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EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
   |
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
If we want to GÇ£fixGÇ¥ the current SP Cap we need to make three groups happy:
The Normal Players (a.k.a Casuals)
The Hardcore Players
And CCP
These 3 groups have different need which need to be fulfilled in order to have a change
But what do they want?
The Normal Players want: Not to be in a huge disadvantage over hardcores; a fun game ; something in that game that makes them want to play it even more
The Hardcore Players want: Have some advantage over other players who cant play as much as they do
CCP wants : Profit/Money [ We have to be realistic guys most players use the aurum only for the SP Boosters but with the old sp cap you only had to buy a 1-day Booster to get the extra sp from the whole week (by playing a lot one day) and that didnGÇÖt give a lot of money to ccp because people paid 1/7 than what ccp wanted for the extra SP per week)
With the Old Cap the only ones that were happy were the Casuals/Normal Players who couldnGÇÖt play every day because they had no actual loss by not doing it. We didnGÇÖt see any kind of complaints about it because most players are casuals
With the new cap the happy ones are ccp (because people actually buy the 7day boosters) and the hardcores because they have an actual advantage over the casuals. The casuals arenGÇÖt happy because they have a huge disadvantage.
Ill make an example to make it easier to see:
While Hardcore plays 7 days a week and reaches his cap every day , a casual/standard can only play on weekend . He reaches his sp cap those 2 days. In this way (the current one) the casual is in a disadvantage of 2/7 of the amount of Sp the harcores can. As you can see hardcores make more than the triple amount of SP that casuals do ;
You see? A huge disadvantage that most people donGÇÖt like and will never like and this is a HUGE problem for the game and its largest player base ( the casuals)
Most people have come with the same idea: Make the unused SP from one day roll over to the next day (add unused from day one to sp cap from day 2 and so on) all this while having a weekly reset (weekly cap)
This looks like a great idea because you wouldnt be reaching your weekly cap in one or two days and then have no reason to play and it lets you not play one day without any kind of penalty because you can just recover the loss by playing the next day
Although this looks like a great idea , the best idea ever IT IS NOT
why?
Because this just the casuals happy not CCP or the Hardcores : Not Everyone is Happy =/= solution
Hardcores: would get any bonus for playing more days than the rest, If i was a Harcore Player i would like to have some advantage over people that only plays 2 days a week by playing 7 days a week , but with this "fix" theres no advantage
CCP: Would make less profit because smart people would buy the 1-day booster and use it on the las day of the week (before reset) and could get all the bonus sp of from 7 days by just paying for 1 (paying 2000 instead of 7000 : theyre payin 3 times less than what ccp wants you to pay for a week of extra SP)
After Days of thinking if came up ONE idea to make EVERYONE HAPPY
My idea is more complicated than the above mentioned one.
I propose a way of accumulating SP without hurting CCP or the Harcores interests
I propose the amount of that can be transfered form day one to day two to have a penalty in percentage
this means having the Unused SP cap - X% add to the SP cap from day 2
like this Harcores will have some advantage over the casuals but it wouldnt be so huge that casuals would be eventually to underpowerd to beat harcores
and also make ccp have some kind of profit
We can make this by having Multiple Caps:
A weekly cap that is divided in 7 Daily Caps
Each daily cap is divide in a Standard/ Hard Cap + a Accumulative SP
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EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
________________________________________________________________________________________________
LEGEND: to explain the terms ill later use
Weekly Cap : Maximum Amount of SP that can be gained per week (not variable / Is affected by SP Boosters) [Daily cap 1 +Daily cap 2 + ....]
