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Balance of roles: roles and their counters

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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.12.17 00:06:00 - [1] - Quote Deployables logistics Medics Snipers Assaults Heavy assault Tankers 'gunship" dropshippers Spawn dropshippers Support logistics pilots AV Heavy AV etc. How do all of you feel about these roles, and their counters. Are there roles out there that have no effective counters? Are there roles that are too easy to counter? Are there roles that are too hard to counter? Keep in mind the costs associated with each role can act as a balancing factor.
Elijah Sol' Dzusaki Onward Defrosted Tuna Team 485	Posted - 2012.12.17 00:12:00 - [2] - Quote In my opinion, Heavy AV can be a little to easy to counter as the forge gun makes the user vulnerable while it charges. But then again its maybe fine as it is. Once that new AV is introduced people probably won't care about the forge gun anymore. Also sniper rifles are too easy to use.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.17 00:13:00 - [3] - Quote Here's what I figure the most effective counter is for these roles Deployables logistics- assaults & snipers Medics- snipers Snipers- countersnipers, vehicles, heavy AV Assaults- heavy assaults, vehicles Heavy assault- deployables logistics, vehicles Tankers- any AV 'gunship" dropshippers- AV heavies Spawn dropshippers- swarm launchers and forge guns Support logistics pilots- what? AV- assaults, snipers Heavy AV- deployables logistics, assaults I could be more specific, but this is just a quick post
Hauker Due Rubber Chicken Bombers 25	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:07:00 - [4] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Deployables logistics Medics Snipers Assaults Heavy assault Tankers 'gunship" dropshippers Spawn dropshippers Support logistics pilots AV Heavy AV etc. How do all of you feel about these roles, and their counters. Are there roles out there that have no effective counters? Are there roles that are too easy to counter? Are there roles that are too hard to counter? Keep in mind the costs associated with each role can act as a balancing factor. HAVs will be countered when we get a Webs. Keep the tanks from doing any damage at all. Should be interesting...
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:13:00 - [5] - Quote Honestly, there is no proper counter for a sniper. Sure, you could use a tank or dropship, but that's pushing it, and a sniper parked high up somewhere with Sharpshooter Lvl. 5 is impossible to take out without a dedicated counter sniper, which I believe is a flaw in mechanics with a weapon that can be skilled up so powerfully. Also, a sniper is incredibly easy to use at the moment.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:15:00 - [6] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Honestly, there is no proper counter for a sniper. Sure, you could use a tank or dropship, but that's pushing it, and a sniper parked high up somewhere with Sharpshooter Lvl. 5 is impossible to take out without a dedicated counter sniper, which I believe is a flaw in mechanics with a weapon that can be skilled up so powerfully. Also, a sniper is incredibly easy to use at the moment. Wait until artillery, cloaking (works both ways), and bombers.
Icy Tiger Universal Allies Inc. 1026	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:22:00 - [7] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Honestly, there is no proper counter for a sniper. Sure, you could use a tank or dropship, but that's pushing it, and a sniper parked high up somewhere with Sharpshooter Lvl. 5 is impossible to take out without a dedicated counter sniper, which I believe is a flaw in mechanics with a weapon that can be skilled up so powerfully. Also, a sniper is incredibly easy to use at the moment. Wait until artillery, cloaking (works both ways), and bombers. That's the thing, we can just always say "wait until x balances y out", however it still ruins the game until that patch comes out. It's a beta, which is why people are forgiving and are quick to look at the future, but once the game goes live, counter measures need to be placed quick, without people having to wait until the next patch or update.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.17 02:49:00 - [8] - Quote Honest counters for snipers: 1. Movement + Cover. As a fast-moving dropsuit (Assault or better), keep moving, and more importantly, keep moving ERRATICALLY when you're in the open. Don't follow a straight-line path for too long, but at the same time, don't spend too much time out of cover if you can avoid it. If you survive a first shot, you have a vague indication of direction, move to put cover between you and the damage indicator. For every good (non-redlined) sniper position, there are always at least 3 approaches. If you can keep the sniper wasting shots on a teammate they won't hit, you can approach from a different angle and hit them at point-blank before they see you coming. This leads me to... 2. Teamwork. Obviously, 2 people working together > 1 sniper. 3. Vehicles. LAVs aren't as solid a counter as Dropships, and Dropships aren't as effective as HAVs, but all 3 vehicle types are less vulnerable than infantry. HAVs pretty much offer total immunity to Sniper Rifles.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.12.17 03:08:00 - [9] - Quote Counter to snipers = experimental sniper rifle. Now, I've used this thing for counter sniping a bit. It's not easy. Projectile time and drop will make sniping only for the skilled. The problem is, no sniper uses it, because it's rubbish damage. Seriously, they should up the damage to something silly like 350 and leave it as a militia weapon. Then we could see some real feedback about it. Scouts are just LoLbad. Medic mechanics need to with regards to reviving people, who then stand still to be sniped for 2 seconds before the game allows them to move. Gunship Dropships no longer exist (this is a GOOD thing). The only effective role I see having it tough is the top end heavy, due to end game Hp vs end game assault suit hp. Proto heavy should have 4 low slots. Job done. The only role I see having it too easy? Redline Railtanks. Only counter is to stealth drop forges behind the tank in the red. It's suicide, but the only other counter is another Railtank.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.12.17 03:25:00 - [10] - Quote I'm also glad gunship dropships are no longer there.

Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.17 03:30:00 - [11] - Quote Not everything needs a hard counter.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 886	Posted - 2012.12.17 04:59:00 - [12] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not everything needs a hard counter. Actually it does or it throws the balance off and then you'll get the OP complaints, which would be justifiable.
Spkr4theDead Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 22	Posted - 2012.12.17 05:13:00 - [13] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not everything needs a hard counter. Actually it does or it throws the balance off and then you'll get the OP complaints, which would be justifiable. Not like any of you know how to counter vehicles.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.12.17 08:48:00 - [14] - Quote Some things don't need a hard counter, like drop links and nano hives. Both sides have them and they can be done without as well. i also don't think we need a special anti-nova knife role to prevent them being overpowered. Things like hmg heavies, long distance snipers, cqc scouts, and hav do need counters. Scrambler pistol fits may work for some, but nobody needs to spec into anti-pistol. A lot of sniper stay to close to fight, tac ar kills them before they get a second shot off. Some are close enough a regular ar is in effective range. Makes me wonder why they thought they could run till they were 60m away, kneel and stand still near a group of enemy assault fits, lol. Snipers also have tunnel vision, If you see one on map edge go to the side well of to there flank and approach them perpendicular. Often you can get close enough to get a melee kill without sniper knowing somebody is on his/her mountain top.
Denak Kalamari CrimeWave Syndicate 80	Posted - 2012.12.17 09:12:00 - [15] - Quote As others have said, snipers are countered by teamwork(and possibly scouts/heavies). One guy keeps the sniper busy, while the other runs up to the sniper and shoots him in the back before they even knew what happened. If redlining, he should be killed with the Stare of Death(seriously CCP, fix redline camping). And no, scouts are not useless. Get a profile dampener and a shotgun, and you can wreck the enemy team without them even knowing what just happened.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.12.17 13:03:00 - [16] - Quote Hauker Due wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Deployables logistics Medics Snipers Assaults Heavy assault Tankers 'gunship" dropshippers Spawn dropshippers Support logistics pilots AV Heavy AV etc. How do all of you feel about these roles, and their counters. Are there roles out there that have no effective counters? Are there roles that are too easy to counter? Are there roles that are too hard to counter? Keep in mind the costs associated with each role can act as a balancing factor. HAVs will be countered when we get a Webs. Keep the tanks from doing any damage at all. Should be interesting... Yea like HAVs are not weak enough already so lets just not make it move
Iron Wolf Saber BetaMax. 2866	Posted - 2012.12.17 15:58:00 - [17] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Not everything needs a hard counter. Actually it does or it throws the balance off and then you'll get the OP complaints, which would be justifiable. The quoted does not understand the concept of a 'hard' counter.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.12.17 22:56:00 - [18] - Quote Icy Tiger wrote: Scheneighnay McBob wrote: Icy Tiger wrote: Honestly, there is no proper counter for a sniper. Sure, you could use a tank or dropship, but that's pushing it, and a sniper parked high up somewhere with Sharpshooter Lvl. 5 is impossible to take out without a dedicated counter sniper, which I believe is a flaw in mechanics with a weapon that can be skilled up so powerfully. Also, a sniper is incredibly easy to use at the moment. Wait until artillery, cloaking (works both ways), and bombers. That's the thing, we can just always say "wait until x balances y out", however it still ruins the game until that patch comes out. It's a beta, which is why people are forgiving and are quick to look at the future, but once the game goes live, counter measures need to be placed quick, without people having to wait until the next patch or update. That also works both ways- if we balance A B and C out, the brand new D could throw everything out of balance again.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:09:00 - [19] - Quote Elijah Sol' Dzusaki wrote: In my opinion, Heavy AV can be a little to easy to counter as the forge gun makes the user vulnerable while it charges. But then again its maybe fine as it is. Once that new AV is introduced people probably won't care about the forge gun anymore. Also sniper rifles are too easy to use. actualy one of my corp mate was talking about this and suggesting a shield for forge heavies you can walk in the sheild and its only like 120 deg so infantry can still get to you but it reduces damage through it while charging by like 90%. Making Heavy AV stronger against tanks with no real effect on infantry.
fred orpaul Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 211	Posted - 2012.12.18 12:11:00 - [20] - Quote that said I would like my tank AV shotgun returned. does any one know why they they removed no lock fire from swarms?? its not like they could hurt infantry anyways but you also wernt compleatly screwed if a vehicle rolled up on you.



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