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Icy Tiger
Universal Allies Inc.
1026
   |
Posted - 2012.12.15 17:55:00 -
[1] - Quote
I hope you guys know that Friendly Fire, which can be done in this build inadvertently by crashing your dropships and LAV's sometimes, does lead to a -50 WP reduction. I know a lot of people are excited about it and talk about how "I'm gonna kill every blue dot around!", but it does have consequences. |
DTOracle
Universal Allies Inc.
95
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Posted - 2012.12.15 18:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
It needs to -100 or more for TK's. To discourage douche bags from TKing so they can cap an objective instead. |
A TASTY SANDWICH
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.12.15 18:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
It had consequences in MAG as well but when the TK consequences are less than the bonus for capping objectives, TK will happen. Also, griefers will grief just for the fun of it. I like friendly fire. It teaches fire control and dissuades spay and pray. That said, the penalty for TK should be harsh. In a game like DUST simply dying andlosing a dropsuit could be sufficient enough to curb some TKing. There is the problem though at times when some clueless blue dot will wander directly in front of a flashing muzzle and meet his end at no fault of the shooter. Those TKs are hugely aggravating for the dead guy. Even more so for the guy who incurs the TK penalty from someone elses stupidity. |
The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.12.15 19:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once. |
Foley Jones
R.I.f.t
122
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Posted - 2012.12.15 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once.
This guy gots a good point...I say no friendly fire period |
DTOracle
Universal Allies Inc.
95
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Posted - 2012.12.15 20:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
More than likely TKing will be restricted to null sec. I doubt griefers would be willing to sacrifice expensive fits, just for the sake of team killing. Now if they're being paid to sabotage the enemy, that's a different story.  |
Banjo Hero
BurgezzE.T.F
17
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Posted - 2012.12.15 23:11:00 -
[7] - Quote
As much as griefers, objective-thieves and other related turds **** me off, I think friendly fire really does have to be in the game.
The orbitals alone give a great example of an abusable mechanic. Dropping one right on a friendly to clear the letter that he's at of red dots... it's just kind of weak. Really should kill anyone in the area of effect, indiscriminately.
Yeah, being penalized sucks when you accidentally kill a teammate, or some bozo sticks his head in front of your barrel, but, hey, them's the breaks. Look at it this way, the bozo probably just spawned thirty seconds ago wearing his best suit with all the spendy stuff he just spent however much time setting up. And he's probably me. 'Cause I'm stupid. So, sorry for all the points I'll lose y'all by being a moron down the road.
Someone mentioned auto-kick for three TKs, I think ... I think maybe five would be better. Again, bozos jumping up just as you fire your forge gun.
As far as properly punishing d-bags who would kill a teammate just because they want all the points for capturing a thing, and an assist just wouldn't do (sheesh) I dunno. I would kind of like to see their controllers shock them severely if they TK and then hack a thing right afterwards, or maybe the game just bricks their PS3 outright, but I'm a jerk. Maybe something like a base -50 (or whatever) and then a five or ten second timer wherein any points they would get have the sign reversed ;)
I know, these ideas range from the idiotic to the impossible back to the idiotic again, but, what can I say? That kind of player really gets on my nerves, and it's not like this game has the same mechanic as MAG did with objectives. You can help the guy hack it, and you get some points too. If that's not enough for ya, well, I dunno, just go away.
It's really too bad there's no code to detect player intent. |
A TASTY SANDWICH
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.12.16 01:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Banjo Hero wrote:
It's really too bad there's no code to detect player intent.
Agreed |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.12.16 15:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
You can make a friendly fire system intelligent enough that cases of obvious malice get more severely punished than cases where it's likely the person was simply careless. In World of Tanks, another F2P match-based game not unlike Dust, friendly fire is active all the time. The system actually takes several things into account when you shoot an ally however, rather than punishing every instance of friendly fire equally.
For example, if you shoot an ally who is near an enemy, the penalty for that FF is less than if you were to shoot an ally in someplace safe, like your spawn. Similarly, if you shoot an ally one time, the penalty is less, but if you shoot him repeatedly, each successive shot has a greater penalty.
So, the guy who fires a shell at an enemy near you, and you move at the last minute and put yourself in front of your ally's shot, that ally who hit you gets a relatively minor punishment, while if you were to repeatedly shoot an ally at spawn, your punishment would be severe. It is possible to have a degree of malice-detection, then, in a friendly fire system. |
Bucktooth Badger
Buck's Intergalactic Pawn Shop
65
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Posted - 2012.12.16 16:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
I do see FF being 'on' as essential to all FPS games, not just Dust.
However with the ethos of Dust, there is a great opportunity to deal with TKers in a more fair & just manner...by hitting them where it hurts most, their wallets!
If someone caps a friendly, be it deliberate or not, then that player should compensate the other player with an automatic deduction from their wallet of the complete cost of the fitting.
Same applies for AUR items as well, if the TKer doesn't have an AUR then the equivalent ISK is taken.
You could also add a fine of like 10% or whatever for wasting the other players time.
In addition, TKs should be kept on a players profile for all to see. |
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Marston EV
Doomheim
75
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Posted - 2012.12.16 16:49:00 -
[11] - Quote
Foley Jones wrote:The dark cloud wrote:what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once. This guy gots a good point...I say no friendly fire period
TO ALL TO HEAR...... Team killing probably wont be allowed in highsec battles. It might be allowed for Low sec, and it will be allowed for null sec. Orbitals in highsec will obviously only kill enemies but wont be as powerful as null sec ones (because of the grade of ships youll be capable of using in both) Null sec is where youll find your capitals, super caps, and titans practically deathstarring it from above.
