives are taken and when. More formal battle. - Allows for bigger and better things such as the vehicles we saw in the concept art thread.
This is obviously possible if you have seen how incredibly large the terrain map is for Manus peak. Opening that up fully would be amazing. |
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