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TANK BALANCE PROBLEM

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KU TT Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.02.03 12:52:00 - [1] - Quote Quote: This post has been requested to post by GM Avantgarde CCP Customer Support There is a big problem with the balance when playing a tank. First of all im not a noob i know how to play with a Tank and fully understand its role on the battlefield. The problems are: 1: The FREE swarmlauncher from the ANTI ARMOR STARTERKIT is to powerfull, 2: It should be impossible to destroy a tank with a grenade 3: Tanks should have difference in armor thickness between front side and rear. PROBLEM 1: Its very frustrated when i spawn a tank an upgraded SOMA with modules that upgrade its armor to 4500 and reduce damege with 10% (worth almost 200.000 ISK) AND some noob runs towards you with a starter kitt swarmlauncher and utterly destroys you in a few SHOTS... Yes sometimes cover helps but theres not always cover within reach and i dont rush a tank in the middle of enemy territory. Those swarmlaunchers do 300 damage x4 per shot and have homing missiles if they have a ssupply depot or two guys with this weapon youre SCREWED!! THIS FEELS REALLY UNFAIR! I often find myself running like a baby when those weapons shows up. Eeven when you play like a *** and stay behind this is a real problem. PROBLEM 2: Sometimes ive been destroyed by grenades WTF destroy a tank with simply throwing a few grenades towards is really sucks. PROBLEM 3: If you see a SOMA you can see its armor is on the sides but in the game it makes no difference when you hit the turret, rear front or side of it so that kind of tactical play where you think about how you place youre tank doesnt mean any difference. If you agree with me please subscribe... or LIKE this post Quote: Please no kids replys like this Stefan Stahl below "youre noob im god" reply**
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 25	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:01:00 - [2] - Quote A good tanker turns any game into an instant red-line, a bad tanker complains on the forums about swarm launchers.
pegasis prime The Shadow Cavalry Mercenaries 81	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:06:00 - [3] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: A good tanker turns any game into an instant red-line, a bad tanker complains on the forums about swarm launchers. Have to resist ' Dont feed the trole.
KU TT Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 8	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:15:00 - [4] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: A good tanker turns any game into an instant red-line, a bad tanker complains on the forums about swarm launchers. Well really ive could expected this... hahaha sorry no noob tankdriver here Just trying to improve the game If you dont or do agree just leave a real reply....
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2013.02.03 13:38:00 - [5] - Quote Disagree. The problem is you are using a militia tank... So ofcource militia swarms will kill you. Also.. The grenades that are killing you are AV grenades... AV stands for Anti Vehicle. Sooo get a better tank.. Edit 1: the free swarm launcher can only shoot 2 volleys before reloading. If you can't get out of danger even after your repper is on cool down... You need to position your self better. I doubt you are getting solo'd by a single militia swarm fit.
Vyzion Eyri The Southern Legion 155	Posted - 2013.02.03 14:01:00 - [6] - Quote You may understand how to use a tank, but does your team know how to act when you call one in? Mercs on the ground are what keeps your tank alive. They can easily take out militia swarm launchers; won't even get fired back at. They can easily keep AV grenadiers off you; there is a range to the throw. If you play with a team that understands the value of a tank, you won't lose it.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2013.02.03 14:15:00 - [7] - Quote i disagree i have a malita soma and its got 5k armor with 20% resist 1.4k shields with 10% resist once shields are down it takes 4-5 hits to blow its armor if i forget to put on the repper i switch the repper on and retreat once im in cover let the repper cooldown and the shields regen rinse and repeat granted im not the best tank driver in the game but can make the tank last all match there are alot of peeps that know what there doing and run lots of AV i die faster to AV nade spam it takes 3-4 av nades to kill me without repper running hate when blueberry gunners dont jump out to get rid of the guy with the swarm launcher thats right next to my tank the amount of times ive had to do this myself
Nazz'Dragg FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED TACNET 6	Posted - 2013.02.03 14:38:00 - [8] - Quote snipped personal attacks - CCP Eterne Going into a heavy built up area with a tank is asking for trouble. If you stay out on the plains where you belong, not only will you have a clear view so no one can sneak up on you, your also bee able to shoot at people from miles away.