As for friendly fire in null sec let me write out a little story..... The enemy is defending their base with all their might, its getting difficult for us to make any ground, the pressure is intense on both sides, suddenly the CO of the attacking side gets a radio call and he emediately Tells all attackers to back off and retreat. The defenders are stumped "where the f**k did they go?" right before a big ship in eve jiz's blew lasers all over them. Then after the havoc the attackers suddenly reappear in LAV hit squads speeding in to mop up the mess..... Imagine how awesome it would feel to be the attackers!!! or on the flip side, imagine a "we were soldiers" scenario, where the defending troops are calling in some major danger close orbital strikes. Sure theres risk that the orbital might hit some teamates but without the orbital they were gonna lose the objective.
I did this today against zion, we were ahead so i told my guys to stay back and just defend C and D (on the four letter map). We were all mostly on C and they had a huge wave of guys running from A to D, but unfortunately for them i just unlocked an orbital strike and had been waiting for the perfect moment to land it on them. BOOM i got a 7 kill spray and that ended their chances of getting D while at the same time allowing our blue dots to run up and take B. (good match btw zion) |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
248
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Posted - 2012.12.16 18:49:00 -
[12] - Quote
Foley Jones wrote:The dark cloud wrote:what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once. This guy gots a good point...I say no friendly fire period
Only squad leaders can do that, and not too often. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
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Posted - 2012.12.16 19:01:00 -
[13] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Foley Jones wrote:The dark cloud wrote:what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once. This guy gots a good point...I say no friendly fire period Only squad leaders can do that, and not too often.
And if a squad leader's dropping an orbital strike on top of friendlies, he deserves the -WP for it.
EDIT: Although it would be nice if the rest of your team got some kind of warning about the explosions that are about to rain down on their heads. Or at least the other squad leaders |
Second Cerberus
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
38
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Posted - 2012.12.16 23:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bucktooth Badger wrote:I do see FF being 'on' as essential to all FPS games, not just Dust.
However with the ethos of Dust, there is a great opportunity to deal with TKers in a more fair & just manner...by hitting them where it hurts most, their wallets!
If someone caps a friendly, be it deliberate or not, then that player should compensate the other player with an automatic deduction from their wallet of the complete cost of the fitting.
Same applies for AUR items as well, if the TKer doesn't have an AUR then the equivalent ISK is taken.
You could also add a fine of like 10% or whatever for wasting the other players time.
In addition, TKs should be kept on a players profile for all to see.
Agree with most of this post. Random TK's are going to happen but killing 3,4, or 5 players a match should never happen. A few elements could make team kills so unrewarding few would do it intentionally. A mix of a few of these ideas would help
1. The shooter is debited the cost of the dead players fit (already mentioned)
2. The shooter receives negative WP for the kill (already in place)
3. The kill does not appear in the dead players kill/death ratio but appears as a death for the shooter
4. Multiple violations result in auto-kick OR
5. Multiple violations result in being flagged as a "red" dot for both teams
6. TK Red Dots are "flagged" on both teams radar and are worth additional WP (100?)
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Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.12.17 04:55:00 -
[15] - Quote
Whatever ideas you have for punishing TK'ers, you need to think of something that would matter to a person who creates an alt for the purposes of TK'ing. Or even someone who plays Dust only to TK, with no serious characters they care about. If I just roll out an alt in starter fits and shoot allies in the head from a foot away repeatedly, what would no ISK matter? What would no SP matter? Sorry, but if you're going to have friendly fire, you'd need to have seriously, obviously egregious and persistent instances of TK'ing put a person's entire account at risk. As in, if you kill enough friendlies in a game you get temporarily suspended, and if you do that too many times, you get permanently banned from Dust.
Without limiting temporarily and, eventually, permanently, their ability to access Dust, you really can't prevent TK'ing from being a regular part of the game. And as nobody likes TK'ing, it would be "a bad thing" to leave friendly fire on with your only penalties being WP and ISK -- two things that really don't matter and wouldn't stop people from TK'ing excessively. Without actual supensions/bans resulting from TK'ing, you really can't automatically punish TK'ing enough to remove it from the game while keeping the good parts of friendly fire, and you may as well just disable friendly fire except for corp battles.
Oh, and again, this is an opinion based on seeing the tremendous success of another F2P game, called World of Tanks, which has friendly fire even in random battles, and yet has minimal TK'ing because you risk your account if you shoot friendlies excessively. |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
914
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Posted - 2012.12.17 05:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
Foley Jones wrote:The dark cloud wrote:what would stop players on alt accounts from keeping team killing? Will we have to see players with -2000WP? I think they just should kick you when you do 3 teamkills. However there is another problem with orbital strikes. At the moment its quite popular to drop them next to enemys and friendlys so that you wipe out a objective. And with that its really easy to teamkill 4-6 guys at once. This guy gots a good point...I say no friendly fire period
CCP has already stated Friendly Fire will be available in null sec. Friendly fire will not happen in low and high, though they have stated as well that eventually it will be on in low sec as well. Basically, where you chose to fight will determine if you have to contend with it. Everyone gets what they want this way. |
Vance Alken
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
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Posted - 2012.12.17 05:27:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hopefully FF is on in all battles, if you don't learn how to shoot in high-sec you'll be useless to null-sec employers. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.12.17 06:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
Vance Alken wrote:Hopefully FF is on in all battles, if you don't learn how to shoot in high-sec you'll be useless to null-sec employers.
Do you really want to have clueless blue dots killing you in pub matches? Do ou want them leaping in front of your gun and causing you a penalty? They are already troublesome enough without making them worse. |
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