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Battle Situations all but destroyed

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Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:26:00 - [1] - Quote well, congrats CCP, with your new update, you just destroyed 1/3 of the possible battle engagements between players. With the removal of the "scope" on AR's, you all but destroyed mid range battles, as you can no longer tell who is in your effective range, and the easy ability to lose an enemy in your iron sights at range. SO, what you have done, is made engagements b/t players all CQB situation (ie: longer CoD type battles), or sniper-fest. THere is no more middle ground to engage players. In playing last few hours, i have yet to engage anyone beyond 10-15m. This also causes the sharpshooter skill to essentially be worthless, as even though the TAR still has its scope, the recoil per shot doesn't allow for mid range engagements as it should. So yeah, i understand if there is customization coming; but until it is readily available, give us out sights back to actually use an AR at mid-range like we have been for the past 8 MONTHS
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:30:00 - [2] - Quote um.... The scope was a highly requested feature. 80% of the playerbase complained that the zoom in camera gun view was stupid. Sorry if you just found out your in the minority. Also you'll be able to buy different scopes so what are you complaining about?
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:35:00 - [3] - Quote ahhh; can i get a new scope now in the current build? no do all other weapons that use a scope still have them? yes do weapons still have a zoom mode that doesnt inhibit there abilities? yes So yeah, i agree the camera mode was stupid; but it was helpful compared to the rubbish iron sights we now have. So, unless CCP is adding a new scope in a hotfix VERY soon, the entire game dynamic is hindered; as like i said, you removed 1/3 of the battle types from the game
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:35:00 - [4] - Quote I'm enjoying the iron sights, and to be honest it hasn't seemed to affect my 40 meter and farther game all that much.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:38:00 - [5] - Quote 80% of the community are window licking twats. I can't wait to get on, test some thing's, and have a huge QQ session.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:41:00 - [6] - Quote Have not played yet, still downloading, but I would recommend the laser rifle for mid range "middle ground" stuff.
Belzeebub Santana SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 409	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:43:00 - [7] - Quote "Window licking twats", omg so funny, good laugh thanks
semperfi1999 Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 317	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:46:00 - [8] - Quote I am interested in testing things myself but I have to admit I thought the previous sights were just fine. There is noting wrong with the (camera mode) as some people called it. Who cares that the scopes dont look like current scopes its in the future....you can make up whatever you want. But you really think the future will have iron sights on its weaponry? Most likely if there are powered suits our sighting mechanics would be on the suit itself as the weapon would communicate with the suit. I could easily see that iron sights will definitely stop almost all mid-long range battles with the AR. Hipfire for the win!
Cyn Bruin Imperfects Negative-Feedback 651	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:47:00 - [9] - Quote crazy space wrote: um.... The scope was a highly requested feature. 80% of the playerbase complained that the zoom in camera gun view was stupid. Sorry if you just found out your in the minority. Also you'll be able to buy different scopes so what are you complaining about? You do realise that this game takes place in the.... FUTURE? Iron sights should have no place in it. I like the new build, it seems very stable and smooth. Some good features added as well... The camera scope for ARs was... not good. But iron sights are even worse for a futuristic shooter. We need some kind of scope besides camera or iron sights. YES new scopes are coming, but they arent here yet.
Obama DAT Doomheim 389	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:47:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah it's hard to understand why they would remove a feature that was not broken. I thought New Eden was set in the future? Why are there iron sights at all?

Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:49:00 - [11] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ahhh; can i get a new scope now in the current build? no do all other weapons that use a scope still have them? yes do weapons still have a zoom mode that doesnt inhibit there abilities? yes So yeah, i agree the camera mode was stupid; but it was helpful compared to the rubbish iron sights we now have. So, unless CCP is adding a new scope in a hotfix VERY soon, the entire game dynamic is hindered; as like i said, you removed 1/3 of the battle types from the game Really? Assault Rifles are 1/3 of the battle types? So you're saying a third of all combat in DUST is meant to be infantry vs. infantry at the low end of mid-range, with nobody using Mass Drivers, SMGs or Laser Rifles? Cool story.
