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Vesta Ren
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
33
   |
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:42:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've been part of the dust beta for a long time now, and the progress CCP has made with the game is amazing. However, there is one thing that's bugging me about how things are going right now. So far the entire game seems to be focused on turning it into a strong casual shooter, with short game modes, small maps, and mainly infantry combat. This is all good, and quite enjoyable, and i see where this will fit in in the final version, but i would like to know how the game plans to change for battles where important territories are on the line and billions of ISK hang in the ballance.
The idea of fair gameplay is great in the context of a pickup game with other randoms around the world who are looking for some isk or sp without too much commitment. But eventualy Dust is going to have larger impacts than just FW, and it doesn't seem right that territories will be taken over with the skirmish gamemode we have right now.
I think if dust is going to scale well the idea of fair play has to be given up for large scale combat. During battles one side should be able to dump large amount of people against a small defending force and simply zerg them (this might be possible already depending the on number of districts per planet) Both defenders and attackers should be able to bring in more clones and implacements through eve, dropping them in by getting into position similar to an OB. War point requirements need to be removed for OB's so that controling airspace in eve is an important priority.
Dust can't just be another generic shooter, it has to mesh with EVE in a way that makes them both important, and critical to the success of eachother. That will be what makes this game great in the end, not good hit detection or perfect balancing. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 20:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
For Dust to be successful, gunplay must be up to generic shooter standards. While there has been huge progress since August when I started, we're not there yet.
After getting basic FPS mechanics right we can start working on the rest. |
Vesta Ren
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
33
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 21:32:00 -
[3] - Quote
Arramakaian Eka wrote:For Dust to be successful, gunplay must be up to generic shooter standards. While there has been huge progress since August when I started, we're not there yet.
After getting basic FPS mechanics right we can start working on the rest.
I actulay disagree. FPS mechanics are critical if your making an FPS, but this is almost a whole new breed of game. I admit they're important, but just like eve the actual game play mechanics aren't as important as the player interaction is, and you only get player interaction on the scale you need if you give players enough power to do interesting things (like hot dropping, hi-sec ganking, fire-walling, ect) Imagine eve where every time you got into a fight you were sure the other guy wouldn't be getting remote reps or calling in support. It would be incredibly dull. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 21:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Although I do agree with you on most of your points, I think right now its good that CCP is focusing on very core game mechanics and modes. I think the small maps help encourage infantry combat, and I think that's a good thing for right now since that's the main part of the game.
I mean look at the maps, not the playable area but the WHOLE map. Things are goddamn massive. I think later on we'll see expansion into large maps which are more for vehicle combat, and other variations of core gameplay mechanics. Its fairly clear that CCP has plans they're not really talking about but are planning on implementing in the future. They've made a good move by sticking to a small part of the game and heavily focusing in on it instead of adding additional features and half assing all of them.
Keep in mind this game will never be 'done'. Like EVE, I think we can expect to see a major expansion every 6 months with new weapons, vehicles, maps, and game modes. Be patient, we'll get to where you want to go eventually, but we need to make sure what we have right now is perfect before we move on. |
Landari Zeta
Exit Wound Heavy Industries
16
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 21:54:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey is right. The Core Mechanics of the game come before all else, AKA CORE Mechanics. And the maps are very large. The playable zone is walled off to keep it at a manageable size. |
Protocake JR
IMPSwarm
Negative-Feedback
22
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Posted - 2013.01.30 22:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vesta Ren wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:For Dust to be successful, gunplay must be up to generic shooter standards. While there has been huge progress since August when I started, we're not there yet.
After getting basic FPS mechanics right we can start working on the rest. I actulay disagree. FPS mechanics are critical if your making an FPS, but this is almost a whole new breed of game. I admit they're important, but just like eve the actual game play mechanics aren't as important as the player interaction is, and you only get player interaction on the scale you need if you give players enough power to do interesting things (like hot dropping, hi-sec ganking, fire-walling, ect) Imagine eve where every time you got into a fight you were sure the other guy wouldn't be getting remote reps or calling in support. It would be incredibly dull.
No one is going to stay for the cool stuff when the play their first instant battle and find that character movements are sluggish. Reload times take forever by default (and the reload times are out of synch with the animation), hit detection is questionable, frame rate is barely 20, their getting redlined by an army squad of imperfects, and they have to spend months skilling up their character just to make reloads feel normal, just to make fire range feel normal, just to make moving speed feel normal.
No. Lots of people will say "yeah right" and then go back to their game of choice because it already offers smooth game mechanics right from the start.
FPS mechanics is the foundation in which Dust 514 is being built upon. All the cool EVE stuff won't matter if the actual gameplay mechanics suck. Many of us will tolerate it, but it won't be enough to keep a large enough player base for this game to survive on console... F2P games need a large player base to be successful. |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 22:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
Vesta Ren wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:For Dust to be successful, gunplay must be up to generic shooter standards. While there has been huge progress since August when I started, we're not there yet.
After getting basic FPS mechanics right we can start working on the rest. I actulay disagree. FPS mechanics are critical if your making an FPS, but this is almost a whole new breed of game. I admit they're important, but just like eve the actual game play mechanics aren't as important as the player interaction is, and you only get player interaction on the scale you need if you give players enough power to do interesting things (like hot dropping, hi-sec ganking, fire-walling, ect) Imagine eve where every time you got into a fight you were sure the other guy wouldn't be getting remote reps or calling in support. It would be incredibly dull.
You're making a game which is not meant for FPS players. FPS genre is the biggest console game genre there is, and CCP has chosen to pursue it. Making an FPS that doesn't get even basic FPS mechanics right won't get exposure or players, and thus will not be financially viable, and will die.
Everything else can come later. |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 22:13:00 -
[8] - Quote
Vesta Ren wrote:Arramakaian Eka wrote:For Dust to be successful, gunplay must be up to generic shooter standards. While there has been huge progress since August when I started, we're not there yet.
After getting basic FPS mechanics right we can start working on the rest. I actulay disagree. FPS mechanics are critical if your making an FPS, but this is almost a whole new breed of game. I admit they're important, but just like eve the actual game play mechanics aren't as important as the player interaction is, and you only get player interaction on the scale you need if you give players enough power to do interesting things (like hot dropping, hi-sec ganking, fire-walling, ect) Imagine eve where every time you got into a fight you were sure the other guy wouldn't be getting remote reps or calling in support. It would be incredibly dull.
The core mechanics should be the focus. Because it is the center of every thing. If it's broken, the rest will fall apart. Sluggish and Clunkish controls is the problem. I believe their priority is the stability of the game, I also believe the major sluggish and clucky controls are related to server. For some reason, the sluggish are not affecting Dropships and Tanks, but LAV does. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 22:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
The fact that things like reloading take forever is exactly what it should be. The whole point is that you're brand new to combat, you suck at everything, and getting better at it takes time. If we started with fast reload, there would be little gain to making it faster. Stats suck so that they can be improved with training.
And in the spirit of that horrible talking gun from Borderlands 2 "IF YOU WERE A BETTER SHOT YOU WOULDN'T NEED TO RELOAD!!" |
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