Daily Cap: Maximum Amout of SP that can be gained each day (variable/ IS affected by SP Boosters) [Standard Cap + Acumulative SP]
Standard Cap: is a fixed ammout of sp that can be gained per day Maximum ammount of SP that can be gained per day IF the SP cap is filled everyday (NOT Variable / is affected by SP Boosters) [1 / 7 from the Weekly Cap]
Accumulative SP: Amount of SP that can be accumulated from day one to day two (Variable / Not affected with boosters) [ Daily cap x 0,75 - unused SP = Accumulative sp a.k.a the sp that rolls over the days
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( Percentage penalty to make hardcores Happy)
________________________________________________________________________________________________
As you can see everyone would be happy
CCP because only the standard cap could be affected by the SP boosters not the accumulative Sp this means that if the standard cap is 150 and the bonus of the booster is 1.5 the maximum amount of SP i can get from the booster per day is 225. it doesnt matter if my accumulative is 1000 i will only get 225 per day, meaning that if you want to get the max amount of sp per week you have to buy th 7 day booster not just a 1 day booster
Hardcores are happy because the have a advantage by playing everyday over thos who can only play on the weekends
Casuals are happy because they arent in a huge disadvantage compared to hardcores because with the accumulative sp they can keep up with hardcores
What do you think
I know this is a complicated idea but i am sure that ccp will be able to apply it and as you can see this makes everyone happy
CCP YOU CAN MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY PLEASE DO IT
Please CCP |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Reserved for example with numbers
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NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:43:00 -
[4] - Quote
I like it... Great idea. Beats the NO SP CAP any day... Thank you |
Aqil Aegivan
The Southern Legion
50
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:49:00 -
[5] - Quote
If I understand correctly then we think alike. |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:52:00 -
[6] - Quote
yeah
i didnt copy u btw if that is what you think
i had that idea since the last update but couldnt writte it on the forums due to the lack of internet
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Aqil Aegivan
The Southern Legion
50
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
EternalRMG wrote:yeah i didnt copy u btw if that is what you think i had that idea since the last update but couldnt writte it on the forums due to the lack of internet
I'm not saying you copied me, just saying I support something like this happening. |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Aqil Aegivan wrote:EternalRMG wrote:yeah i didnt copy u btw if that is what you think i had that idea since the last update but couldnt writte it on the forums due to the lack of internet I'm not saying you copied me, just saying I support something like this happening.
Thanks
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Ranger SnakeBlood
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
126
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 15:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
OK +1 because its better than current one one.
But iam not sure about if its future proof as it still has sp which can never be earned back that is the problem with all reset for any day missed you are forever behind, even week lets face it eventually someone will have to miss a week and the wont earn anything, not only that but sure there is little difference between harcores and casuals whats it going to be like latter what is a 200k sp advantage will turn into a 2 million then a 20 million depending on how long dust lasts which is hopefully a hell of a long time.
This does not make people who join late happy think about it to make dust truely future proof they need to allow late players to have some hope of catching up not completly but to a extent, so my favorite option is a world wide sp cap that increases over time but the really important part is that it has diminishing returns the closer you are to siad cap the idea is to allow the no lifers to have a reason to play and have some advantage but a advantage that is not going to be miles ahead,
The idea here is that casuals can be say 1m behind and then have unresricted sp gains untill the get to say 500k then demishing returns kicks in at a percentage, this allows causuals and late joiner to potentially catch up with a long play session and there is still a advantage for no lifers.
The above numbers are place holders so they are up to ccp but a idea for such a thing would be,
to have sp gain directly assosiated to how much of the potential sp you have say if your at 70 percent of the possible sp then you only get 30%, if you just start with nothing you get 100%, you have 99% you get 1% of the sp gain, its probably a bit steep but something consistant like that would be nice
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Cyris Fortune
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
66
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 15:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
I agree with eternal maybe a 1% loss per day so that's 5% for the week and 20% for the month? And is the percentage a loss of the remaining SP or the daily SP total? |
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NAV HIV
The Generals
151
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 15:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Cyris Fortune wrote:I agree with eternal maybe a 1% loss per day so that's 5% for the week and 20% for the month? And is the percentage a loss of the remaining SP or the daily SP total?
I think he meant daily SP total. Either way it sounds fair and way better than No SP CAP |
Multiple Core
Doomheim
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 17:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Thsi idea is way better than the cap removal |
Frost The Warrior
Doomheim
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:51:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 |
Spacetits CDXX
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
103
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1, something like this idea had also occurred to me, but you explained it in much more detail than I would have, so props |
Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:00:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't care all too much, as long as everyone is bound by the same cap I'm fine with it. |
Kai Sakuemi
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
23
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:01:00 -
[16] - Quote
Still may need tweaking, but honestly, the devs should really consider options like this. |
Tidaen
Nova Corps Marines
20
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ranger SnakeBlood wrote:OK +1 because its better than current one one.
But i am not sure about if its future proof as it still has sp which can never be earned back that is the problem with all reset for any day missed you are forever behind, even week lets face it eventually someone will have to miss a week and the wont earn anything, not only that but sure there is little difference between hardcores and casuals whats it going to be like latter what is a 200k sp advantage will turn into a 2 million then a 20 million depending on how long dust lasts which is hopefully a hell of a long time.