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:52:00 - [12] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ahhh; can i get a new scope now in the current build? no do all other weapons that use a scope still have them? yes do weapons still have a zoom mode that doesnt inhibit there abilities? yes So yeah, i agree the camera mode was stupid; but it was helpful compared to the rubbish iron sights we now have. So, unless CCP is adding a new scope in a hotfix VERY soon, the entire game dynamic is hindered; as like i said, you removed 1/3 of the battle types from the game Really? Assault Rifles are 1/3 of the battle types? So you're saying a third of all combat in DUST is meant to be infantry vs. infantry at the low end of mid-range, with nobody using Mass Drivers, SMGs or Laser Rifles? Cool story. ROFL, you dont read do you. I didn't say AR's are 1/3 battle types; but their ability to do MID-RANGE combat is 1/3 of battle situations. As for lasers, there arent THAT many compared to AR's; and smgs aren't mid range guns.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 428	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:57:00 - [13] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: do all other weapons that use a scope still have them? yes Name 3 other weapons that use a scope. Sniper Rifle. Swarm Launcher. What only 2? Snipers need a scope and no one uses the Swarm Scope anyways it just shrinks the reticule. You can't really say that all the other weapons with scopes got to keep them, because there are only 2.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 784	Posted - 2012.12.18 18:58:00 - [14] - Quote I just tried the new ironsights. Didn't have much of a problem at midrange. (but then, I have the experience of rocking the ironsights on the pistol 9 months) Sure, they aren't as precise as the old scope... But I find it humorous that the majority of the people complaining about the ironsights are the same people who were asking for the camera scope to be replaced by them. (Not saying you were, beserker! This is just an observation) TBH, This isn't a bad thing. The guns are far from useless at midrange like the OP states, yet they don't -dominate- at all ranges like they used to. This is a good change. It means that other weapons will now be the weapons of choice for people to preferred to stay further out. At least until they finish adding the customization stuff and then AR becomes the FOTM again.
fahrenheitM Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 212	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:02:00 - [15] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: ROFL, you dont read do you. . First off, please leave ROFL out of this, we did nothing! Berserker007 wrote: As for lasers, there arent THAT many compared to AR's. That is about to change.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:07:00 - [16] - Quote Berserker007 wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Berserker007 wrote: ahhh; can i get a new scope now in the current build? no do all other weapons that use a scope still have them? yes do weapons still have a zoom mode that doesnt inhibit there abilities? yes So yeah, i agree the camera mode was stupid; but it was helpful compared to the rubbish iron sights we now have. So, unless CCP is adding a new scope in a hotfix VERY soon, the entire game dynamic is hindered; as like i said, you removed 1/3 of the battle types from the game Really? Assault Rifles are 1/3 of the battle types? So you're saying a third of all combat in DUST is meant to be infantry vs. infantry at the low end of mid-range, with nobody using Mass Drivers, SMGs or Laser Rifles? Cool story. ROFL, you dont read do you. I didn't say AR's are 1/3 battle types; but their ability to do MID-RANGE combat is 1/3 of battle situations. As for lasers, there arent THAT many compared to AR's; and smgs aren't mid range guns. You said that replacing scopes with ironsights has "removed 1/3 of battle types from the game" While not ideal, SMGs can be effective into the closer edges of mid-range with enough SP investment, just like a good player can use a Sniper Rifle effectively at the long end of mid-range even though they're better-suited to long range combat. And even assuming that ARs were the only viable mid-range weapon in the entire game, you still only removed 1/9 of combat scenarios. Long range infantry vs. infantry combat Mid range infantry vs. infantry combat Short range infantry vs. infantry combat Long range infantry vs. vehicle combat Mid range infantry vs. vehicle combat Short range infantry vs. vehicle combat Long range vehicle vs. vehicle combat Mid range vehicle vs. vehicle combat Short range vehicle vs. vehicle combat The infantry vs. vehicle side can (arguably) be counted twice, because you have infantry vs. vehicle and vehicle vs. infantry perspectives within it. So maybe only 1/12 of combat scenarios are based around the use of ARs. Yes, I can read. I'm also able to count. Maybe you should work on that skill instead of pointing at others.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:09:00 - [17] - Quote Obama DAT wrote: Yeah it's hard to understand why they would remove a feature that was not broken. I thought New Eden was set in the future? Why are there iron sights at all? Because this is a beta and you have to wait for **** Not to mention the Caldari AR and Ammar AR are coming out in the next build, so maybe you should grow up and wait.Commenting on how a single gun can't do everything when the game isn't done is nonsense
Go Away Putz Doomheim 11	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:11:00 - [18] - Quote It did throw me for a bit. I had to go spend precious SP to get AR up and to get the lethality back. I was running a straight militia build because this character needs her ISK and SP for other reasons. I prefer scopes versus iron sights. If I can upgrade the AR to a scoped version I will do it. BUT! That will mean burning more SP for something other then the plan. However, SP had to be spent on AR Op, Lt Weapon Cap, Reload, Sharp and upgrade. Then add a light damage module. Now it is nearly back to yesterday. Was frustrating to spend the SP and to burn down a module slot.
