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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
   |
Posted - 2013.01.17 08:01:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have been playing MAG again lately (could only get in the 64 player battles), and realized how much more smooth and fluid it looks compared to Dust. I don't remember MAG having such great FPS, so I'm guessing it only looks that way compared to Dust's really bad FPS. I'm not really sure what.
CCP, I urge you to improve Dust's FPS. Something around mid 40s, and should not drop below 30. This really affects gameplay and responsiveness.
EDIT: If 40 something is impossible to do, then at least make it not dip below 30 and avoid steep drops. |
Cinnamon267
The Southern Legion
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 09:44:00 -
[2] - Quote
You won't see it any higher than 30. It will almost certainly be locked. Having an unlocked framerate would make issues considerably more noticeable. Especially when all kinds of crazy stuff happens and you go from, what you want, 40, all the way down below 30. Things would start to look as if they are in slow motion and it would mess with controls too much. And it would look super awful to have that. AC3 has an unlocked framerate and its.... not good to look at.
Bangin' on about beta again but, this isn't final code. Nowhere near final code. Framerate is, almost, always the final thing devs iron out at the end of development. It improved a lot with the last build and will continue with every build until launch. |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 10:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
The whole point of a beta is for testers to give feedback/requests, not to assume that it will come later. Last beta I didn't say anything about an issue because I just assumed it would be fixed, it was never fixed.
Why can't the frame rate be locked at a higher number? This game only has 32 players right now, while MAG battles had 64 minimum. Sure Dust has lots of installations, armor models, weapon models, and installations etc, but so did MAG (installations were called tactical assets). |
KalOfTheRathi
CowTek
168
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
30 FPS is standard for many reasons. Some, unfortunately, are very technical.
TL;DR
Will probably cause massive glitching, clipping, collision problems and crashes. Enjoy!
Technical-ish reply.
Depending on how physics are done as well as a few other things it might not be doable at all. When the individual programmers are making things happen they have several ways to decide on how much to do in a given time slice. If the slice is 1/30 of a second then movement, hit tracking, vehicle dynamics and player animations (all animations in fact) are using a pre-calculated value. Much faster and produces a consistent product. At the worst the entire game would have to be rewritten to handle the flexible time slice that would be needed to provide the flexible FPS.
When they are Not using a specific time slice each individual action will have to find out how much time it has to use. 60 FPS will use half the time value (Surprise, surprise. I know you aren't that dumb really) but any value faster will require knowing how many animation frames will be used or calculated. That goes for slower then 30 FPS as well.
The result is we get skipping when we have many players throwing bullets, grenades, bodies and vehicles everywhere. This is really only the result of having a herd of PS3s connecting via 160ms pings to the server and their attempt to resolve positions across all of them as one and at one. Hard to do. First successful attempt was by id Software via John Carmack.
If you have played Dark Souls on the PC there are mods available for it. One will unlock the 30 FPS limit. Many, many crashes are the results. I have no recent news to believe that has been overcome. It would mean (like for DUST) all the animations would have to be redone so a variable frame rate could be supported.
A second thought is to realize how the server that handles EVE Online functions. Look up the post on the Burning by the Doom Swarm this last summer (EVE players please correct this and/or update the event). They use Time Dilation TiDi to balance activity on the server. How that effects us, I have no idea. But I would be amazed if it didn't in the future. Just saying.
MAG built a Really Super Duper Different Server Architecture (tm). According to them. It did not work as expected nor as advertised and that is part of why the game is technically a failure. Financially, it certainly is. Game play wise it is better than many but the point is moot since it is a proprietary design. They have yet to write a paper about that I have seen. So comparing any game to MAG is just a waste of cycles. MAG is what it is. A financial failure and will probably cause any other game provider to shy away from it.
Using a MAG server design may not matter at all to EVE anyway. Their server architecture is pretty standard setup. I suspect that their front end proxy solution is the most fascinating part (to geeks like me anyway). The back end could be any number of configurations considering that they are handling two radically different games with significant different functionality.
If more information is needed try searching for postmortems on any multiplayer game design. Gamasutra is a reasonable web site to start with. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.01.17 18:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lately I couldn't get myself to play longer than 20 minutes due to the combination of lag and low framerate. This needs massive improvement.
How about we fix the game to the lowest level of detail and play a 1990's version of dust at 60 fps, please? I'd pay aurum for that option. |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 12:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Lately I couldn't get myself to play longer than 20 minutes due to the combination of lag and low framerate. This needs massive improvement.
How about we fix the game to the lowest level of detail and play a 1990's version of dust at 60 fps, please? I'd pay aurum for that option.
