DUST Search - [Request] No K/D or WP reward within 2 seconds of the target spawning or being r...

CaptBuckle wrote:

Mobius Wyvern wrote:

Give it up. 80% of Planetside 2 is spawn camping and no one complains. If it irritates you that much, play Skirmish, and work with your team.

Except that spawn camping still happens in skirmish around the CRUs and drop uplinks, as well.

I don't want DUST to be Planetside 2 (or whatever game it is that ArMaGeDoN keeps going on about). I want DUST to be DUST. I also don't want to have any kind of silly invulnerability like some double dragon, side scrolling arcade B.S. My suggestion was only to push the idea that there should be no reward for killing someone that isn't yet back in the fight. I figure the spawn animation takes between half a second to a full second. That is an extra second in which a camper can get a bead on your head without you being able to do anything about it. I also think it takes about 2 seconds after spawn to spin around, see who is nearby, and try to get someone in your sights.

So again, I suggest a 2 second timer in which a spawn death will receive no reward. Also, re-killing someone immediately after a revive shouldn't inflate some campers kill total.

No honor = no reward. (But this should combine with ability to administer a coup de grace, I think.)

It doesn't mean that you can't keep a position suppressed from others spawning in while you do what's necessary to secure an objective. It means you won't get a reward for hanging out around a CRU of objective just capping anything that spawns in...so go ahead and hack the CRU and move on.

The intent is to focus the game back on good tactics rather than cheap tricks.