crazy space ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:12:00 - [19] - Quote Go Away Putz wrote: It did throw me for a bit. I had to go spend precious SP to get AR up and to get the lethality back. I was running a straight militia build because this character needs her ISK and SP for other reasons. I prefer scopes versus iron sights. If I can upgrade the AR to a scoped version I will do it. BUT! That will mean burning more SP for something other then the plan. However, SP had to be spent on AR Op, Lt Weapon Cap, Reload, Sharp and upgrade. Then add a light damage module. Now it is nearly back to yesterday. Was frustrating to spend the SP and to burn down a module slot. Or you could of used skill and practiced, got better and not spent that sp
TiMeSpLiT--TeR Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 326	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:13:00 - [20] - Quote Did they already mentioned that there are going to be scope variation? Soon?

Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:14:00 - [21] - Quote I honestly dont have a problem with the iron sights. Reddots and other **** will get added in later so I'm not worried about them.
charlesnette dalari Creative Killers 159	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:50:00 - [22] - Quote I want iron sights. Damn it CCP you gave me iron sights what the hell were you thinking? I want weapon sight customization Damn it CCP you started the process of giving me sight customization what the hell were you thinking? You people are seriously the very definition of schizophrenic. CCP the build is great so far thanks for the hard work. Hit detection to me seems improved. Love the new maps. I will test the iron sights and weapon kick to help you BETA TEST the game so you can successfully add new features like sight customization in the next build.
lordjanuz Norwegian Dust514 Corporation 88	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:59:00 - [23] - Quote TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote: Did they already mentioned that there are going to be scope variation? Soon? 2013
CHICAGOCUBS4EVER TeamPlayers 117	Posted - 2012.12.18 19:59:00 - [24] - Quote charlesnette dalari wrote: I want iron sights. Damn it CCP you gave me iron sights what the hell were you thinking? I want weapon sight customization Damn it CCP you started the process of giving me sight customization what the hell were you thinking? You people are seriously the very definition of schizophrenic. CCP the build is great so far thanks for the hard work. Hit detection to me seems improved. Love the new maps. I will test the iron sights and weapon kick to help you BETA TEST the game so you can successfully add new features like sight customization in the next build. way too many 'testers' have yet to understand this simple concept... well said +1
Obama DAT Doomheim 389	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:02:00 - [25] - Quote crazy space wrote: Obama DAT wrote: Yeah it's hard to understand why they would remove a feature that was not broken. I thought New Eden was set in the future? Why are there iron sights at all? Because this is a beta and you have to wait for **** Not to mention the Caldari AR and Ammar AR are coming out in the next build, so maybe you should grow up and wait.Commenting on how a single gun can't do everything when the game isn't done is nonsense I just thought the idea of a new "build" was to build on the good things and remove the bad? If it's not broken, why remove it? For curiosity sake what does growing up and waiting have to do with my statement? Ad hominen attacks upon posters is a poor way to communicate.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:11:00 - [26] - Quote Obama DAT wrote: crazy space wrote: Obama DAT wrote: Yeah it's hard to understand why they would remove a feature that was not broken. I thought New Eden was set in the future? Why are there iron sights at all? Because this is a beta and you have to wait for **** Not to mention the Caldari AR and Ammar AR are coming out in the next build, so maybe you should grow up and wait.Commenting on how a single gun can't do everything when the game isn't done is nonsense I just thought the idea of a new "build" was to build on the good things and remove the bad? If it's not broken, why remove it? For curiosity sake what does growing up and waiting have to do with my statement? Ad hominen attacks upon posters is a poor way to communicate. Part of the purpose of a new beta build is to work towards the game's intended final release state. The intended release state of DUST 514 includes weapon customisation. Weapon customisation when all the ARs already come with high-powered scopes will be limited by their presence, and making people "pay" in any form to REMOVE the sight is obviously a stupid idea. Converting weapons to a customisable state is a logical step in the progression towards how the game is meant to be on release. They did it to the AR first because of a range of reasons, probably more than i'm aware of, but I'll list a few anyway: 1. The most-used weapon type in the game is the Assault Rifle. Changing that weapon will give a better measure of how ironsights will affect gameplay than changing any other single weapon type. 2. ARs are the weapon best-suited to the use of ironsights. They have a long enough effective range that aiming down the sights is important for a large portion of their effective range, but also a fast enough fire rate to suit closer-range battles than weapons like Sniper Rifles. 3. A huge amount of complaints have been consistently leveled at the AR's scope view, with the majority of complaints recommending a change to ironsights as a solution. As I said, there are probably a lot of other reasons, but those are pretty obvious and logical ones that I can't see any solid argument against.