Vir Sigvaldt RED COLONIAL MARINES Covert Intervention 20	Posted - 2013.02.03 15:16:00 - [9] - Quote I'm more agitated with the installations than the swarm launchers myself... They seem to wait until you're out in the open so you can't back away before they open fire on you and you're dead before you even realize where they are on the map. I've even had a railgun installation pull a few "thread the needle" shots through the city entrance and then between two large terrain objects and around a wall corner to take my tank and and leave me scratching my head looking for the railgun that blew my tank. Take a bad turn and you lost your tank faster than five people with militia swarm launchers could ever hope to do. Honestly, swarm launchers aren't too much of a threat if you're careful with the tank, at least the militia ones because they spend about a third of their team reloading and another half trying to lock on which leaves them out in the open. Just stick to the close quarters areas like inside the little cities. Someone fires a swarm at you, back around a corner and they lose sight of you. Out in the open makes a dead tank. If I lose a tank, I just switch to AV to make sure they don't have any vehicles. As an AV player, I can't take any tank down through a wall or corner and I'm usually too far away to just walk around the corner anyways, smart tank drivers always give themselves an escape route to go full reverse down when things get hot and repair your armor and recharge your shields. That, and they keep friends around to kill or at least harass anyone trying to lock on with a swarm launcher.
Leon Angelus Coalition Of Goverments 0	Posted - 2013.02.03 15:24:00 - [10] - Quote I see where your coming from, I've spent like 330k on a tank only to have it destroyed easily by anti tank weapons and I admit I'm never pleased about it. I agree a swarm launcher shouldn't be so effective unless you are skilled in it, feels unfair anyone can pick up a swarm launcher and become a tank killing machine but at the same time Swarm launchers can only shoot at vehicles and buildings, if they wasn't good at that, then it would be a pointless weapon.

Tregar Kerrigan Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 36	Posted - 2013.02.03 16:48:00 - [11] - Quote Perhaps you should get a better tank. My squad commander calls in his blaster tank with 6000+ armor hitpoints and the super powerful active armor rep, and we have gone multiple matches where all we did was cruise from point to point murdering everyone who tried to kill us. When using a tank, it seems you need to pick you map very carefully. Open maps, you're going to see a lot of forge gun heavies, as they need to extended range. On closer quarters maps, the tank shines, because people have to make a tradeoff. Either they refit to anti armor, and die to the infantry support, or gear up for anti infantry, and get mauled by the tank. As long as you use it intelligently, the tank will be your best friend, otherwise it is just a huge ISK sink.
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:24:00 - [12] - Quote You think that's bad? Wait until you meet a proto-swarm with 3+ damage mods. Tanks are only truly useful for pubstomping vs newbies. Vets know how to take them down solo easily, sometimes without even SP investment.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:25:00 - [13] - Quote Oh No, his 200 K tank died. Sucks bro. Grab a million ISK tank to push those 30+ kill games easily.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:25:00 - [14] - Quote Noc Tempre wrote: You think that's bad? Wait until you meet a proto-swarm with 3+ damage mods. Tanks are only truly useful for pubstomping vs newbies. Vets know how to take them down solo easily, sometimes without even SP investment. Actually, unless you have a proto logi, you can't use 3+ damage mods. At best two, and if you have proto swarms, you're probably lacking in other areas.
Snagman 313 Carbon 7 41	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:27:00 - [15] - Quote I'm afraid your biggest problem is the TYPE of tank you are currently running. Most of us AV boys know about the different damage types and switch in and out of FG and SL fits to suit. In your Armour tank Soma SL's will always rip you a new one as well as AV genades because they have a explosive damage bonus against armour. Against Shield tanks I always field a FG because it does more damage as shields have an inbuilt reduction on explosive damage. Also if you are close enough to be hit by AV nades you are too close plain and simple. Blasters have easily 80-100m range depending on model and the others are even longer. I would look to shield tanks if I were you and get out of militia, but you need to be vigilant of you surroundings as being surrounded or flanked is almost certain death to a tank. That's all the info I will give you just now as if I give up too much I'll be shooting myself in the foot. Regards Snag
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:43:00 - [16] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Noc Tempre wrote: You think that's bad? Wait until you meet a proto-swarm with 3+ damage mods. Tanks are only truly useful for pubstomping vs newbies. Vets know how to take them down solo easily, sometimes without even SP investment. Actually, unless you have a proto logi, you can't use 3+ damage mods. At best two, and if you have proto swarms, you're probably lacking in other areas. A series assault is my personal choice for 3 damage mods. You can still fit a decent SMG, AV grenades, and nanohives.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 434	Posted - 2013.02.03 17:57:00 - [17] - Quote KU TT wrote: Its very frustrated when i spawn a tank an upgraded SOMA with modules that upgrade its armor to 4500 and reduce damege with 10% (worth almost 200.000 ISK) I'm going to be very honest. It's the tank not AV. Soma's are militia grade and are paper tissue next to the tier above. Also, the base cost of a Soma is somewhere like 130 K and you only have enough modules and upgrades to make it work 200 K. It's the tank fitting not the AV. My Myron can take more than 3 MLT shots why can't your tank? On the thing about AV Nades, they at least have to spec into an expensive skill to get acccess to them. My Methana took an AV nade from Free Healing and Survived (thing had 2,100 in armor + resistance). The problem is your tank fitting. My LAV cost upwards of 180K My Myron costs 385 K. Your HAV cost 200K. No offense, but it's time to upgrade.