While I feel that your point is valid, I think the advantage of having more skill points decreases after a certain point. Once you have enough skill points to max out a certain fit or style of game play then all additional SP are used to branch into different suits and vehicles.
For example, after one year of playing
Hardcore player: maxed out Assault, Tanks, Scouts and all relevant support and weapons skills.
Casual player: maxed out Assault and weapons while working on Logistics skills.
The player with fewer SP can still be competitive with his/her chosen fit. He simply can't cover the range of abilities that more experienced player can bring to the game. Speaking as a casual player I desire to maintain a competitive edge, but I sympathize with the fact if you put more time into the game, you should receive more out of it.
The real question for me is balancing how much more SP that intensive players are able to accumulate over us casual folk. |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:40:00 -
[18] - Quote
The numbers that i used are random numbers
i think that ccp could think of better number but the main idea is there
You guys should complain / worry saying that the percentual penalty is way too high or worry about the numbers
worry about the idea about what could be better what need tweaking and adding more suggestions
the numbers can be changed by CCP at any time (if the apply this) |
Multiple Core
Doomheim
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 01:33:00 -
[19] - Quote
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Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
968
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 02:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
I believe you have it wrong:
HC: Wants to play all day and get rewarded for every match.
Casual: Wants to achieve a decent rate of progression with a modest number of available hours.
CCP: Wants both HC and Casual to take seven years to max out all skills (and make money too).
You can satisfy only two of the three requirements at one time.
If you satisfy:
CCP and Casual you get a daily cap with a seven day sliding window which leaves the HC complaining ever day about 75 SP.
CCP and HC you get the cap replaced with a much lower reward per match and a glacial pace for new or casual players. HC makes constant progress though slower than before so CCP is happy.
HC and Casual you get runaway SP for the HC player and a decent progression for the Casual. CCP watches the HC max out a character in six months.
Nothing will satisfy all three parties. It's simple math. |
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Rugman91
Deep Space Republic
143
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 02:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Please stop making these threads. The sp system will be fixed on the official release. Be patient |
Multiple Core
Doomheim
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 02:59:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rugman91 wrote:Please stop making these threads. The sp system will be fixed on the official release. Be patient
mmm
you know that CCP wants some advise on how we think that this game should be/work?
CCP is one of the only game companies thta listens their players
and theres no full release and there will never be a full game like most MMO it will expand and keep expanding for ever
and open beta is like the release because no everyone can play soo
yout argument is Invalid
read the post and make positive feedback
and this is the best solution ive seen so faar
soooo
GTFO |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 03:01:00 -
[23] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I believe you have it wrong:
HC: Wants to play all day and get rewarded for every match.
Casual: Wants to achieve a decent rate of progression with a modest number of available hours.
CCP: Wants both HC and Casual to take seven years to max out all skills (and make money too).
You can satisfy only two of the three requirements at one time.
If you satisfy:
CCP and Casual you get a daily cap with a seven day sliding window which leaves the HC complaining ever day about 75 SP.
CCP and HC you get the cap replaced with a much lower reward per match and a glacial pace for new or casual players. HC makes constant progress though slower than before so CCP is happy.
HC and Casual you get runaway SP for the HC player and a decent progression for the Casual. CCP watches the HC max out a character in six months.
Nothing will satisfy all three parties. It's simple math.
^ I'm afraid this is quite true.
Of the three, we should pick Casual and CCP to please in order to have a long-lasting and healthy game.
HC's will be bound to have more to play for than just SP, so I believe they would be content (btw I conside myself one of th hardcores as I haven't missed a cap on two characters - yet)
The OP's suggerstion on rolling cap with small reduction% is HUGE!
Props for thinking of that!
So far my best suggestion was the combination of the following:
- Have a daily cap
- Rollover that can hold maximum of seven days (one week)
So in essence this is sort of an combination of daily+weekly
OP's idea might be somewhat better than this. |
EternalRMG
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
234
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 12:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
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Frost The Warrior
Doomheim
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:07:00 -
[25] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Skihids wrote:I believe you have it wrong:
HC: Wants to play all day and get rewarded for every match.
Casual: Wants to achieve a decent rate of progression with a modest number of available hours.
CCP: Wants both HC and Casual to take seven years to max out all skills (and make money too).
You can satisfy only two of the three requirements at one time.
