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ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.15 23:38:00 -
[1] - Quote
"[FEEDBACK] Snipers and Experimental Sniper - feedback on snipers and their possible fixes in the future to make them more dynamic. Update: The dev team is working on improving the sniper recoil bug, expect that in later updates. We are also looking at sniper rifles with ballistics properties. " If you have it for snipers, that means the code already exists and you only have to tweak it a bit for other weapons. So please when you add sniper ballistics, add ballistics to all the other weapons. And remove those dissapearing bullets, they're annoying, instead make a firing cone, after optimal range the cone would be too big to hit something reliably. |
1CLIP 1KILL
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.12.16 00:24:00 -
[2] - Quote
This reminds me of my physics professor shooting a falling monkey with a laser-sighted railgun
On a related note, most of the weapons in dust do not use bullets. If they put in artillery, I'm sure they'd give that ballistics. I'd love mobile artillery! Air burst plasma shells ftw. If you want the mechanic, I'd bet it's what's used on the mass driver. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1594
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Posted - 2012.12.16 00:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
Too much calculating for the server. The tranquility server is already having to deal with massive amounts of data in a single minute. Think about. In a single minute...
1. Tens of thousands of transactions will have been completed. Be it exchange contracts, market buy orders and sell orders, direct player-to-player ISK transfers.
2. God knows how many missiles and rounds of ammunition are being fired from every ship in New Eden in this time frame. Not to mention having to take into account each player's skill levels that effect speed, flight time, rate of fire, damage, damage type, etc. Imagine a fleet of Drakes unleashing tons of missiles in a single battle.
3. Thousands of ships destroyed. Every wreck generated for every destroyed ship with the appropriate amount of loot dropped according to what each specific ship has fitted at the time of its demise.
4. The location and speed of every ship in New Eden.
5. Hundreds of thousands of gate jumps.
This is all just for starters. This is not accounting planetary interaction management, production chains, POS management, mining ships and the amount of ore mined, number of NPC rats and their AI, etc.
Bad enough DUST 514 will be adding to that. Bullet trajectory is just too much even with better hardware. |
Villore Isu
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
115
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Posted - 2012.12.16 01:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Too much calculating for the server. The tranquility server is already having to deal with massive amounts of data in a single minute. Think about. In a single minute...
1. Tens of thousands of transactions will have been completed. Be it exchange contracts, market buy orders and sell orders, direct player-to-player ISK transfers.
2. God knows how many missiles and rounds of ammunition are being fired from every ship in New Eden in this time frame. Not to mention having to take into account each player's skill levels that effect speed, flight time, rate of fire, damage, damage type, etc. Imagine a fleet of Drakes unleashing tons of missiles in a single battle.
3. Thousands of ships destroyed. Every wreck generated for every destroyed ship with the appropriate amount of loot dropped according to what each specific ship has fitted at the time of its demise.
4. The location and speed of every ship in New Eden.
5. Hundreds of thousands of gate jumps.
This is all just for starters. This is not accounting planetary interaction management, production chains, POS management, mining ships and the amount of ore mined, number of NPC rats and their AI, etc.
Bad enough DUST 514 will be adding to that. Bullet trajectory is just too much even with better hardware. Which is why actual battles won't be hosted on TQ, but on one of many global battle servers.
Regardless, too much extra lag for something that'll make no difference most of the time and just annoy everyone when it does. |
Firestorm Zulu
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
158
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 01:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:"[FEEDBACK] Snipers and Experimental Sniper - feedback on snipers and their possible fixes in the future to make them more dynamic. Update: The dev team is working on improving the sniper recoil bug, expect that in later updates. We are also looking at sniper rifles with ballistics properties. " If you have it for snipers, that means the code already exists and you only have to tweak it a bit for other weapons. So please when you add sniper ballistics, add ballistics to all the other weapons. And remove those dissapearing bullets, they're annoying, instead make a firing cone, after optimal range the cone would be too big to hit something reliably.
No RBS. Recoil. |
WHz DS9899
Doomheim
136
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Posted - 2012.12.16 01:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
There adding projectiles, so this will most likely be in the works already |
Lilah Silverstone
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
22
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Posted - 2012.12.16 01:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I think they mentioned they were working on it somewhere. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 05:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Too much calculating for the server. The tranquility server is already having to deal with massive amounts of data in a single minute. Think about. In a single minute...
