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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
   |
Posted - 2012.12.31 16:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
The debate of the SP cap and derminishing returns has been ongoing and I have been very out spoken against the forms of skill cap suggestions I have seen. This is because I believe a SP cap will devalue SP boosters which we are paying our cash for and every model I have seen suggested or implemented thus far promotes the 'casual players' to 'players who aren't to bothered about Dust' end of the scale, rahter than the 'hardcore players' to 'casual players' end.
The hard-core and casual players make up our player base and will continue to do so as more players join Dust as for the most papart, players will be joining one of these camps. As far as I am concerned an SP cap only offers detriment to the play of those who are involved in playing Dust now in favour of supporting those who *might* be able to play Dust more in the future. I do not agree that a model for a game should be designed with this assumpution.
Until now I have not offered my own suggestion on how to sort out the problem on casual Vs. hardcore or how we can accomodate new players in a couple of years time when there are a bunch of vets running around, so here it is.
Instead of all the cap BS why not just rearrange the skill multipliers so that the general and base skills are somewhat easier to get and grinding / time intensive play only comes into effect when you are specializing.
Currently there are:
14 x1 skills
26 x2 skills
18 x3 skills
6 x4 skills
21 x5 skills
4 x6 skills
6 x8 skills
2 x10 skills
3 x12 skills
if these were redistributed so that the middle area x4 - x6 skills are reduced in number and the lower and higher end number of skills is increased. That way all new / casual players will be able to get the base skills they need to get involved within the first month or 2 of playing and then they can join the grind when they have decided on their speciality.
An example of this would be to reduce weapon operation skill requirements to a x1 skill and increase the proficiency to x6 or x7. The same could be done with drop suits and other skills simply by adding dropsuit proficiency skills and ties to prototype varients. This way casual players, those who arent bothered, and new players will be able to train into basic armour and weapons within the first couple of weeks of play, advanced in the first month, but it will take much loner to get to the prototype varients. This also provides further scope for CCP to add modules beyond the prototype gear as players progress into higher levels.
I think this would be a better system than the SP cap anyway because it will put more emphasis on the game getting harder the more advanced you get rather than dicking everyone over from the start due to a dependancy on how much you play.
With regard to the SP difference between new players and Vets. This gap is always going to be sizeable but with this model it is in the players control on how quickly they join the ranks of the veterans. Over and above that there are many more elements to Dust that make the difference between a veteran and a n00b, these include ISK, abilitty to create and use efficient fittings, teamwork, organisation, and of course the ability to aim!
The SP cap does not make it easier for new or casual players to get involved with Dust and it does not aid to close the gap between n00bs and vets, all it does do it make the game a massive grind for EVERYONE that wants to play more than 10 matches a week (everyone who plays will improve and will hit the cap faster as time goes on).
My suggestion levels the playing field so every player of Dust knows where they stand and what they have to do to get to where they want to be. If the SP income were set to a moderate standard income based on WP and the SP requirements for skills adjusted it would all be in plain writing and we wouldn't be wading around in the dark moaning about getting 500sp a match for 1500-2000 WP half way through the week.
You can even make it as long timewise to get the prototype skills as with the current SP cap using this suggested system except n00b skills will be easier to get and we won't feel like we've been bummed every time we see the after action report!
EDIT:
By moderate amount of SP per match I am suggesting something like 1000 SP for every 100 WP. Simples. |
Free Beers
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
1043
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Posted - 2012.12.31 17:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP has decided to make Skill Points part of the business model. That means regardless of the quality or yours or others ideas they wont change it because they want us to spend real money for SP. |
Gilliana SilverDrill DockWagon
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.12.31 18:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
this skillcap limitaton is boluxed. your punishing players for playing too much. |
nakaya indigene
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
41
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Posted - 2012.12.31 19:17:00 -
[4] - Quote
The sp cap punishes the hardcore. Hardcore spend the most in aurum. The hardcore population is more than half of the game. This game is an offspring of Eve. Eve is mostly hardcore. A good amount of Eve players play dust. The casual market has been scared off by codex. All this is going to do is alienate the existing fan base and cost them more money in the long run. They need a csm for dust and take players input seriously. They are heading into another jita Riot. |
shur shot
M3N OF MAYH3M
0
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Posted - 2012.12.31 19:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
I say if not make sp easier to get make points cost more like 70 for a kill 150 for a node hack it will help long as ur puttin in the work |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
|
Posted - 2012.12.31 19:46:00 -
[6] - Quote
shur shot wrote:I say if not make sp easier to get make points cost more like 70 for a kill 150 for a node hack it will help long as ur puttin in the work
Sorry mate but this won't do a thing. Hacking, kills and any other action get you War Points which is then used to calculate your SP reward. With the cap and the derminishing returns it does not matter how many WP you get in a game after the first 10 matches or so because your reward will still be nerfed by the cap.
If the amount of WP given out during a match was increased it would simply mean you would hit the cap faster so you would be dropped down to >5,000 from 20,000 SP per match for the same WP, for example, after 5 matches rather than 10. |
Deveshi
WarRavens
144
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Posted - 2012.12.31 20:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Free Beers wrote:CCP has decided to make Skill Points part of the business model. That means regardless of the quality or yours or others ideas they wont change it because they want us to spend real money for SP.