If you satisfy:
CCP and Casual you get a daily cap with a seven day sliding window which leaves the HC complaining ever day about 75 SP.
CCP and HC you get the cap replaced with a much lower reward per match and a glacial pace for new or casual players. HC makes constant progress though slower than before so CCP is happy.
HC and Casual you get runaway SP for the HC player and a decent progression for the Casual. CCP watches the HC max out a character in six months.
Nothing will satisfy all three parties. It's simple math. ^ I'm afraid this is quite true. Of the three, we should pick Casual and CCP to please in order to have a long-lasting and healthy game. HC's will be bound to have more to play for than just SP, so I believe they would be content (btw I conside myself one of th hardcores as I haven't missed a cap on two characters - yet) The OP's suggerstion on rolling cap with small reduction% is HUGE! Props for thinking of that! So far my best suggestion was the combination of the following:- Have a daily cap - Rollover that can hold maximum of seven days (one week) So in essence this is sort of an combination of daily+weekly OP's idea might be somewhat better than this.
i agree |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
We all have sp fix threads :D. But what CCP has is best....the weekly cap with increased softcap fixes all |
Morathi III
Rebelles A Quebec
57
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
The currently system is fine |
Volgair
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
200
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 15:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I believe you have it wrong:
HC: Wants to play all day and get rewarded for every match.
Casual: Wants to achieve a decent rate of progression with a modest number of available hours.
CCP: Wants both HC and Casual to take seven years to max out all skills (and make money too).
You can satisfy only two of the three requirements at one time.
If you satisfy:
CCP and Casual you get a daily cap with a seven day sliding window which leaves the HC complaining ever day about 75 SP.
CCP and HC you get the cap replaced with a much lower reward per match and a glacial pace for new or casual players. HC makes constant progress though slower than before so CCP is happy.
HC and Casual you get runaway SP for the HC player and a decent progression for the Casual. CCP watches the HC max out a character in six months.
Nothing will satisfy all three parties. It's simple math.
Right again Skhids. but here is one thing that most of you fail to consider. The hard core guy that doesn't want to reach maximum potential in a "weekend." Like me. Who wishes not to gain supremacy by endless grinding, but well placed-informed skill points in specialized ctrs. Over time, because they realize people get bored with things that they cant watch improve, which severely mitigates retention rates. |
SGT Garrisson
On The Brink
60
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 17:05:00 -
[29] - Quote
Skihids wrote:I believe you have it wrong:
HC: Wants to play all day and get rewarded for every match.
Casual: Wants to achieve a decent rate of progression with a modest number of available hours.
CCP: Wants both HC and Casual to take seven years to max out all skills (and make money too).
You can satisfy only two of the three requirements at one time.
If you satisfy:
CCP and Casual you get a daily cap with a seven day sliding window which leaves the HC complaining ever day about 75 SP.
CCP and HC you get the cap replaced with a much lower reward per match and a glacial pace for new or casual players. HC makes constant progress though slower than before so CCP is happy.
HC and Casual you get runaway SP for the HC player and a decent progression for the Casual. CCP watches the HC max out a character in six months.
Nothing will satisfy all three parties. It's simple math.
u first suggestion should satisfy everyone if u add the rolling daily cap even a hardcore gamer cannot play all day everyday
evey noy and then he is going to miss a day and wont beable to get that missed day back with out it
ive seen mentioned befor about 1mill sp per week (using this as a refrence at this point) so from the recent reset in week one the cap is 1mill sp broken down into 7 days of daily cap which rolls over each day to the next come week 2 and u havnt made the cap its still there to gain + another 1mill sp has been added to the pool
so HC player makes his 1 mill in week 1
CASUAL makes 600-800k leaving him with between 1.2-1.4 mill sp to gain in week 2
now in to week 2
ur HC player has got somthing to do for a day and doesnt play the cap rolls into day 2 of week 2 so he has got twice as much grinding to do to get the cap today yet can still make the 1 mill weekly cap
ur CASUAL manages to get a bit of extra time so make 700-900k sp leaving 500k sp to roll into next week closing the gap slightly
week 3 HC player cant play at all for some reason so no cap total 2mill sp
CASual closes the gap buy 900k leaving him 600k off the 3 mill total sp and in front of the HC player
now week 4 and HC player grinds and gets back in front casual is slighlt behind again
as for boosters if the HC used them he would hit the cap sooner in the week and the casual would possibly manage to get the 1 mill sp
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