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Broken Guardian/Orbital mechanic?

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Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:47:00 - [1] - Quote If you put a defend order on yourself and when you order an OB, do you get extra points? Also do you get guardian points for each logi that is repairing you while you get these kills? It makes me wonder, if you have 3 people repairing you while you do the OB how many do you get? +35 for guardian, +50 for kill, +10 for squad leader bonus per kill? +7 per guardian squad bonus per person repairing?... depending on if you can have multiple logis getting guardian (up to 3), you could potentially get +186 per kill...in a 6 man squad...!?!? In a 6 man squad, if this all would work, you could basically chain orbitals if you could get 9 or 10 per strike...
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:49:00 - [2] - Quote As far as I know, SLs don't actually get the bonuses from any of the orders when they perform actions that would give them points...only when squadmates earn bonus points do the SLs get them (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO to gain extra points). I may be wrong, but I never get points from staying in the FRAGO when I'm an SL...
C Saunders Serenity Prime Kraken. 158	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:50:00 - [3] - Quote Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any squad order gives the squad leader points.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:52:00 - [4] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: As far as I know, SLs don't actually get the bonuses from any of the orders when they perform actions that would give them points...only when squadmates earn bonus points do the SLs get them (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO to gain extra points). I may be wrong, but I never get points from staying in the FRAGO when I'm an SL... So that is still -10 per kill then and -7 for the guardian points, but if multiple people can get guardian points from the same person...is that OP?
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:52:00 - [5] - Quote SL doesn't get extra points for doing something. Only get Points for others doing it.
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:53:00 - [6] - Quote C Saunders wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any squad order gives the squad leader points. I think you mean, and are right, if you are saying that squad leaders cannot get commendation points for their own actions.
C Saunders Serenity Prime Kraken. 158	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:58:00 - [7] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: C Saunders wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any squad order gives the squad leader points. I think you mean, and are right, if you are saying that squad leaders cannot get commendation points for their own actions. That's what I meant
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.02.15 18:58:00 - [8] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: C Saunders wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any squad order gives the squad leader points. I think you mean, and are right, if you are saying that squad leaders cannot get commendation points for their own actions. No, they get no points. The SLs are there to LEAD their squadmates. They get the bonus points when their squadmates do, and only when their squadmates do. The orders are teamwork orders, to encourage their squads to do what would benefit the team as a whole (assuming the SL is doing that in the first place...)
Beren Hurin OMNI Endeavors 183	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:09:00 - [9] - Quote I'm still waiting to see if more than one person can get guardian points...
General Erick Onslaught Inc 24	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:46:00 - [10] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO) I know I am way late on this, but what does FRAGO stand for?

Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:49:00 - [11] - Quote General Erick wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO) I know I am way late on this, but what does FRAGO stand for? Fragmentary Order. Also multiple people can get Guardian points, so there are means to earn a significant amount of WP if you set it up right...however it's difficult to do so I dont realy consider it OP. Also I suppose you could chain OBs together if you get 9-10 kills per OB, but its rare that you get 9-10 kills normally, much less do it consistently. Also not sure if Guardian points works for OBs, certainly worth trying out.
Phoenix Archer 128 Better Hide R Die 89	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:52:00 - [12] - Quote General Erick wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO) I know I am way late on this, but what does FRAGO stand for? Sorry, MAG lingo...its Fragmentary Orders...SLs would FRAGO an objective (not a person) and as long as you were within ~20m you'd get double points for any action that earned points...SLs included. (just a quick clip with some... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXyUUzcZVb0 ). The FRAGOed objective would get a square around it and would sit around the screen's edges for everyone in the squad. Generally, on defense you'd FRAGO your bunker (or wherever your squad hung out at) to maximize points, and on attack you'd FRAGO wherever everyone is or where they should go...and most SLs (OK, nearly all) would quickly FRAGO something they planted on (or if a squadmate asked for it...) to get a bunch of extra points.
Junko Mori OMNI Endeavors 1	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:56:00 - [13] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: If you put a defend order on yourself and when you order an OB, do you get extra points? Also do you get guardian points for each logi that is repairing you while you get these kills? It makes me wonder, if you have 3 people repairing you while you do the OB how many do you get? +35 for guardian, +50 for kill, +10 for squad leader bonus per kill? +7 per guardian squad bonus per person repairing?... depending on if you can have multiple logis getting guardian (up to 3), you could potentially get +186 per kill...in a 6 man squad...!?!? In a 6 man squad, if this all would work, you could basically chain orbitals if you could get 9 or 10 per strike... Hi beren :) I actually was repairing dijad as he OBed some peeps i got guardian 45 points *35+10 from defense order i think but yeah you can get guardian with ob
General Erick Onslaught Inc 24	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:56:00 - [14] - Quote Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: General Erick wrote: Phoenix Archer 128 wrote: (so, you need your squadmates to be in the FRAGO) I know I am way late on this, but what does FRAGO stand for? Sorry, MAG lingo...its Fragmentary Orders...SLs would FRAGO an objective (not a person) and as long as you were within ~20m you'd get double points for any action that earned points...SLs included. (just a quick clip with some... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXyUUzcZVb0 ). The FRAGOed objective would get a square around it and would sit around the screen's edges for everyone in the squad. Generally, on defense you'd FRAGO your bunker (or wherever your squad hung out at) to maximize points, and on attack you'd FRAGO wherever everyone is or where they should go...and most SLs (OK, nearly all) would quickly FRAGO something they planted on (or if a squadmate asked for it...) to get a bunch of extra points. I have played MAG and I know what it does, I just never knew what it stood for.
Wigglen Tallywacker ZionTCD Legacy Rising 5	Posted - 2013.02.15 19:59:00 - [15] - Quote The squad leader gets no extra points for their efforts in a match because of a defend order only the squad mates around them do I know this because I'm squad leader 90% of the time and you would only get maybe 12 points for a guardian commission. I may be wrong on the amount but its not much
THUNDERGROOVE ZionTCD Legacy Rising 33	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:20:00 - [16] - Quote I don't see this as an issue since most squad leaders are too incompetent to place orders. If a squad is smart enough about it then they deserve the WP and OB's. The game, at it's core is about teamwork. Why else would people who squad up a lot almost always win?
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 583	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:23:00 - [17] - Quote I rather like the FRAGO system in Dust, I think it encourages squad leaders to place smart FRAGOs to optimize WP production for not only himself but the team as well. Because the SL doesn't get any additional points unless his squad mates actually perform the FRAGO, it encourages actual communication and teamwork amongst the group.
Keyser Soze VerbalKint IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback 77	Posted - 2013.02.15 20:35:00 - [18] - Quote I address the OP a bit further down but this needed to be in here as well. I bolded and underlined my address to the OP so feel free to skip if this isn't something you want to read. This has been repeated multiple times already but support WP should not function on a constant but should be correlated to meta level of the equipment used with Miltia offering the lowest WP gain and proto offering the largest WP gain. This of course requires both a reduction in current WP gains and then a meaningful adjustment stepwise. For me it would be like this. Injectors Miltia=35 WP Std=45 WP Adv=60WP Proto=70-80WP its may seem low for a proto injector but with squad bonuses being 20% on top that adds up fast. Rep tools Miltia= 10 triage, 15 Guardian Std=15, 20 Guardian(level 2 though still std has variant that make sense from a tactical standpoint and that is the reward in itself) Adv= 20, 35 Proto=35, 50-75 Hives Miltia=5 pts on resupply Std=10pts on resupply Adv=12-15 Proto=20 Uplinks Miltia=10 Std=15 Adv=25 Proto=30-40. So you can see most of my numbers adjust so that the advanced variants pay the current levels of WP while proto gives a meaningful bump and std offers at least a decent number. Also given the X WP in Y time equation it still gives players a chance but better gear will let them hit the cap a bit quicker and more cosistently and still earn WP over time. However it could break that algorithm if the numbers at the lower gear level are so low that they never hit the cap in the equation but maintain a steady stream of WP over time in which case lower gear could theoretically earn you more WP over the duration of the match. A possible solution to this is to enforce different caps based on "collective meta level of equipment" this way it doesnt have to account for the variety of all the gear but that could then be gamed by creating an artificial meta level with appropriately selected equipment but the tool that will give you the most WP(the injector can be of a cheaper variety and still earn proto level type WP) anyway its food for thought now on to addressing the OP. It is most certainly possible to get Guardian points from OB's. Getting SL commission on the other hand i believe you can't. That said only the primary or first person to place the rep tool on an individual can get the guardian points to the best of my recollection, its possible multiple people can get it but i dont recall it ever occuring but its possible i simply hit the WP cap by the time the person got the kill. Simplest test i can think of is get 3 logi's on a squad and rep the 4th and see if everyone gets triage points for repping the same person and then have them perform a kill and see if all get guardian. Now with regards to SL commission they only work when on activities you squadmates perform on actions that don't involve you or your assests for instance placing a defend order on yourself or your own tank wont net you commission points for squad actions but they will earn the appropriate bonus for having done the action. So knowing this a SL can place defend order on themselves and a repair tool placed on them will earn them guardian points plus 10 points for successfully excuting the defend order. Keep in mind this retains balance because there is a WP cap of nobody knows the exact numbers though ive postulated an estimate. But in chromosome patch notes it clearly states that if a person earns X WP in Y timeframe there is a Z(i added the z) cooldown period in which the person CAN'T earn anymore WP from logi related functions(triage, guardian, and i think revive and resupply as well, basically all support related WP's are factored into this equation). So while it may a nice way to get WPs it hardly throws the game out of balance as i can equally go running around doing support stuff and achieve the same result albeit perhaps with a minor amount of more difficulty. Now I personally think the cap is a bit too low, my estimate is 200-250 pts within 15-20s initiates the cooldown.. Really the only way to test it is to take a stop watch and rep a heavy and time it from start of first triage to last triage. I think the WP cap needs to be increased slightly by like 50-100 WP but keep the timeframe if it is 15-20s and maintain the cooldown which i also have no idea what it is, but am also going to try to figure out.


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