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Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
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Posted - 2013.01.14 00:32:00 -
[1] - Quote
I came across this discrepancy while reading a thread about some tank user or other whining about how militia infantry gear is too close to Standard. When I looked at it, I also went on to look at the rest of the suits, right up to proto, and due to leveling off the HP values a few builds back all are the same with the exception of a slot here or there. Meanwhile, the difference between Tank Standard and Tank Advanced is usually 600 HP, a few slots, faster regeneration, and an implicit damage bonus.
When they leveled HP, they gave nothing back, and didn't even reduce cost. So WHY should we skill into anything beyond standard unless we REALLY need a bit more PG or CPU? And even then is it worth the cost? The prototype Heavy suit, the VK. 1, costs MORE than a TANK. And you have to replace that several times a battle, plus modules and weapons, because of the pisspoor HP values when compared to costs.
To those of you who read that rant who know where I'm going, and those of you who skipped to here because you saw this: TLDR The advanced and prototype Dropsuits need to get their greater HP values BACK and get an IMPLICIT BONUS like the Advanced Tanks have their 1.5x multiplier to damage.
Currently there are two general suit types per class, a Armor and Slot version and a Shield and Speed version, to generalize.
Heavy, give one suit an HMG boost and the other type a Forge boost.
Give Logi a bonus to Repair, or maybe a greater boost to hacking to the second type.
Scout can get speed bonus, shotgun bonus, knife bonus, there are so many little niches that could be empowered by a suit that explicitly boosts them for this fellow.
As for Assault, give him a bonus with the Rifles or Sidearms, or maybe a mix of both(SMG and AR for one, Scrambler and LR for the other)
Another bonus to this is that we can see at a glance what the person is most likely to do. The guy in the Scout suit with the sharp, angular features will most likely rush you to knife your eyes out, for example.
EDITEDITEDITEDITEDITEDIT
IT LOOKS LIKE I NEED TO BE BLUNT AS A STONE AND CLEAR AS A DIAMOND.
Return some HP to more advanced suits.
Give suits a buff that works like ships skill boosts in EVE. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 02:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ulysses Knapse wrote:Yes, the Prototype Fatboy Suit does cost more than a standard HAV, but what you fail to realize is that it costs much less than a HAV of it's own Tech Level (Marauder).
Also, they don't get anywhere near a 1.5x Bonus. They get a 20% bonus at level V skill.
That's not the point. If I'm paying more than I would for a tank for something that is barely better than a freebie suit then why should I bother? Also there isn't a Prototype tank, just Militia, Standard and Advanced, unless the Covert ones are Prototype level. AS for the 1.5 bonus, it is supposedly an implicit bonus to the mosel like the Logi's hacking bonus. Never shows up anywhere in the game, but you can find it in the patchnotes and forum posts. And just l;ike the hacking madules and skills, the Marauder skill just adds on top of that.
But we digress, this isn't something to attack tanks, so if your angle is DEFEND MAH TANK, chill. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 07:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
RECON BY FIRE wrote:So if standard gear is enough to do well in the game then why do you see such a rush to proto gear already? Do you know how many Killswitch Geks and the aur version of the proto HMG Ive been killed with already? People are spending real money on proto equivelant weapons just to get an edge on the leaderboards without even having a suit to fully support it yet! And you want to tell me theres no reason to go proto? BS. Also, if there is no reason to run proto stuff then why did everyone and their mother who could run proto do so in almost every single match they played in before reset? Because it is worth it.
You seem to be misunderstanding me, or just simply cannot read, or maybe you forgot to read the heading which said dropsuits and not guns, and hell, you even AGREED WITH ME right here
'People are spending real money on proto equivelant weapons just to get an edge on the leaderboards without even having a suit to fully support it yet!'
I said Prototype and Advanced DROPSUITS. NOT GUNS.