Sir Meode Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 318	Posted - 2013.02.03 18:26:00 - [18] - Quote The problem is not that AV is too OP but that HAV are crap
Keira-Stormborn Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 3	Posted - 2013.02.03 18:56:00 - [19] - Quote I agree with OP. The noob starter kit with free launcher is enough to take out tanks easily, some a bit more than others but all easily. They are big and slow, where you hit them doesn't seem to matter and if you aren't a complete fool you can easy position yourself where you can lock on and shoot a tank without much threat to yourself. Expensive tank vs free noob launcher....no balance to this. Launcher shouldn't be a free noob kit weapon.
Jax Thrife L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 1	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:28:00 - [20] - Quote I wish they would come out with more variants of tanks and all vehicles. That being said, while I agree that MLT swarm launchers are a ***** I wouldnt minds seeing more types of AV weaponry and I would like to see more Lv.4-5 modules based on skills. Dont want to change the dmg to swarms, fine give modules that give +5000 armor especially if armor tanks plates are going to have a stacking penalty

Jax Thrife L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 1	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:34:00 - [21] - Quote I hope you saw the relevency in my post in add more types of tanks so players arent forced to use 3 for both types. Im also talking about tanks that are full support tanks like a tank that has 5high n low slots but it uses 3-4 gunner turrets instead of having a larg turret. And next time look at the name of the person who shot you with militia swarms weaponry lv5 sharpshoot op/pro lv5 and swamr launcher op/pro goes a long ways
Breakin Stuff Immobile Infantry 680	Posted - 2013.02.05 11:56:00 - [22] - Quote OP its your tank and your tactics(ok, very likely your tactics) Your militia soma fit you describe I can destroy in under 9 seconds with an assault forge gun. likely with no more than two shots. I routinely kill soma and i think the caldari one is the sica. Both are training wheels for tank drivers, not main battle tanks. You want to upgrade to madrugar and surya ASAP with prerequisitely skilled modules. Dont be a cheapass here or guys like me eat you. Second, always have an escape route. The moment a forge shell or swarm shot hits armor on a soma you have about six seconds to kill that butthead, or GTFO. Drive your merry ass to a safe spot and repair. NEVER SIT STILL FOR LONGER THAN IT TAKES TO FIRE THE MAIN CANNON A FEW TIMES! If you sit like you think you are invulnerable you draw swarms, forges and AV nades like a turd draws flies. I have lost at least 20 tanks, both 5k hp soma and 6k hp madrugars to getting caught in tight places, overestimating my repair units efficiency or just not having an escape plan that didnt depend on pulling a dukes of hazzard in an HAV and landing on a redberry.