Ghost Mason Grupo de Asalto Chacal CRONOS. 38	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:14:00 - [27] - Quote Obama DAT wrote: crazy space wrote: Obama DAT wrote: Yeah it's hard to understand why they would remove a feature that was not broken. I thought New Eden was set in the future? Why are there iron sights at all? Because this is a beta and you have to wait for **** Not to mention the Caldari AR and Ammar AR are coming out in the next build, so maybe you should grow up and wait.Commenting on how a single gun can't do everything when the game isn't done is nonsense I just thought the idea of a new "build" was to build on the good things and remove the bad? If it's not broken, why remove it? For curiosity sake what does growing up and waiting have to do with my statement? Ad hominen attacks upon posters is a poor way to communicate. Because too many people were crying about how much they didn't like the camara scope (not including me) so they just change it for almost all the rifles so the people that complained could "be happy" and hold it until they introduce scope customization next build
Ryder Azorria Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 134	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:47:00 - [28] - Quote crazy space wrote: um.... The scope was a highly requested feature. 80% of the playerbase complained that the zoom in camera gun view was stupid. Sorry if you just found out your in the minority. Also you'll be able to buy different scopes so what are you complaining about? 80% of the player base makes up fake statistics too The majority of players either liked the old scope, or at least thought it was better than damn iron sights. It's just a shame the iron sight wanting crazy people happened to whine the loudest.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:51:00 - [29] - Quote ok so its just me that gets a choice of scope depending on which AR i use?
Obama DAT Doomheim 389	Posted - 2012.12.18 20:56:00 - [30] - Quote SGT Garrisson wrote: ok so its just me that gets a choice of scope depending on which AR i use? You have a choice? Go on...

SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.12.18 21:08:00 - [31] - Quote yea exile assault has iron balacs has iron gk-13 burst camera allotek burst has camera not looked at the breach ones yet
Wakko03 Better Hide R Die 134	Posted - 2012.12.18 21:16:00 - [32] - Quote You know what, the tank drivers said they weren't over-powered, the dropship pilots said the same damn thing, now everyone under the sun is suddenly trying to say this is a good thing. I'm not buying it..... you can get someone else to drink the Kool-aide from Jonestown. CCP has only vaguely hinted at weapon customization, there is nothing in the menu's to suggest it is coming, there is nothing in the skill tree that will cover it..... it is not in game. I got people in here asking about the scopes, ahhh Lazer rifles would be your third weapon. And smgs at least still have a sort-of red dot. But then you got all the fat suited HMG's guys just spitting out round after round now picking us off at farther ranges than we can see, and they don't have to worry about it because they have enough ammo in the clip to produce a spread effect and kill us. Not to mention grenades are also borked too. Just admit it CCP, you want everyone trying to run each other over in LAV's and then jump out wearing a HMG, when not fighting each other in tanks.
William HBonney Imperfects Negative-Feedback 318	Posted - 2012.12.18 22:34:00 - [33] - Quote They killed my pistol....sort of. I have seen many people pick up the laser now because it is the only medium to long range weapon available. The iron sights are really messing with some people because I shouldn't be able to still kill them with my uber nerfed pistol.
A TASTY SANDWICH Algintal Core Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2012.12.18 22:59:00 - [34] - Quote charlesnette dalari wrote: I want iron sights. Damn it CCP you gave me iron sights what the hell were you thinking? I want weapon sight customization Damn it CCP you started the process of giving me sight customization what the hell were you thinking? You people are seriously the very definition of schizophrenic. CCP the build is great so far thanks for the hard work. Hit detection to me seems improved. Love the new maps. I will test the iron sights and weapon kick to help you BETA TEST the game so you can successfully add new features like sight customization in the next build. ^^This, its like MAG all over again.


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