What I'm saying is that DEFENSE doesn't scale anywhere near as good as OFFENSE. People are skilling into Prototype GUNS, a 2x skill. Suits are a 8x skill, and even then having a prototype suit does you shitall without having modules, which is another 2x to 5x skill. Prototype, or even Advanced Dropsuits, just don't have enough to justify their unlocking, let alone usage, whereas people are going to use their AURUM and Prototype weapons at all times, and be extremely upset if they can't afford them any longer. I am simply asking that the SUITS actually DO something implicitly of themselves, not just allow you to pile more crap on them.
Hell, the fact that you stated yourself that everyone is skilling into guns first shows that even you agree that Dropsuits aren't worth it. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.14 07:57:00 -
[4] - Quote
Zat Earthshatter wrote:hmm... something to give Dropsuits something better to work for?
The first thing that comes to mind are MTACs (confirmed - future). Even if they are vehicles, they are sufficiently humanoid to have their performance improved by using a dropsuit's neural feedback+operating system.
Thus, I think they should require at least some skill in dropsuit trees before using them.
I had a thread to this effect, but i believe it was biomassed after it fell behind a certain page (not sure how far these pages go on DUST forums)
This isn't a solution. It's just making the skill a prerequisite, you may as well say that you need Heavy Suits III to unlock HAV skills will make Heavy suits better. It just forces people to learn the skill, it doesn't make the skill or the associated suits better or more useful. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.16 05:01:00 -
[5] - Quote
crazy space 2100046106 wrote:well in eve online each level of minmatar frigate buffs ALL ships via ship bonuses per level. I.. um.. am not really sure why leveling up dropsuit skill give no bonus per level to al suits ...
Having scout at level 5 should even make your militia suit a little better. Just like in eve.
I am aware what ship hulls do in EVE online, and I suggested as such near the end of the OP. I thank someone for finally getting it, but it appears I have to beat people over the head with a point to get them to notice it... |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 19:06:00 -
[6] - Quote
NovaShadowStorm wrote:How is it not worth skilling into suits? You get more CPU/Grid and in some cases more slots to use. I don't know about you but I've run across players that are near unkillable since they've been wearing proto suits and stuffed their slots full of shield expanders, regulators and armour mods. Well either that or stacked damage modifiers. Hell before the last wipe I was running advanced and was hard to kill due to the tank I had in my slots. Point is more CPU and Grid is good it lets you shove more in. As for overall suit health thats for you to balance with the stuff you cram into it. It's all about how you tank it, you shouldn't have to expect more lest begin the "This suit is too OP because of it's skill we need this we need that blah blah blah". Fit smarter to stay alive and more CPU and Grid help with that alot.
Yes, but those are things the suit helps to DO.
Think EVE. I have a Thrasher. I can fit it pretty well, a few things here or there. then I decide to train the Destroyers skill, and even though I'm STILL USING THE SAME THRASHER I get some inherent bonuses from increasing the skill.
You make a good point, but it is the WRONG POINT. You're saying that a Thrasher has less fitting space than a Hurricane, so I should skill into a Hurricane as a matter of course. My complaint isn't about the SUIT but the SKILL, it doesn't DO anything but unlock, unlike the EVE versions which don't do anything IMPLICITLY, but the SHIPS THEMSELVES have bonuses that draw from the skill. Snagman got the idea, as did a few others.
If anyone sees this as unfair, then I guess we should remove the skill bonuses from the weapons skills, the shield and armor skills, and the skills that exist just to boost your stats, like Circuitry and Infantry Mechanics. I've seen people whine about how the suit skills doing anything is 'unfair', then they go off to whine about a weapon skill being too weak. I'm sick of the double standard and the 'suits have been like this forever why change?' mentality. Suits skills need to get better if your making them an 8x skill, when so many 1x and 2x skills have no purpose beyond having a buff attached. |
Zero Harpuia
Maverick Conflict Solutions
422
|
Posted - 2013.01.17 19:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
RedBleach LeSanglant wrote:I like the premise for your idea. The balancing act that must take place to get it right is another issue all together.
Hey, they're still balancing the ship bonuses in EVE, but it works over there 
All it requires on our part is some patience and bitching, and we do those enough already. |
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