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KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
   |
Posted - 2012.12.21 04:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
EDIT: Post is somewhat obsolete as it didn't consider CQC combat with TAR used hipfiring - that way damage increase is NOT the correct way to fix.
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AR's are, in my opinion so far 2 days into this build, still the main weapon for most situations and which everyone's gonna be training.
TAR, on the other hand, ARE hit too heavily. Why and how?
This is first time that kind of recoil and kick is implemented, it is now in game for testing.
Very true you prolly can hit a target consistently (lucky and bad streaks barred) about once a second. Which is kinda low amount.
Now, remember the description on TAR's: single fired LOW DAMAGE shots.
Wouldn't it sound like it's time to up the damage on TAR shots?
If you are going to get only few hits, they should be useful. Please remember TAR takes skill more than before to use, that justifies the damage increase (which shouldn't be granted on light basis.)
Please discuss. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 05:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
Now skip the description of it cause its not up to date. Go to the stats tab and you see it allready has the biggest firepower off all AR's. It was like that on the E3 build where it has good range but low firepower but that changed like 2 builds ago. A clear no to damage increase. When they would do even more damage why would we need then scramber rifles? (which will come someday) |
Los Silencio
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
123
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 05:34:00 -
[3] - Quote
As a dedicated TAC rifle user since the first build (when Creodron's AR was considered OP), I would say that damage on it is fine, if not slightly higher than it should have been last build. I was always against raising the damage on it because it just seemed way to over powered imo. Again, keep in mind that this AR has been my main since day 1. Now, with that said, the recoil on it makes it way too unstable and ultimately unusable. I have always been one to prefer accuracy/stability over raw damage. If you have test fired the new TAC with the added recoil, your first bullet hits and the rest will dance around your target. It honestly loses the "tactical" title now. The fact that they kept the scope on it was a nice gesture and much appreciated, but it doesn't entice me to pick it up atm. Being in a beta is nice because I can expand and try out other weapons, but having spent a couple million SP into my AR skills and not benefitting from them made me rage a little. It's all good though. I will adapt.
My suggestion instead would be to dial down the damage yet again and instead lessen the recoil. It doesn't necessarily have to have zero recoil like in the previous build, just less kick per shot so that it can have a more "tactical" feel to it again. It was always the hardest AR to manually use anyway, as you had to work your trigger finger for every shot. Reduce damage, reduce recoil to keep it fair and to make people actually want to use it. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
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Posted - 2012.12.21 05:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
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Los Silencio
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2012.12.21 05:52:00 -
[5] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
Here is the thing though, bro. It is extremely hard to differentiate between a modded controller and a person with a quick trigger finger. Dial down the ROF? Sure thing if you think it will help identify cheaters, but modded controller is modded controller. It will still fire faster than your liking anyway, am I right? I have been accused of using one but the truth is I have a family, bills etc. You want to stop people using them? Find a way to report them. From what I hear, CCP can identify that. My response to ppl who send me hate mail accusing me of that? "Send in a ticket to have CCP do an investigation. They won't find anything". I never get a message back. Not from CCP and not from them. |
DarkShadowFox
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
238
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 06:41:00 -
[6] - Quote
Los Silencio wrote:DarkShadowFox wrote:TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
Here is the thing though, bro. It is extremely hard to differentiate between a modded controller and a person with a quick trigger finger. Dial down the ROF? Sure thing if you think it will help identify cheaters, but modded controller is modded controller. It will still fire faster than your liking anyway, am I right? I have been accused of using one but the truth is I have a family, bills etc. You want to stop people using them? Find a way to report them. From what I hear, CCP can identify that. My response to ppl who send me hate mail accusing me of that? "Send in a ticket to have CCP do an investigation. They won't find anything". I never get a message back. Not from CCP and not from them.
regardless their not going to be dialed back up and the ar's were balance so every gun has a situation, even if people are accusing you, I am sorry, but CCP did it to make this game fair to everyone, especially new players and for god sakes we know people were abusing the modded controller thing. when someone goes 20 and 0 or even 50 and 0 with a tactical, than you have an issue. |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
253
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 07:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:
regardless their not going to be dialed back up and the ar's were balance so every gun has a situation, even if people are accusing you, I am sorry, but CCP did it to make this game fair to everyone, especially new players and for god sakes we know people were abusing the modded controller thing. when someone goes 20 and 0 or even 50 and 0 with a tactical, than you have an issue.
There are so many more factors determining what kind of score you'll have than how fast your gun fires. Cry more. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 09:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
Wrong, Rof didnt move an intch. They just added a crazy recoil that renders the weapon difficult to use at long range, killing its purpose. A real ROF nerf would have rendered the weapon useless at short range and with modded cheatrollers while maintaining its perk as long range dedicated rifle.
In chromosome, TAC AR remains a good short\med range hip fire weapon if you know how to use it, but is 100% crap at long range.
Also: modded controllers users werent that present. I used and made rampage with tac AR and i didnt need any modded ****. click like hell and with the no recoil, overpowered hip-fire from codex you were doing a mess. |
G Torq
ALTA B2O
88
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 12:10:00 -
[9] - Quote
Shouldn't the TAR have
- high hip-fire recoil
- relatively low scoped recoil
- medium rate-of-fire (lower than regular ARs)
- current (high) damage
?