Lowering standards ftw |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
25
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Posted - 2013.01.18 17:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
I simply don't trust CCP to actually reach their own standards, so I'm offering to set the bar to a level that's more to their capabilities. |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
102
|
Posted - 2013.01.18 18:26:00 -
[8] - Quote
Each build has got smoother as it is
No need to rush something only to **** it up |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2013.01.18 18:38:00 -
[9] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Each build has got smoother as it is
No need to rush something only to **** it up
They have so much content to add maybe they should get the basics of visual rendering done FIRST |
Takahiro Kashuken
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
102
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Posted - 2013.01.18 18:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Firestorm Zulu wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Each build has got smoother as it is
No need to rush something only to **** it up They have so much content to add maybe they should get the basics of visual rendering done FIRST
They are doing it in stages
With each patch and build they tweek things and add things in groups so that it all work together instead of trying to fix one thing then putting in alot of content after only for the 1 thing to not work with the new content |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.01.19 11:54:00 -
[11] - Quote
I hope at least it will stay at 30 minimum by the time it releases. |
Emrys Gal-Wyddel
The Southern Legion
5
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 08:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Something really does need to be done about this, I reckon I'm getting down as low as 15-20 fps some games, and it's making the game increasingly difficult and frustrating to play. I find myself quitting after 1 or 2 games now :\ |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 17:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Each build has got smoother as it is
No need to rush something only to **** it up
No, it hasn't. This current build performs alot WORSE than the previous build.
It's barely playable in it's current state. It's just not running at a frame-rate that is acceptable for a competitive multi-player shooter.
The other night I had an absolutel tard tell me in game chat that it was my router that was causing the engine to run so poorly. He proceeded to tell me that the PS3 could render this engine at over 100 fps with 1000 players and that it coul outperform high end gaming PC's.
If this is the kind mentality we are up against and people are willing to accept such shoddy technical presentation, then this game is never going to match the amazing concept. |
Noraa Anderson
Nox Aeterna Security
184
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 17:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Aside from... Many issues... The framerate struggling to reach a constant 30 and often dipping to 20 is one of my major gripes. The actual online interaction has been generally lag free with solid connection speeds all around even when playing against opponents on the far ends of this Earth.
They should have gone the extra mile and attempted 60fps. |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 18:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
Noraa Anderson wrote:Aside from... Many issues... The framerate struggling to reach a constant 30 and often dipping to 20 is one of my major gripes. The actual online interaction has been generally lag free with solid connection speeds all around even when playing against opponents on the far ends of this Earth.
They should have gone the extra mile and attempted 60fps.
The PS3 just doesn't have the power to push that kind of frame-rate on a game so ambitious without massive compromises. I don't think it's even hitting 30 a regular basis. As soon as you start to turn it, with very little happening on screen, it judders. It takes a silly amount of time for textures to load in too.
This is a massive issue because the low and very variable frame-rate is hurting controller response. Every time I play this game, I feel like I'm fighting the controls. It's just so damn unresponsive.
In 2 days time, it opens up. If there isn't a new build by then, it's going to get SAVAGED by the gaming press. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 18:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
*facepalm*
It's pretty stupid when people suggest things like "get rid of lag!" or "make the game run smoother!" as if CCP didn't already want to improve it. |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2013.01.20 18:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
^^^^
There it is people. That's the overly sensitive, defensive, fanboy like response I was talking about earlier.
Next he'll be telling that it's our routers. |
Robojock
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
2
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Posted - 2013.01.20 21:46:00 -
[18] - Quote
I agree but I'm skeptical they can get this game running any smoother. You can improve it yourself by putting in a SSD or faster HDD in the PS3. It does make the framerate more stable (less Harddrive thrashing) |
Cinnamon267
The Southern Legion
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 03:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Noraa Anderson wrote:Aside from... Many issues... The framerate struggling to reach a constant 30 and often dipping to 20 is one of my major gripes. The actual online interaction has been generally lag free with solid connection speeds all around even when playing against opponents on the far ends of this Earth.
They should have gone the extra mile and attempted 60fps.
60FPS wouldn't be doable with a game, like, this. The amount of technical concessions you have to make would fly in the face of what this game is. |
Cinnamon267
The Southern Legion
30
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 03:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
Emrys Gal-Wyddel wrote:Something really does need to be done about this, I reckon I'm getting down as low as 15-20 fps some games, and it's making the game increasingly difficult and frustrating to play. I find myself quitting after 1 or 2 games now :\
Really? You tried deleting and reinstalling? Haven't had any issues like that. Framerate has been pretty good for me. |
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Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
237
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Posted - 2013.01.21 03:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Cool, your PS3 has a better GPU than the rest of us.
Where did you get it? |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 04:25:00 -
[22] - Quote
Beast Beastlington wrote:Cool, your PS3 has a better GPU than the rest of us.
Where did you get it?
No need for rude sarcasm, you have to admit that the frequent sub-30 frame rate drops are a problem, and a lot of games with a lot going on could achieve high frame rates. Something like 40 frames per second may not be possible with Dust, but its not like its impossible for PS3 in general; I have seen games with frame rate higher than 30. |
Beast Beastlington
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
237
|
Posted - 2013.01.21 04:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Admit they are a problem? I've been CONSTANTLY posting about this horrible frame-rate.
I'm tired of people making excuses for it. "It's your router, it's your PS3". Bullshit. The current build is crap. Simple as that. |
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