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Taking armor damage through your shields. Any advice/constructive critism is wel...

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madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 11:19:00 - [1] - Quote I think that there needs to be a passive effect on all players in Dust 514. The effect that i would propose is taken directly from EVE Online. The effect would be: That when a players/vehicles shields drop to or below 25% capacity, there would be a chance to take damage to the players/vehicles armor through their shields. The effect would start off at a 25% chance to do damage through the shields when they are at or below 25%. What i would like to see along with this passive effect would be the Tactical shield manipulation skill. What the Tactical shield manipulation skill does is decrease and eventually eliminate that chance of taking damage through your shields when they are below 25%, with each level spent into the skill reducing your chance of taking damage by 5%. At skill level 5 a player would no longer be at risk of taking armor damage until there shields are completely gone. Adding this skill will do more than just give players another skill to spend points on, but it would continue on a shield trend that is already active in the New Eden universe, why would dropsuit or smaller vehicle shields be any different than the shields that larger space ships use? I would assume that they would be using the same shield technology. Also not having this effect active on stationary emplacements like turrets or supply depots/CRU's would not bother me at all.
Axirts Misfits of Mayhem 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 11:55:00 - [2] - Quote I don't get what what significant change this would have. Would the chance to ignore shields be per bullet? I mean assuming you get the armor down to 1/4 without destroying it and assuming it would take 3 rounds from your gun in order to take down just their armor, in order for you to actually make use of the bypass, all 3 would have to make it, being a 1/64 chance this even happens. Based on how many shots have to go through you have an exponentially decreasing chance. Just by putting points into upping your armor to make it into 4 hits from 3 means you make it a 1/266 chance. That's less than .5%. If instead by damage through shields you mean there's a 1/4 chance that when you hit someone with <1/4 shield it destroys the shield as well as applying the hit to your armor then why not call it "shield depletion" or something like that? But this also would ruin the whole point of there being vehicles with high shield with low armor and low shields with high armor. Why would anyone buy shields if it can be easily destroyed like that? "My tank has 4k Shields but in reality I only expect it to block 3." I could however see skills to increase damage dealt on shields or skills increasing your shield's resistance to different types of weapons. I would dump all my points into laser defenses.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:06:00 - [3] - Quote I agree with you almost completely. Using your tank as an example, 25% shields would leave you at 1000 shields and lets say for argument like what about 800 armor? when you get hit with an explosive which does less damage to shields and more damage to armor, lets say from a missile launcher or remote explosive, you could potentially lose your 800 armor and explode while still having 1000 shields, rendering your shield tank not as effective as previously hoped unless investing further skill points into your shield skills. currently i find there is a lack of shield and armor skills available in dust. As you mention specific passive shield/armor resistances would be nice as well, and as a bonus to keeping with the EVE theme, the skills can be taken directly from EVE again, in the form of shield/armor compensation skills. For example the Thermic shield compensation skill would reduce the amount of damage your shields take from thermal weapons like lasers.
KalOfTheRathi CowTek 168	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:09:00 - [4] - Quote Nah, it is just another EVE player that doesn't want to learn a new mechanic.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:09:00 - [5] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: Nah, it is just another EVE player that doesn't want to learn a new mechanic. why would you say that?
Axirts Misfits of Mayhem 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:23:00 - [6] - Quote madd greazy wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Nah, it is just another EVE player that doesn't want to learn a new mechanic. why would you say that? Yah, not sure what you mean Kal. Seems like Madd just wants more shield customization and is taking working examples from EVE. I just think the scaling from space ships to a tank, and definitely a dropsuit, doesn't work as well.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:23:00 - [7] - Quote Some more input would be great. I would like to see what others think about this idea.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:24:00 - [8] - Quote Axirts wrote: madd greazy wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Nah, it is just another EVE player that doesn't want to learn a new mechanic. why would you say that? Yah, not sure what you mean Kal. Seems like Madd just wants more shield customization and is taking working examples from EVE. I just think the scaling from space ships to a tank, and definitely a dropsuit, doesn't work as well. Thank you by the way!
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 12:50:00 - [9] - Quote Some more input would be great. I would like to see what others think about this idea.
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 102	Posted - 2013.01.19 13:13:00 - [10] - Quote Axirts wrote: madd greazy wrote: KalOfTheRathi wrote: Nah, it is just another EVE player that doesn't want to learn a new mechanic. why would you say that? Yah, not sure what you mean Kal. Seems like Madd just wants more shield customization and is taking working examples from EVE. I just think the scaling from space ships to a tank, and definitely a dropsuit, doesn't work as well. Kal talking out of his arse The current mechanic we have now is easy, its just shoot until shield is gone then you continue shooting to damage to armor The EVE mechanic is once you are down to 25% shield or less the chances of your armor being damaged before your shield is depleted is increased I do like the EVE mechanic

madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 13:29:00 - [11] - Quote Thanks for the input Takahiro Kashuken. Also just to inform anyone who may not know, the militia caldari tank (sica) actually has more shields and armor than an intermediate level caldari frigate (merlin) from eve. (EVE ships have shields, armor and hull hp values, so I included hull and armor into one to match Dust's armor stat) In fact the militia sica almost matches the caldari destroyer (cormorant) in shields and armor. Caldari Cormorant Destroyer stats without skills: Shields: 782 hp Armor + Hull: 1302 hp Total: 2084 hp Caldari Sica HAV stats without skills: Shields: 2000 Armor: 770 Total: 2770 Nuff said
Takahiro Kashuken Intara Direct Action Caldari State 102	Posted - 2013.01.19 13:38:00 - [12] - Quote madd greazy wrote: Thanks for the input Takahiro Kashuken. Also just to inform anyone who may not know, the militia caldari tank (sica) actually has more shields and armor than an intermediate level caldari frigate (merlin) from eve. (EVE ships have shields, armor and hull hp values, so I included hull and armor into one to match Dust's armor stat) In fact the militia sica almost matches the caldari destroyer (cormorant) in shields and armor. Caldari Cormorant Destroyer stats without skills: Shields: 782 hp Armor + Hull: 1302 hp Total: 2084 hp Caldari Sica HAV stats without skills: Shields: 2000 Armor: 770 Total: 2770 Nuff said Yea but that is base hulls with nothing on them The Corm has 3 rig slots 8 high, 3med and 2 low Sica 3 turrets 1L/2S, 3 high and 2 low and no rig slots Plus that is comparing a tank to a spaceship
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 13:46:00 - [13] - Quote Yes but my point to that comparison, was that the tank has more total starting hp than a spaceship to begin with. So how would it be scaling down to go from a spaceship to a tank when size is the only matter? The tank has a higher hp total than the destroyer therefore the skill would be more of a viable choice for the tank, as you would have a higher shield hp amount when rounds start penetrating your shields, rendering your aweome shield hp amount useless without the skill points invested. Besides in all seriousness, if we wanted to really get into the theory of force fields or energy barriers, as they decrease in strength/capacity, it would be easier for penetrations to occur.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 13:53:00 - [14] - Quote Christ, a free starter LAV almost matches a damn frigate in total hp.... Caldari Merlin Frigate stats before skills: Shield: 469 hp Armor + Hull: 664 hp Total: 1133 hp Caldari Onikuma Impact LAV stats before skills: Shield: 730 hp Armor: 310 hp Total: 1040 hp That is the vehicle stats btw, no mods.
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 14:14:00 - [15] - Quote Anyways this topic was supposed to be about the use of one shield skill and adding a passive effect to all players/vehicles, not comparing spaceships to land vehicles. lol
madd greazy OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 27	Posted - 2013.01.19 14:22:00 - [16] - Quote I think it just adds more complexity to the game (which is totally CCP's style), it makes the game more interesting for those who actually want to put the time and effort into it, and properly build their character towards specific roles. This will also encourage players to use different tank styles, rather than just load up on boosters and activate as you need. Players might not get that same effect by activating their booster, sure they might heal a couple pulses but then pow that forge gun shot passed right through your shields and blew you up. Along with other mechanics and Engineering skills that could be transferred from EVE to dust, it would open up a whole new way to look at building your vehicles and dropsuits. Favouring shields would then require you to have a little bit more of a specialization rather than spreading your skills across the board. And in turn armor fans would be able to use other options, like say maybe a skill that could reduce the amount an armor plate slows the wearer, or some other comparable skill that would reflect an armor users needs.


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