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Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
52
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Posted - 2013.01.29 07:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
I tried out a Heavy suit tonight and noticed it turned very nearly as fast as a Assault suit, even while firing. Now, I don't have Heavy Weapons yet, but I decided to try it out with a shotty and died horribly often. Obviously, with the slow firing rate of this gun and close range effectiveness, the combination doesn't work too well. AR would have been better.
Regardless, I tried this out, and wasted SP on an Amarr suit I didn't really want. (Could we get a SP respec at the end of Open Beta please: testing things you don't want tends to use up SP better used elsewhere).
Back to the point: I tested it because I, fighting in an Assault suit as usual, noticed how easily a Heavy with a HMG tracked and killed me as I ran directly across his line of fire. Now sure, I understand Heavies are tough and HMGs are damaging, but I was trying to outrun his ability to fire on me and discovered it was impossible.
When I hopped in the Heavy suit, the first thing I did was spin in a circle. I recall, in early beta this was incredibly slow and quite frustrating. Even the Assault and Scout Suits were slow back then. Today, I spun around like it was no effort. Even spinning and firing a few shots had little to no effect.
So it occurred to me, that this was not a very good implementation of this weapon and suit, and was likely why Heavies were deemed to powerful with the HMGs. I can attest to the weakness of the suit itself. My armor was stripped by a single AR in mere seconds multiple times. All they really had to do was point and burst twice and I was at half armor. That with a Plate on.
So maybe it wasn't a very good fit, but the point remains. I weigh about as much as your average car and turn on a dime.
I hate the original implementation of turning speed, as it was thoroughly awful and I was one of the first to say as much. I even stopped playing beta for awhile due to how frustrating it was.
So here is my suggesting: Make it a mechanic, and make it adjustable and variable. Allow skills to affect it, allow Modules to affect it, and allow variation in suit design to have a greater or lesser degree of base align speed.
I'm not sure how difficult it would be to implement this, but it is my suggestion. Scouts should be fast and agile, Logistics and Assaults should be more or less equal to each other, and heavies should be not only slower, but less agile. Turning a mass like that should be no less or more difficult than moving it forward.
Also, what is with Assault suits jumping 6 feet in the air, over your head very nearly, and bouncing around in close quarters so you yourself, wearing the same suit, cannot rotate fast enough to keep up with them? I had this happen more than a few times today and it had me thinking 'Dev-hacks.'
..and then there was the fact that I point blank fired a shot gun on an assault suit 3 times in quick succession and he didn't die. He did in fact kill me about 2 seconds later. I swear I saw blue hit markers on him, and I'm not even certain he lost shields at all.
When I say point blank, I mean about 10 feet with no obstacles between. Comparatively speaking, another couple Assault suits went down with one blast from about the same distance.
Back to the topic at hand again, I think it would be helpful if something like this were implemented, with max skill and module use making a Heavy turn more or less as fast as it does now, or maybe even as quickly as an unmodded, slightly skilled Assault suit under the same rules.
Basic thought is that it should take a base amount of time to make a full 360 degree rotation and balancing should be done off that. Increasing agility will reduce this time, and mods to reduce it further will have equal or greater benefit. Obviously, mods that effect the suits agility will also reduce the ability to fit modules that would be used for other benefits.
I would also suggest that modules intended for this purpose also impact the height a character can jump in a specific suit, but skills should not, unless perhaps you add a bonus of 2% per level to the base Dropsuit skill so it is useful for something more than getting the next level of Dropsuit. This could affect both aspects of agility.
edit:
Another thought, was to penalize the Heavies Agility by ~ 5% whenever they are firing their weapon. This may also be dependent on the weapon in question, and might be capable of being reduced with specific skills. Again, maybe the base Weapon skill might affect it. |
Xenoma Prime
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
11
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Posted - 2013.01.30 02:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
Isn't it a pretty bad idea to change turning speeds per suit, or even have a variable turning speed at all?
I say this because aiming is muscle memory, it takes a while to become accustomed with a new game because of it's slight differences in turning and aiming speed. You find your 'settings' and then you practice practice practice till it's transfered in to muscle memory. Making this constantly change based on suit and skills is mental in my opinion |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
I might also add that I have no interest in running an Amarr Heavy; I would be fine with Minmatar or Caldari most likely. Hard to say for sure without seeing them, but that is where I am leaning. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron
Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.30 02:51:00 -
[4] - Quote
Xenoma Prime wrote:Isn't it a pretty bad idea to change turning speeds per suit, or even have a variable turning speed at all?
I say this because aiming is muscle memory, it takes a while to become accustomed with a new game because of it's slight differences in turning and aiming speed. You find your 'settings' and then you practice practice practice till it's transfered in to muscle memory. Making this constantly change based on suit and skills is mental in my opinion
You may be right to some extent. I have played many first person tactical games where you switch up Mechs, (Armored Core was a favorite), Jets, Space Fighters, et cetera; all with different rates of movement and turning speeds; most of which affect your aim. They were great; I loved them and never had an issue with it.
I wasn't super good though, and it did take some time to get used to a vehicles operation, but once done, it wasn't hard to go back to it after switching to another.
Also, I'm fairly certain you'll find this changes in other ways regardless. Lag, changing weapons, and different modes of combat all affect this. Sniper scope or AR sights - both are different. Vehicle Turret - different again, as is a Blaster installation. It's something you have to adapt to if you plan on exploring the depth Dust has to offer.
MTACs we haven't even seen yet, (I'd like to have at least a few of the prereqs trained up before they arrive. I can only guess at what they might be though.), but we can assume they'll change everything for the pilot in some way.
Also, EVE has this already, though applied in a very different fashion. It fits the style of vehicles and modules Dust inherits from EVE. I do consider Dropsuits vehicles; particularly in that you can fit them.
I don't consider this madness, no. I assume that players will attempt to tune their fits for a specific or non-specific use that they like and then stick with them. This is most often how it is done in EVE.
I myself actually do something different very nearly every time, because it is what I like to do. Makes it hard on the fittings though; nothing is ever a very simple get it and go that way, unless I already have it and haven't tried it. If I had, it would likely be spacedust and I'd be looking for a new one.  |
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CCP Eterne
C C P
C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2013.01.30 18:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
I have deleted some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Please remain civil with your discussions. |
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kyan west
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
8
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Posted - 2013.01.30 19:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Eterne wrote:I have deleted some trolling and personal attacks from this thread. Please remain civil with your discussions.
win
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