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CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 16:21:00 - [1] - Quote A quick search turned up requests for "spawn invulnerability" or of spawning you in, already facing the nearest enemy. Or of just letting you spin your view around during the last few seconds of the spawn timer. I propose, instead, that things just be left the way they are. People can still spawn camp if they think there is a tactical reason to do so...but they get no kill total increase or WP reward if they kill the opponent within 2 seconds of the spawn. There should be no reward at all for shooting fish in a barrel. This would mean it would only be tactically advantage to camp a CRU until it is hacked. There would be no tactical advantage to camp a drop uplink, so it would be better to just destroy the uplink, like a fighting force _should_. This could also be extended to killing revived opponents. There has already been a kill awarded for that person, once...there should be no reward for "re-killing" someone who is not yet back in the fight. (Killing the logi that hasn't checked if the zone is clear yet? Totally fair game. But no reward for re-killing.) This also means there may be value in implementing a coup de grace as well...to prevent revival. The downside is that you need to be close to the downed enemy, aiming downward instead of at the other opponents that want you dead. So an enemy delivering a coup de grace is just as vulnerable as the logi trying to revive. But a coup de grace still should not reward a kill. That said, a logi gets rewards for risking enemy fire, so an enemy should get _something_ for a coup de grace...but I would say no more than 10 WP...and you have to be within 2 meters. (And apologies to French speakers if I misspelled "coup de grace".)
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.25 16:32:00 - [2] - Quote And then people explot it. A better solution would be an orbital drop on the spawning location, giving you limited control of where you want to go. I had a thread not too long ago, it had some ideas people didn't like but some of the modules could work well in the game and most of them are about the orbital drop. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=428766#post428766 Go down to modules. Also read about the how the time you press X for inertia dampener will change your insertion. "If you activate inertia dampeners early in the air, you will land "softly", you instantly look up once you hit the ground and you are ready to shoot. But if you do it this early the AA will 100% kill you since you spend a long time in the air. If you activate inertia dampeners right in time you will have a 3 second animation of standing up. You will take severe damage from the AA and if there is more than one in that area you are toast. If you activate inertia dampeners late, then the the AA will only moderatly damage you but you will take at least 6 seconds to stand up and shoot. If you don't activate the dampeners then... splat. Also, the spawning timer can be removed (Or shortened to like 3 seconds), because the orbital drop will take 10 seconds alone." About AA: I thought of it as something the size of a resupply station that can be called in by the players to deny an area.
CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 17:03:00 - [3] - Quote ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: And then people explot it. How do you exploit getting no kills or WP for camping a spawn or revival? What, a squad might jump in all at the same instant to "exploit" the enemies lack of WP gain? First, spawning in at the same moment is not an exploit. It's called "coordination". Second, no one is invulnerable during those two seconds. All that happens is that the enemy that is camping can't inflate their K/D ratios or earn more WP toward an orbital strike. ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: A better solution would be an orbital drop on the spawning location, giving you limited control of where you want to go. I had a thread not too long ago, it had some ideas people didn't like but some of the modules could work well in the game and most of them are about the orbital drop. Yes, I was one of those who did not like your idea. It adds a bunch of skills to a skill tree that is probably already too complex for the casual console gamer, requires a lot more isk to be spent deploying things to the battlefield, all to turn Dust into a knock off clone of whatever ArMaGeDoN's favorite shooter might be. What I am suggesting is a very simple change to the reward system without overcomplicating or completely transforming the rest of the game.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:10:00 - [4] - Quote CaptBuckle wrote: ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: And then people explot it. How do you exploit getting no kills or WP for camping a spawn or revival? What, a squad might jump in all at the same instant to "exploit" the enemies lack of WP gain? First, spawning in at the same moment is not an exploit. It's called "coordination". Second, no one is invulnerable during those two seconds. All that happens is that the enemy that is camping can't inflate their K/D ratios or earn more WP toward an orbital strike. ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: A better solution would be an orbital drop on the spawning location, giving you limited control of where you want to go. I had a thread not too long ago, it had some ideas people didn't like but some of the modules could work well in the game and most of them are about the orbital drop. Yes, I was one of those who did not like your idea. It adds a bunch of skills to a skill tree that is probably already too complex for the casual console gamer, requires a lot more isk to be spent deploying things to the battlefield, all to turn Dust into a knock off clone of whatever ArMaGeDoN's favorite shooter might be. What I am suggesting is a very simple change to the reward system without overcomplicating or completely transforming the rest of the game. First, I thought you meant immunity, my bad. Second, I wasn't talking about this idea specificly. What I proposed is a modified version of what I proposed eariler, that keeps the spawning mechanics as is (I.E drop only around null cannons and Drop uplinks), that was the main concern. They didn't like the idea of being able to drop anywhere right at spawn. There was another thread that was mostly favoured, and it had basicly the same idea as my modified one, only without the AA, modules and dropsuits. They also seemed to approve of the modules and dropsuits.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:18:00 - [5] - Quote Give it up. 80% of Planetside 2 is spawn camping and no one complains. If it irritates you that much, play Skirmish, and work with your team.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:20:00 - [6] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Give it up. 80% of Planetside 2 is spawn camping and no one complains. If it irritates you that much, play Skirmish, and work with your team. They didn't try to fix it. If we shout loud enough CCP will hear us. To OP: The orbital drop isn't too hard to implement. They already have pretty much every mechanic they need. Just choose your spawn point for example objective X (Already exists ingame), get a 3 second timer (because the drop adds time), they will just drop you at the highest point in the sky and give us better mid air control, and every mechanic after that already exists ingame. That's pretty much the meat and bread of this idea. Everything else is in addition.
CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:43:00 - [7] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Give it up. 80% of Planetside 2 is spawn camping and no one complains. If it irritates you that much, play Skirmish, and work with your team. Except that spawn camping still happens in skirmish around the CRUs and drop uplinks, as well. I don't want DUST to be Planetside 2 (or whatever game it is that ArMaGeDoN keeps going on about). I want DUST to be DUST. I also don't want to have any kind of silly invulnerability like some double dragon, side scrolling arcade B.S. My suggestion was only to push the idea that there should be no reward for killing someone that isn't yet back in the fight. I figure the spawn animation takes between half a second to a full second. That is an extra second in which a camper can get a bead on your head without you being able to do anything about it. I also think it takes about 2 seconds after spawn to spin around, see who is nearby, and try to get someone in your sights. So again, I suggest a 2 second timer in which a spawn death will receive no reward. Also, re-killing someone immediately after a revive shouldn't inflate some campers kill total. No honor = no reward. (But this should combine with ability to administer a coup de grace, I think.) It doesn't mean that you can't keep a position suppressed from others spawning in while you do what's necessary to secure an objective. It means you won't get a reward for hanging out around a CRU of objective just capping anything that spawns in...so go ahead and hack the CRU and move on. The intent is to focus the game back on good tactics rather than cheap tricks.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.25 20:50:00 - [8] - Quote CaptBuckle wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: Give it up. 80% of Planetside 2 is spawn camping and no one complains. If it irritates you that much, play Skirmish, and work with your team. Except that spawn camping still happens in skirmish around the CRUs and drop uplinks, as well. I don't want DUST to be Planetside 2 (or whatever game it is that ArMaGeDoN keeps going on about). I want DUST to be DUST. I also don't want to have any kind of silly invulnerability like some double dragon, side scrolling arcade B.S. My suggestion was only to push the idea that there should be no reward for killing someone that isn't yet back in the fight. I figure the spawn animation takes between half a second to a full second. That is an extra second in which a camper can get a bead on your head without you being able to do anything about it. I also think it takes about 2 seconds after spawn to spin around, see who is nearby, and try to get someone in your sights. So again, I suggest a 2 second timer in which a spawn death will receive no reward. Also, re-killing someone immediately after a revive shouldn't inflate some campers kill total. No honor = no reward. (But this should combine with ability to administer a coup de grace, I think.) It doesn't mean that you can't keep a position suppressed from others spawning in while you do what's necessary to secure an objective. It means you won't get a reward for hanging out around a CRU of objective just capping anything that spawns in...so go ahead and hack the CRU and move on. The intent is to focus the game back on good tactics rather than cheap tricks. And it won't be Planetside 2 or Section 8 Prejudice (The game I was talking about). It will be Dust, but it will be Dust for the better. At the earliest stage of the game it didn't have tanks, does that mean that adding tanks doesn't make it Dust anymore? Look at the other thread, where the idea I suggested in THIS thread was welcomed with open arms. It basicly had the same idea I'm proposing here, the modules and dropsuits are just in addition, if CCP wants to do it. It all comes down to CCP in the end.
CaptBuckle 3dge of D4rkness SoulWing Alliance 10	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:13:00 - [9] - Quote Yup. Just re-read the thread you were talking about, and it was the same thread on which I twice commented. And I didn't see it "welcomed with open arms". Nearly everyone that commented was cautiously skeptical, at best...especially the other people that had played Section 8. And you're talking about 12 new skills, equivalent to an "x43" count of skillpoints, 10 modules and at least 4 new dropsuits. And if those 12 skills aren't pursued, in addition to all of the other basic skills already in the game...then you're pretty much screwed. So I stand by my original position that you are talking about a bunch of added complexity just to try to make a Section 8 knockoff in the EVE universe. Still don't like it. Would you be kind enough, ArMaGeDoN, to stop trying to twist my thread into an argument for your own? Thanks.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.25 21:21:00 - [10] - Quote CaptBuckle wrote: Yup. Just re-read the thread you were talking about, and it was the same thread on which I twice commented. And I didn't see it "welcomed with open arms". Nearly everyone that commented was cautiously skeptical, at best...especially the other people that had played Section 8. And you're talking about 12 new skills, equivalent to an "x43" count of skillpoints, 10 modules and at least 4 new dropsuits. And if those 12 skills aren't pursued, in addition to all of the other basic skills already in the game...then you're pretty much screwed. So I stand by my original position that you are talking about a bunch of added complexity just to try to make a Section 8 knockoff in the EVE universe. Still don't like it. Would you be kind enough, ArMaGeDoN, to stop trying to twist my thread into an argument for your own? Thanks. No, I'm talking about another thread, not the one I opened. And about the skills: ITS OPTIONAL, IT ISN'T REQUIRED FOR CCP TO ADD THOSE SKILLS. I only ask for the barebonse, if they want to expand on it they can use the modules skills and dropsuits I proposed, otherwise just spawning in the air would be good enough. Plus it makes more sense, Drop uplinks teleport you using quantum science stuff, null cannons don't have that. So it would be more logical for you to drop from the air.



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