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Deveshi
WarRavens
144
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Posted - 2013.01.02 02:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Currently the swarm launcher operation skill gives +5% swarm launcher missile damage radius per level. This bonus applies to a previous build only when the swarm launcher could be fired without a lock. This way it could be used to kill infantry. This is now impossible and the bonus is irrelevent now that all missiles are homing only.
Can we replace this skill with a range bonus? |
Lorpsajee Nos
Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic
5
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Posted - 2013.01.02 03:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
I prefer the original swarm launchers. Don't like using them anymore. Makes you to vulnerable to infantry unless you specialise in sidearms too. At least forge guns can be duel purpose with practice. |
Integral Zan
IMPSwarm Negative-Feedback
46
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Posted - 2013.01.02 03:25:00 -
[3] - Quote
I don't see why they got rid of dumbfire for the swarms. E3 and after it wasn't a problem at all. |
I-Shayz-I
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
172
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Posted - 2013.01.02 05:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
They're coming out with a plasma cannon or something that will be dumbfire only I believe.
But yes, the splash damage radius doesn't make sense. A better bonus would be a 5-10% increase to swarm speed per level. That, or faster lock times. |
Chunky Munkey
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
285
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Posted - 2013.01.02 12:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think proficiency should upgrade swarm speed, operation should upgrade . . . umm, lock times maybe. +1 for OP without doubt. |
Guinevere Bravo
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
140
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Posted - 2013.01.02 12:07:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lorpsajee Nos wrote:I prefer the original swarm launchers. Don't like using them anymore. Makes you to vulnerable to infantry unless you specialise in sidearms too. At least forge guns can be duel purpose with practice.
You have kind of hit the nail on the head, dont use one unless you have semi-decent side arms skills. Easy.
Either a damage increase or speed increase would be nice. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
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Posted - 2013.01.02 15:38:00 -
[7] - Quote
We already have damage increase on the prof skill so that is already out the question.
I would be more than happy with the a velocity increase as this will increase the range anyway (D=S*T) so in a way its the same suggestion. However, I would prefer a distance buff for the sake of balance as I can understand where the HAV drivers are coming from as pointed out by Ulysses Knapse in this post. An increase in velocity would buff the swarm launcher in 2 ways (against D=S*T) so unless this was done in conjunction with a range nerf it would be unbalanced.
As for the reduction in lock on time, I really don't think there would be a point to this. The lock on time is currently only about 3 seconds so a 5% reduction per skill level would go somewhat unoticed. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
970
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Posted - 2013.01.02 20:21:00 -
[8] - Quote
Deveshi wrote:We already have damage increase on the prof skill so that is already out the question. I would be more than happy with the a velocity increase as this will increase the range anyway (D=S*T) so in a way its the same suggestion. However, I would prefer a distance buff for the sake of balance as I can understand where the HAV drivers are coming from as pointed out by Ulysses Knapse in this post. An increase in velocity would buff the swarm launcher in 2 ways (against D=S*T) so unless this was done in conjunction with a range nerf it would be unbalanced. As for the reduction in lock on time, I really don't think there would be a point to this. The lock on time is currently only about 3 seconds so a 5% reduction per skill level would go somewhat unoticed.
D = S*T, but Speed and Time are also a function of energy available for thrust.
Keeping the propellant load the same, an increase in speed would yeild a shorter flight time and actually reduce range as faster flight is less efficient. Air resistance causes quite a loss. Faster speeds also increases turn radius by the square of the speed, so a missile traveling at twice the speed will require four times the turn radius which could result in a miss.
Longer range would require slower travel unless additional propellant was added, and then you have to add even more to carry the additional weight. The trade offs are what determine effective ranges for rockets and missiles.
So faster travel doesn't necessarily mean increased range, and vice versa. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2013.01.02 20:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
A eve type flight time bonus would be nice.
Lock distance and speed stay the same, missile flies longer before self destruct, so dropships have to do the circle to outrun missiles longer with higher level ones.
Increases the speed would make dropships much more vulnerable, it would not take much extra speed for the dropships to not be able to outrun anymore and die to standard swarms wielded by people with lv5 operation. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
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Posted - 2013.01.03 09:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Skihids wrote:Deveshi wrote:We already have damage increase on the prof skill so that is already out the question. I would be more than happy with the a velocity increase as this will increase the range anyway (D=S*T) so in a way its the same suggestion. However, I would prefer a distance buff for the sake of balance as I can understand where the HAV drivers are coming from as pointed out by Ulysses Knapse in this post. An increase in velocity would buff the swarm launcher in 2 ways (against D=S*T) so unless this was done in conjunction with a range nerf it would be unbalanced. As for the reduction in lock on time, I really don't think there would be a point to this. The lock on time is currently only about 3 seconds so a 5% reduction per skill level would go somewhat unoticed. D = S*T, but Speed and Time are also a function of energy available for thrust. Keeping the propellant load the same, an increase in speed would yeild a shorter flight time and actually reduce range as faster flight is less efficient. Air resistance causes quite a loss. Faster speeds also increases turn radius by the square of the speed, so a missile traveling at twice the speed will require four times the turn radius which could result in a miss. Longer range would require slower travel unless additional propellant was added, and then you have to add even more to carry the additional weight. The trade offs are what determine effective ranges for rockets and missiles. So faster travel doesn't necessarily mean increased range, and vice versa.
I tilt my hat to you. Hadn't thought about it in context of thrust which was pretty dumb on reflection. Still, a fine response.
I am still in favour of a range increase of a speed increase though for the sake of balance. I believe a speed increase would make it to OP. |
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Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2013.01.03 14:18:00 -
[11] - Quote
I read someone on here saying splash damage affected the target aswell ... presumably depending on where the hit lands.
No idea where he got the info from but it made sense in a way ... perhaps the bonus is still relevant without dumbfire.
Also dumbfire was ment to be made available again on some models of SL ... but was never implimented. |
Zachary Rancourt
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
4
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Posted - 2013.01.10 09:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote: Increases the speed would make dropships much more vulnerable, it would not take much extra speed for the dropships to not be able to outrun anymore and die to standard swarms wielded by people with lv5 operation.
A good pilot could use obstacles as cover but would be quite hard, but I do like increasing speed when it comes to HAV's that stay near cover and are able to get behind said cover before the missiles connect. Maybe add a altitude modifier that slows rockets to be fare to dropships. Slow to what the speed is now, don't want to nerf that. I think the light weapon sharpshooter skill plays in to rang, got it maxed and 3 lvl in the proficiency one and i'm seeing a big rang diff.
+1 to anything with replacing bones splash damage, with anything. |
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