Mortal Maximus KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 8	Posted - 2013.02.05 12:55:00 - [23] - Quote ^ I totally agree with this guys, its probably your tactics. I use soma but only get deystroyed when i can't escape cuz i'm trapped :3
Gunner Nightingale Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 217	Posted - 2013.02.05 14:09:00 - [24] - Quote All i heard was i use a SOMA. Also not to be rude but if your SOMA is 200k i already know its a paper weight, my soma cost 380K and my Sica cost 455K Ive built them up properly and invested a modest 300K SP in tanking related skills to get it to where it needs be. That said it doesnt mean i expect to survive long if im not constantly moving. Getting close to a group of infantry is nearly a death sentence if you dont have competent turret operators(will actually hop out and mop up remaining infantry). I mean good turret operators work with me in unison PRIORITISING ENEMIES FG/SL/AV before everything else. Moreover its knowing how the two AV weapons work and knowing how to counter them. I grant you if an entire team switched over to starter AV i'd probably die a lot faster but most wont even bother. Even then its about moving quickly and maintaining distance from threats and using your turrets to your advantage. But knowing that SL have lock on i know that i have time to shoot them down before they get their shot off. Moreover everyone should be focusing on it. I however dont take on multiple SL at close range instead i keep distance and try to hide around objects/corner that would collide with the swarms if i move away. FG are different, part of the problem with FG is that because they do splash you can't get a direction on where they are shooting you from, add to this that the sound profile of FG shots is next to impossible to determine direction on a surround sound system(ive tested vigorously) However the key again is good infantry support who are looking out for the FGer and then its a matter of killing them quick(FG players are very vulnerable to infantry attack and need to pounce as soon as they are spotted on the field). As for AV nades biggest problem with them is the homing feature and how quickly nades can be quicktossed in rapid succession. That said if you allow your tank to get that close to enemy infantry then it was on you, it is rare that the opposite happens where the infantry closed in on you unless you just werent paying attention. Infantry with AV nades are best handled by infantry suppport. I agree that really starter fits shouldnt exist beyond the one based on chosen class. The reason i say this is because most of the starter fit weaponry is available for purchase in the market as MILITIA gear. We need to stop handholding the playerbase. I dont have any points in heavy, didnt stop me from creating a miltia FG fitting. There are imbalance between AV and tanks but really its at the proto level, not the militia level. Moreso adv/pro tanks to need a slight buff as i feel they do fall too easily to solo FG/SL because of the imbalance. (also until dmg mods are fixed it will be difficult to assess if it is the mods that are confounding the issues). And really tanking is not nor should it be a solo venture, good balanced tanking should need good turret operators who can double as ground support when needed. Ideally 3 in a tank and 3 supporting it would be a game changer(6 players squads Soon TM). Unfortunately most ppl call in tanks thinking its their instanwin. Few militia tanks are solo instawin the ones that are like mine are ones that actually built up to do so with little investment into the tanking class. Which brings me to my final point if in my soma i destroy your gunlogi/madruger it isnt the games fault and it wasnt starter AV it was the imbalance of player experience and knowledge in this case my knowledge of how to build a better tank. Not epeening just a stating something that is often overlooked among players using lower tier and higher tier gear. Higher tier gear is not automatically superior anymore like it once was a few builds ago, now SP allocation and build characteristics matter too.
Banjo Hero BurgezzE.T.F Orion Empire 17	Posted - 2013.02.05 15:07:00 - [25] - Quote Gunner Nightingale wrote: All i heard was i use a SOMA. All I heard was: Breakin Stuff wrote: an escape plan that [depended] on pulling a dukes of hazzard in an HAV and landing on a redberry. YEEEE-HAW!!! Hee hee hee. But, yeah, to the OP, as a non-tanker who's only fiddled around with them a little bit, but has buddies who use them a lot, I can say these guys are generally correct. Militia tanks are amusing toys, useless against folks who have put points into AV. On the other hand, militia AV is not so useful against well-fitted tanks. Do you run with a group, or are you playing solo? That can make a real difference. On my main I play Logi, and I keep a fitting for hanging out with tanks, with the vehicle-specialized repair tool and stuff. If my squadmate lets me know they're bringing out a tank, I can meet up with them with that fitting on and help watch their back. I'm ***, but that's my corpmates' problem. ;) As someone mentioned above, a couple of reasonably heads-up infantrymen on your flanks goes a long way to keeping those pesky AV 'nades off you. Do we win every battle I play in that I'm with my corp? Scoff* Oh, my, no! But, we win some, while I do believe every single time I've played a game with randoms, it's been a complete disaster. Of course, if the red team trots out eight dudes with proto SLs and proto FGs, you're completely boned, but, hey, them's the breaks. Odds are, if red team is organized enough to change fits en masse to address a change in the situation on the battlefield, you were boned anyway, regardless of whether they're all toting prototype gear or not. Long story short, if you invest some SP and ISK in your tanks, some time in thinking about your tactics, and some effort in finding a corp, you should do a lot better, mon ami.
Heimdallr69 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 131	Posted - 2013.02.05 15:11:00 - [26] - Quote Tanks are to easy to kill, i went solo agaisnt 2 at the same time with my swarms and av's yet i got them both before they could kill me...its kinda sad supposed to be a game changer now there just an easy way to farm wp
develsgun Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising 19	Posted - 2013.02.05 15:49:00 - [27] - Quote I believe my militia dropship costs as much as ur soma and I made it to be a throw away this is ur problem the old rules of price determining quality applies for the most part in this game. In short spend more. As for the grenades wish u explained weather there locus or av if ur talking about locus well u drove into the middle of vets that dont ignor tanks and I have seen this done with help from a forger but most dmg was grenades and assult rifles. Av nades are ment for anti tank if 2people throw them at u ur screwed


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