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Mister0Zz
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
31
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
First off i'm going to clarify that killing clones and not getting killed yourself will always be important, but what should really be important is what you kill and not how many. Success is measured in Isk in new eden, so the only stats that should matter are how much money you've lost from respawning and how much Isk in damages you've inflicted on enemy mercs. Here's an example of why this is true.
a 300,000isk proto suit kills a 20k standard suit 4 times
the standard kills the proto once
The proto has a KDR of 4/1 but has lost 220,000 more isk than the standard.
i think this would be a much more accurate way of telling how effective a merc is
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Michael Cratar
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
179
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
Mister0Zz wrote:First off i'm going to clarify that killing clones and not getting killed yourself will always be important, but what should really be important is what you kill and not how many. Success is measured in Isk in new eden, so the only stats that should matter are how much money you've lost from respawning and how much Isk in damages you've inflicted on enemy mercs. Here's an example of why this is true.
a 300,000isk proto suit kills a 20k standard suit 4 times
the standard kills the proto once
The proto has a KDR of 4/1 but has lost 220,000 more isk than the standard.
i think this would be a much more accurate way of telling how effective a merc is
I see what your saying. but if you make more then you lose *by killing stuff* you will be fine. KDR is not super important, but that dose not mean tit is useless. |
Sentient Archon
Red Star.
690
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
See this is where you are wrong. If you go with that mentality and when you are trying to take over a district or planet , if you die 4 times when the other dude dies only once, you will run out of clones and hence the district or planet. You loose more ISK that way.
**** militia gear and get some good gear. Kill more die less. |
Mister0Zz
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
31
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:See this is where you are wrong. If you go with that mentality and when you are trying to take over a district or planet , if you die 4 times when the other dude dies only once, you will run out of clones and hence the district or planet. You loose more ISK that way.
**** militia gear and get some good gear. Kill more die less.
I agree, this thought process shouldn't apply as much when fighting for control of something. I was just speaking about the stat itself, not the gameplay implications. What you said does make me realize another layer of complexity though. When trying to take a planet even if you take a couple districts, when you lose more money than the people you're fighting because you're running expensive gear you could be beaten economically. Left to fight with weaker gear the enemy could then retaliate with their stockpiled budget |
TEBOW BAGGINS
FIREFLY ATLANTIS ENTERPRISES UNLIMITED
TACNET
549
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
i agree but with no way to track this stat then for now KDR is more important as it can be monitored |
Kain Spero
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
893
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sentient Archon wrote:See this is where you are wrong. If you go with that mentality and when you are trying to take over a district or planet , if you die 4 times when the other dude dies only once, you will run out of clones and hence the district or planet. You loose more ISK that way.
**** militia gear and get some good gear. Kill more die less.
Quoted for truth. ISK efficiency is key in pub matches, but not running out of clones in one of the main factors in district fights. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've always wanted an isk destroyed/lost statistic to go with kdr. I used to hunt proto suits in a scout smg. It ruined my kdr, but the entire fit cost less than 30k and I was taking down black suits & Balacs and having fun doing it. |
Groza Tragediya
Opus Arcana
Orion Empire
72
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lawl, or you could get good with militia gear and not rely on a crutch to carry you. Just saying save the money for vehicles or installations. |
Governor Odius
Doomheim
177
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:34:00 -
[9] - Quote
That's only true if they're always deathmatch style. Objective matches are rarely determined by cloning out.
Also, there's such a thing as a pyrrhic victory. Winning the match is of little consequence if you lost all of your HAVs and expensive dropsuits in the process. |
Milk Supreme
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
127
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:36:00 -
[10] - Quote
This all depends on who you ask.
Everybody has their own opinions and justifications on what a "victory" is.
There is no right or wrong answer |
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BigussDikkuss
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
42
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Posted - 2013.01.11 15:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Will there ever be LIFETIME stats in this game?
So you can see a TOTAL Kill / Death ratio, or how many total victories and losses and games played?
Is this a feature CCP may implement once the game goes open beta or full release? I'm a stat freak. BLUR spoiled me silly. |
Appia Vibbia
Opus Arcana
Orion Empire
4
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:17:00 -
[12] - Quote
Governor Odius wrote:That's only true if they're always deathmatch style. Objective matches are rarely determined by cloning out.