Of course SP has to cost players money or a dramatic amount of time, if it didn't we wouldn't have a game. I am not disputing the fact that skills need to take a long time to get nor that there should be incentive to purchase boosters. I am arguing that the SP cap is detrimental to the income of CCP and the player experience because it is the wrong way to manage a leveling system.
At the moment levelling system is biased towards people who can only play the game for a couple of hours per week and many other suggested models still pose as a massive deterent for the more dedicated players.
I am proposing that CCP manages this problem by reassessing the skill requirements for various aspects of the game so that the essentials to the game are easy to get e.g. assault rifle operation (it's an FPS for f**k sake! If half the players are still stuck on assault rifles level 2 for 3 months what does that say about the army of the future?) and the specialization skills are harder to get... e.g. proficiencys.
That way it is clear to the player what the objectives are and what is required to get there. These requirements can be adjusted at CCP disgression so that they could take exactly the same amount of time as they do now (some relatively simple calculations if you had the exact figures for the skill cap and deminishing returns) the only difference would be that new players would find it easier to get into the game if the requirement for essential skills is lower and dedicated players don't feel like they are getting raped because they see their SP reduced to nothing after a few matches, we dont mind waiting to earn high level gear, we're here for the long haul anyway! We just don't want our noses rubbed in it.
I would also like to point out that THIS IS HOW THEY DO IT IN EVERY OTHER LEVEL BASED GAME! Stop being lazy with your stupid cap system and sort out the leveling system properly... I believe someone is being paid to figure that out... |
51770
Tronhadar Free Guard
Minmatar Republic
1
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Posted - 2013.01.02 03:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Paying for boosters to level faster seems counter-intuitive when you use the word hardcore. Maybe it's just me, but hardcore means not needing boosters not need any advantage over any other player, just using pure skill against those who use "boosters" and other such advantages over the non-booster playing base. Guess that's just me, but I come from CS where no one could boost like a crackwhore behind a dumpster. Using cash to buy in game anything seems like just a way to make the game play to those with more cash than others. For that reason it turns me off. I like the gaming dynamics, but just not this quote unquote hardcore junkee pay to level faster environment. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2013.01.03 22:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
its never gonna go away, if you dont want something that caps your experience and actually adds to it even when you win a game. go play battlefield.
all of them, that ribbon system, encourages people to play, even if they dont win.
along with rolling unlocks, rolling attachment unlocks, in game kitloadout changing and attachment system.
yup.
oh and dont forget the battlelog and free DLC for people who pay a bit extra for premium.
even I can go back to when I started playing 2142, even that game had that system, even though alot harder.
But back to this game, CCP is not going to remove the Cap or even give something that is going to increase your sp rewards the better you do because their game is way different. It also keeps people from getting too powerful, but hey I meet super powerful people in Bf3 but rank means nothing there, its all skill.
But I dont know even how to fix CCP's cap, maybe if they changed the games dynamics and stuff and stopped trying so hard to make us linked to eve we would have more memory to play with. Maybe if we even gave guns a fire selection switch instead of taking up more memory and adding in guns that do single, burst and auto, cause barely anyone uses the tactical or even the burst. most people just use the militia auto assault rifle.
I honestly dont even know the point of it, if were in beta wouldnt the whole point to be testing everything, and sucking it up when we meet someone thats more powerful than us? Maybe even when we meet someone more powerful than us, taking that person thats a higher level than you, gives you more SP. But yeah, this whole SP cap has to leave.
Back to Bf3 and why their system is good, cause ive only played 27 hours or so and ive grabbed two level per game at times.
Regardless of SPM or K/D Ive done fairly well.
But back to eve514, the reason that lots of people leave this game for other games is because of the cap in the first place.
CAPS HELP NOTHING IN AN MMOFPS GAME. |
J'Jor Da'Wg
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
648
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 03:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I am not sure of how to fix this, but its really lacking in reachable incentive to play another game. I play maybe 4 matches a week because I make 90% of my SP then. When I am going for the x7 skill, I just kind of give up because it takes forever to save enough SP for it. Other shooters make good use of the "unlock the shiny" that keeps you playing another hour to unlock that cool thing.
Dust presents you with Mount Everest, challenges you to beat the world record, then ties bricks to your calves and says you can't climb more than 200 feet a day. The "SP Mountain" I call it. Drudgery at its best. "oh I have to play 90 more matches to unlock this skill that does nothing noticeable for me. Yes, +5% range. Woooohoooo." |
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Crimson Badblood
Royal Uhlans
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2013.01.04 04:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
They could always do it like they do in EvE, passive skillpoints only. |
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CCP Frame
C C P
C C P Alliance
470
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Posted - 2013.01.04 06:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
Hey guys,
Our QA team is currently working on a hotfix to make the Skill Point cap work the way it's supposed to. More information will be available in the Announcements section once we are ready to deploy this to Singularity.
Thank you for your feedback. |
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Stinker Butt
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.01.04 23:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
does anybody know how the skill cap is supposed to be? |
InsertCoinHere
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
11
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Posted - 2013.01.07 14:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
I wish I woulda kknown about this before I activated my 30 day boost. Way to stick it to a new guy trying your game out.............. |
Stinker Butt
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 19:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
InsertCoinHere wrote:I wish I woulda kknown about this before I activated my 30 day boost. Way to stick it to a new guy trying your game out..............
Don't get upset. If we get wiped, you will get it back, unharmed.
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xXTruegamerXx
The Generals
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.07 21:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
SP cap 500,000 week |
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