1. Tens of thousands of transactions will have been completed. Be it exchange contracts, market buy orders and sell orders, direct player-to-player ISK transfers.
2. God knows how many missiles and rounds of ammunition are being fired from every ship in New Eden in this time frame. Not to mention having to take into account each player's skill levels that effect speed, flight time, rate of fire, damage, damage type, etc. Imagine a fleet of Drakes unleashing tons of missiles in a single battle.
3. Thousands of ships destroyed. Every wreck generated for every destroyed ship with the appropriate amount of loot dropped according to what each specific ship has fitted at the time of its demise.
4. The location and speed of every ship in New Eden.
5. Hundreds of thousands of gate jumps.
This is all just for starters. This is not accounting planetary interaction management, production chains, POS management, mining ships and the amount of ore mined, number of NPC rats and their AI, etc.
Bad enough DUST 514 will be adding to that. Bullet trajectory is just too much even with better hardware. This comes from the assumption that ballistics are heavy on the servers. You don't know that. Do you TRULY know how demanding ballistics are? Because they might not be at all. |
Khal V'Rani
Nephilim Initiative
90
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 11:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Tbh I'm not an expert but I think it goes a little something like this, In games like this every object is tracked. And if they are not programmed to disappear either on collision with another object or after it leaves the screen area they stay until the program is terminated. This eats memory i.e. RAM. If you take Maken's discription and add all of Dust's object instances and interactions that is a hell of a lot of objects to track at a given time because it's not just ballistics being tracked. Now, I imagine CCP's servers are glorious and breathtaking but, given this is suppose to be a persistent universe everything takes a toll on the server memory. If they add ballistics it SHOULD be added to every weapon as appropriate not just sniper rifles. But, they only said they are LOOKING at sniper rifles with ballistic properties. [Assumption] That very well could mean only two or three rifles pushing slugs down range. And it might be limited to only two or three rifles because of the hit the servers would take if everything had ballistics. How many rounds are fired a second in a given match? Multiply that by the number of matches taking place on that particular server as well as every vehicle, dropsuit, environmental effect etc and it adds up real quick. [/assumption] |
1CLIP 1KILL
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
87
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Posted - 2012.12.16 19:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
Lilah Silverstone wrote:I think they mentioned they were working on it somewhere.
If you go to the market and look under turrets, they have categories for artillery and lasers. It would make sense if artillery functions like the Mass Driver.
They shouldn't add ballistics to all weapons because different weapons are different. Lasers, for example, are beams of light. Plasma is plasma, and reacts differently than mass in a solid, liquid, or gas state. I have no idea how they describe firing plasma from a gun, it might even not be when it leaves the gun. You can make plasma with a high power pulsed laser (google LPP, Laser Produced Plasma). I don't know for sure, but I'd bet that adding ballistics to weapons won't be a big drain on the servers. The server has to calculate the trajectory of the regular bullets anyways. Again, there are weapons in UT3/DUST that already use a ballistics mechanic.
I would love to see some physics for a mobile artillery :3. I'm ready to do this right now! I have Mathematica + MATLAB all ready to go on a computer to figure out and compute velocities, air resistance, gravity, angular momentum, etc., etc.! |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
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Posted - 2012.12.16 20:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
CCP has already stated that tracking many rounds would excessively increase sever load so don't expect to see this implemented for any weapon with a high rate of fire and certainly not for common use weapons like the AR or SMG (which is kind of a pity really but honestly minimizing lag is of greater import than implementing ballistics).
0.02 ISK Cross |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 20:54:00 -
[12] - Quote
The ar are plasma weapons, plasma is electrically charged and affected by magnetic field lines. So if accurate physics were used there would be bullet north more then drop, as they headed for the north pull like a compass.
The smg and hmg use bullets but fire so fast it would be a large server load, and with the short range it wouldn't be noticeable other then more lag.
I hope the long range minmatar sniper and rifles will have ballistic arc though.
And the rail based sniper rifle needs travel time, bullet drop would be smaller then dispersion on a real life bullet based sniper so can be ignored. But a running target could travel a few meters in the 1/4 second travel time to max range.
Sniper rifle would have 28cm or 11 inches of drop at 600m at listed muzzle speed, standard issue u.s. army sniper have 1-3 moa or up to 20.6 in or 52cm of dispersion. So the bullet drop is negligible for rail based sniper, if one wanted it could be faked by having any dispersion only lower and never raise the shot. And if there is no dispersion why worry about the drop. Even a moving heavy could move 86cm during flight time though.