This should limit its usefulness in close-quarter combat, while keeping the rong-range purpose intact.
As for modded controllers, does that include e.g. the Sony Sharpshooter (has a switch to change trigger behaviour) ?
/G |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 13:51:00 -
[10] - Quote
Before the patch Tactial rifles were the best, pretty much.
I don't have a modded controller and I can fire it full auto.
So NO to more damage, the kick addition is welcome. |
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Los Silencio
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
123
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Posted - 2012.12.21 17:13:00 -
[11] - Quote
DarkShadowFox wrote:Los Silencio wrote:DarkShadowFox wrote:TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
Here is the thing though, bro. It is extremely hard to differentiate between a modded controller and a person with a quick trigger finger. Dial down the ROF? Sure thing if you think it will help identify cheaters, but modded controller is modded controller. It will still fire faster than your liking anyway, am I right? I have been accused of using one but the truth is I have a family, bills etc. You want to stop people using them? Find a way to report them. From what I hear, CCP can identify that. My response to ppl who send me hate mail accusing me of that? "Send in a ticket to have CCP do an investigation. They won't find anything". I never get a message back. Not from CCP and not from them. regardless their not going to be dialed back up and the ar's were balance so every gun has a situation, even if people are accusing you, I am sorry, but CCP did it to make this game fair to everyone, especially new players and for god sakes we know people were abusing the modded controller thing. when someone goes 20 and 0 or even 50 and 0 with a tactical, than you have an issue.
You obviously have selective hearing or, in this case, reading. I stated that I was AGAINST raising the damage any further. Hell, I didn't even like it when they raised the damage on Codex. I suggested a drop in damage in exchange for slightly less recoil. As far as your "20-0 then there is an issue" comment, my personal best was a 45-8 game. I have even seen Satori put up a 50-9 game and I know FOR A FACT that he just has incredible skill because I have played against him in MAG. Maybe it's hard for you to accept the fact that sometimes, people are just that skilled. People got killed with a TAC last build and the first thing they cried was "modded controller". I have seen tank drivers go 40-0. You gonna call "nerf" or "modded controller" on them next? Your entire post is invalid, sir. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2012.12.21 22:29:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ok, I gotta admit I didn't consider TAR used in CQC with hipfire while writing the first post.
Obviously damage increase is NOT the way to fix TAR - if the hipfire is gonna be with the same recoil as scoped fire, as that would make it perhaps too strong in CQC (remember, it still has smallest clip).
If scoped vision would have slighlty less recoil, that might be enough. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation
Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 00:24:00 -
[13] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Ok, I gotta admit I didn't consider TAR used in CQC with hipfire while writing the first post.
Obviously damage increase is NOT the way to fix TAR - if the hipfire is gonna be with the same recoil as scoped fire, as that would make it perhaps too strong in CQC (remember, it still has smallest clip).
If scoped vision would have slighlty less recoil, that might be enough.
Its fine as is.
HTFU, I make use of it easily, just don't fire uber fast because that's not what the weapon is supposed to do. |
Eternal Tyrant
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.22 15:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
I agree that it's not the damage that's the issue but the recoil.
When using it in battle, I found myself thinking "this doesn't feel like a tactical rifle to me, more like a cheap hangun".
I do also wonder if the gun would feel more specialised if the maximum ROF was lowered and the damage raised (keeping the maximum achievable damage per second - or however it's calculated - the same). I'm talking fairly small adjustments here. As it is, it's possible to take down an opponent in CQC by button mashing, which seems a bit wrong to me.
TAR's should encourage the weilder to take on combat situations at the range where other ARs struggle, but with the current recoil and ROF/Damage combination the effectiveness seems to be low to moderate at medium range, low at short range but potentially high in CQC. Obviously that's a rather general assessment and largely based on the vast hordes of AR's that are encountered. |
SATORI CORUSCANTi
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz
RISE of LEGION
253
|
Posted - 2012.12.23 00:18:00 -
[15] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Ok, I gotta admit I didn't consider TAR used in CQC with hipfire while writing the first post.
Obviously damage increase is NOT the way to fix TAR - if the hipfire is gonna be with the same recoil as scoped fire, as that would make it perhaps too strong in CQC (remember, it still has smallest clip).
If scoped vision would have slighlty less recoil, that might be enough. Its fine as is. HTFU, I make use of it easily, just don't fire uber fast because that's not what the weapon is supposed to do.
"Making do" is not the issue. The issue is there is nothing the tact rifle does that another gun does not do better. Killing people at range? Laser rifle. Killing people at longer range? Sniper rifle. Killing people medium/close range? Other ARs. |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
219
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:DarkShadowFox wrote:TAR's have enough damage as is, they were nefed in terms of ROF to prevent all the people with modded controllers from getting a push to win button...
Wrong, Rof didnt move an intch. They just added a crazy recoil that renders the weapon difficult to use at long range, killing its purpose. A real ROF nerf would have rendered the weapon useless at short range and with modded cheatrollers while maintaining its perk as long range dedicated rifle. In chromosome, TAC AR remains a good short\med range hip fire weapon if you know how to use it, but is 100% crap at long range. Also: modded controllers users werent that present. I used and made rampage with tac AR and i didnt need any modded ****. click like hell and with the no recoil, overpowered hip-fire from codex you were doing a mess.
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