Also, there's such a thing as a pyrrhic victory. Winning the match is of little consequence if you lost all of your HAVs and expensive dropsuits in the process.
Yeah, in a lot of Skirmish battles other teams have beaten my corp but at huge cost.
Speaking of Skirmishes though, I think I've seen more matches run out of clones than I have seen MCC's defeated, which usually means it was an even match and capturing and reclaiming the missile silos (or whatever they're called). |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
206
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:20:00 -
[13] - Quote
DUST is an FPS...KDR will always matter in this genre. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
In the tourney we cloned a team for the win, so yeah kdr ftw. Also what OP says is contradictory if you don't die you don't lose your stuff so not dieing is good cause you don't lose your stuff. I may lose 1 proto suit but Ill get the most rewards for stomping everyone 10x over. |
JW v Weingarten
SyNergy Gaming
300
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:23:00 -
[15] - Quote
since when does isk matter? |
BMSTUBBY
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
95
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:42:00 -
[16] - Quote
KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:DUST is an FPS...KDR will always matter in this genre.
Only to some.
There are a few of us DUSTERS that look at WP per match rather than KDR.
I love seeing my 1-13 KDR at the top of the leader board on the winning side because of the 2000+ WP that I just got for my support roll.
One stat I would love to see is assists. |
Gunner Visari
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
163
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:47:00 -
[17] - Quote
Clearly the OP doesnt have the services of a good Logibro at his back.
Because you know getting revved even though counting as a death SAVES your gear.
Also now that everyone is even in terms of SP and gear ive had 3/5 last matches go down to single digit clones on one or both sides with literally one or two bars left on the MCC. Games b/w corps is closer than ever.
Just goes to show how VALUABLE gear is in determining the outcome of a match, you can fool yourself into thinking that it doesnt matter if you are making profit, good luck when you get to FW and find yourself against an entire army of Proto, congrats that you took down that one or two protos in a mil/std suit in the end you will fail, the only thing that can be said about the current differences in std and pro gear is the urgency isnt quite there to get to proto within the first month or two which can now be focused more on building core skills.
Also the mentality of im making profit only matters if you have a crappy corp or are not in a corp yet, frankly P/L cant be measured from match to match, like any good financial outlook quarterly reports mean nothing if the fiscal year is a net positive.
Which is kinda the point of finding a good corp it WILL be a STRUGGLE to try to be a balla on your own.
In other words think Long term blue chip investments young grasshopper not quick get rich schemes.
Lesson concluded. class dismissed. |
Odiain Suliis
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
112
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Posted - 2013.01.11 20:54:00 -
[18] - Quote
One thing to remember also in those district wars are that even tho corporation gets it's match lost by depleting clone count it doesen't matter if that corporation can keep the battles up 24/7 and wear out the opposing side.
Chances are that those high KDR players won't be online 24/7 or not enough of em. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
425
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Posted - 2013.01.11 21:53:00 -
[19] - Quote
KDR isn't everything, but of course it matters... and in theory, isk efficiency matters a lot. But in reality, in only matters to a solo merc w/o a corp. If you're in a EVE corp, they have BILLIONS upon BILLIONS to EASILY throw at their Dust arm. In that case, isk means NOTHING. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1899
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Posted - 2013.01.11 21:57:00 -
[20] - Quote
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ChargersGirlLuvsDP
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
49
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Posted - 2013.01.11 22:10:00 -
[21] - Quote
OP,
You should just keep your mouth shut on this topic. I agree with you, I would assume that many here also agree with you; though you will not change the minds of the vocal minority who have naught to hold onto aside from their K/DR and their epeens.
They will never agree with you, they may say they do, but they don't. The reason being is this: If they do agree with you, they must admit that their own "value" isn't as great as it is in their own minds. |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion
Amarr Empire
479
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Posted - 2013.01.11 23:19:00 -
[22] - Quote
I think you'll find the people with good KDRs have plenty of money, for every match where they loose a few expensive suits and go negative profit, there is 10 where they don't lose a thing and get paid twice what anyone else does.
IMO you should be using the best gear available to you all the time, this isn't EhonourKnight 514 or MerchantPrince514. |
Astral Zan
Doomheim
31
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Posted - 2013.01.11 23:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
JW v Weingarten wrote:since when does isk matter? this  |
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