Minmatar bullet weapons could have similar ballistics to the bf games for rifles and snipers at least. Smg and hmg not worth trouble being high rof and short range and better if just left hitscan.
I would like a belt feed but low rate of fire light machine gun with ballistic arc for the minmatar main ar equivalent. Many full auto weapons in Borderlands have rate of fire around 120rpm, not much faster then the tac sniper, yet high kick and muzzle flash makes them seem like they fire fast. Even though if you pay attention the semi-auto put out bullets much faster. |
1CLIP 1KILL
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
87
|
Posted - 2012.12.16 22:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:I hope the long range minmatar sniper and rifles will have ballistic arc though.
And the rail based sniper rifle needs travel time, bullet drop would be smaller then dispersion on a real life bullet based sniper so can be ignored. But a running target could travel a few meters in the 1/4 second travel time to max range.
Sniper rifle would have 28cm or 11 inches of drop at 600m at listed muzzle speed, standard issue u.s. army sniper have 1-3 moa or up to 20.6 in or 52cm of dispersion. So the bullet drop is negligible for rail based sniper, if one wanted it could be faked by having any dispersion only lower and never raise the shot. And if there is no dispersion why worry about the drop. Even a moving heavy could move 86cm during flight time though.
Railguns (hand-held) can already fire a projectile at a velocity greater than 3,000 m/s, which faster than the rifle in-game (I believe the in-game rifle is 2,500 m/s, and forge is 7,500 m/s -ish, but not @ my ps right now). That being said, I'm pretty sure the projectile from the sniper rifle fires at a velocity greater than 2,500 m/s. (All velocity measurements taken as the projectile exits the muzzle). I'm pretty sure the projectile has a muzzle velocity higher than the listed value already in game.
Pretending that there are no other external forces on a projectile fired at 2,500 m/s out of the sniper rifle, it would take 0.24 seconds to traverse 600m. According to the internetz, top speed of Usain Bolt is 12.27 m/s. In 0.24 seconds, Usain Bolt could move about 3cm. I'm just going to assume that you took the speed actually listed/used in game for the heavy. I have tried a heavy, and trust me, I do not feel like I am moving at speeds many times faster than Usain Bolt ever could. I guess if the devs add projectiles, they could fix the values listed in text? Maybe if the devs multiply listed values by 10,000 it would be more accurate. It's only 1/4th the speed of light!
Also, the composition of air on the planets and moons is a factor to consider (air resistance, but it may be a different composition of air with a different density), along with the gravitational forces. I'm not sure if the railgun puts a spin on the projectile, which would give it angular momentum, which means that further calculations need to be made. You might even have to factor in the circumference of the planet/moon and the speed at which it is rotating if it's fast enough and the projectile is going far enough, and wind if there is an atmosphere on the planet/moon.
I'd love it if the devs did a quick formula to calculate gravitational forces/air resistance on ballistic projectiles, preferably for artillery only. Sway, recoil, removal of one-way walls, variable scopes, and terrain that is more difficult to hide in should fix snipers imo. If they just add bullet drop, people will aim higher and it will remain the same. Unless the devs add a range calculator to whatever the rifle is aimed at, slower bullet speeds will just make sniping more of a random chance than it needs to be. |
ArMaGeDoN The Cat
Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 13:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well, I hope in the future once we have the PS4/5 and CCP servers are a whole lot more powerful they can implement this. |
tribal wyvern
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
675
|
Posted - 2012.12.19 14:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote:"[FEEDBACK] Snipers and Experimental Sniper - feedback on snipers and their possible fixes in the future to make them more dynamic. Update: The dev team is working on improving the sniper recoil bug, expect that in later updates. We are also looking at sniper rifles with ballistics properties. " If you have it for snipers, that means the code already exists and you only have to tweak it a bit for other weapons. So please when you add sniper ballistics, add ballistics to all the other weapons. And remove those dissapearing bullets, they're annoying, instead make a firing cone, after optimal range the cone would be too big to hit something reliably.
The weapons don't use bullets, its plasma/energy. They are not 'dissapearing bullets', this is the future (on alien planets I may add, with various gravitational properties that wouldn't be able to carry a bullet through the air). How do you think we are able to restock ammo by standing in a nanohive bubble? (Energy bubble), because its energy ammo. The ballistics is not broke, because energy doesnt have ballistics. |
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