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howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
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Posted - 2012.12.14 17:30:00 -
[1] - Quote
What are some of the key mechanics and game structures that will provide for a balancable vibrant economy in dust/eve?
How important do you consider the economic gameplay in Dust?
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howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
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Posted - 2012.12.14 17:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
I feel that DUST, with its organic connection to the what is arguably the gaming industry's most complex and evolved economic system - Eve, has the potential to take competitive simulation to a whole new level.
If success in Dust can be achieved as much through profit as is possible in ccp's perennial product then the potential for long term market growth and longetivity will be ensured.
I would suggest a strong consideration for the sandbox style solutions that Eve exemplifies. For example, regarding the issue of Dust corps being extensively funded by eve corps: I feel it advisable for CCP to provide a negotiable and moderately binding contract and bidding system by which various competitors can vie for isk payouts for missions or tasks. Keep it free-form enough to allow creative financial negotiations but not restrictive to the point of 'economy on rails'.
I like the game concept of being a self-reliant, economically profitable mercanary. I want to make myself profitable first, then contribute to the profit of my corporation while always having the ability to strike at my opponents' bottom line.
I get the adrenaline rushing excitement of the FPS genre. This is my first and I get it. But don't miss this opportunity to design a deep complex strategery-laden economic system that doesn't detract from; nay- enhances, the fast furious chaotic gun game. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
Red Rock Consortium
295
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Posted - 2012.12.14 17:54:00 -
[3] - Quote
The key to the economy of EVE is that the players produce everything. It didn't happen on day one and it's not at 100% quite yet but they add more producible items all the time.
If DUST is to be more than just another FPS that happens to be set in the same universe as EVE then the same thing will need to happen. The materials that are fed into the BPOs will need to come from players. Those materials may be harvested by DUST players using a planetary interaction mechanism like in EVE or something different. Maybe mercenaries have to buy materials from pilots.
To keep it simple for the mercenaries I hope we just buy standard blocks of some manufactured material instead of a bunch of different things. Switching starbases from having a whole stack of things down to fuel blocks made life bearable. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
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Posted - 2012.12.14 18:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
That is a very complicated question. After all, we are talking about integrating one complex economy with another in which both economies have one major difference: the value of the almighty ISK.
In Dust 514, a prototype suit fully equipped can probably cost a merc 100,000 - 200,000 ISK. In Eve Online, a capsuleer can buy a cheap set of small turrets for his Catalyst destroyer for that price.
In Dust 514, an MCC costs at least 125,000,000 ISK. In Eve Online, a capsuleer can buy a Mackinaw mining ship for that price or maybe a Maelstrom battleship instead.
Dust mercs use only cheap, throw-away clones that degrade after 24 hours even they have a nice main clone waiting for them in the merc quarters. This is because their main clones are not cheap at all. Eve Online players however, are more than willing to risk their main clones because they can afford it.
As you can see, the differences in value are huge. Therefore the biggest and most important factor that CCP has to consider before further integrating both economies is to ensure that the ISK flow between the two games is carefully controlled. One way to control the ISK flow is by imposing tariffs on ISK flowing between the two games.
These tariffs would adjust the same way ship insurance payout is adjusted in Eve Online. Based on the monthly report of both economies. In this case, there should be two tariffs.
- Eve ---> Dust : Tariff based on the price index of Dust. If the economy of Dust is weak and a capsuleer wishes to pour in billions of ISK into a merc corp, a large percentage of that transfer is taken away and goes into the ISK sink. If the economy of Dust flourishes and grows to be close to or equal to that of Eve, then the tariff is either really small or non existent.
- Dust ---> Eve : Tariff based on the price index of Eve. Likewise if the economy of Eve is weak and if a merc wants to submit ISK to a capsuleer.
Eventually, maybe 5 years from now or 10 years, both of these economies will reach a state of equilibrium in which ISK flow between the games could result in the tariff being a non-issue. But the tariff would remain to ensure that one economy doesn't get flooded by another which would potentially devalue the ISK in one of the economies. Please keep in mind that this is just for ISK transfers. I have not talked about how the manufacturing sector would be effected and how commodities of two different games will be bought and sold across each other.
If there is anyone out there who has a better idea on how to properly manage two economies that are interacting with either other, please let me know. |
Reav Hannari
Red Rock Outriders
Red Rock Consortium
295
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Posted - 2012.12.14 18:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
The price of mercenary equipment will naturally adjust once the economies are combined. A full prototype dropsuit fitting might jump to 5 mil a pop but the value of contracts could dramatically rise just as well. It could go the other way as well with mercs able to afford to use the good stuff for every spawn.
The current prices of equipment and contract rewards will have no relation to reality once market forces kick in.
I think the only way the free market economy will work is when rookie mercs are able to earn money through PvE or through contracts that limit the high end gear and SP. Maybe the high-sec, low-sec, null-sec tiering of battles. |
howard sanchez
Conspiratus Immortalis
448
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Posted - 2012.12.14 18:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Maken, forgive me not quoting your full post, you make some excellent points.
What I would like to interject is a thought that your reply made occur to me.
You stated that a prototype load-out costs an individual merc roughly the same in isk that an individual privateer spends just on a low priced set of weapons on a ship...not even the cost of defensive, propulsion or accessory modules let alone the price of the ship.
But a battle currently takes place between, say four-sixteen players on a team. If we total the cost of a full teams' load outs, vehicles, installations dropped during the fight...now we are talking about a relatively similar isk level.
The reason I am making this reply is to point out what might be ccp's intended level of isk equivalence between the games.
That's really the puzzle I am working on...how do you balance and thence competively exploit, the isk equation.
I want the equation to balance, or at least lean suggestively towards a balance-able equilibrium. I feel this is a prerequisite to a deeply competitive economics game.
So I will start thinking of isk values, less at the individual merc's levels and slightly more at the level of what it costs a corporation to field a team and complete the mission.
I mean, that's what this is really about, right? How much would the Gallente Federation pay compared to the Caldari State ( fill in protagonist/antagonist entity names as needed) in order for Zion to hold these three planets for the next week...thereby allowing the highest bidder the advantage in flipping or holding the system in which said planets reside.
There must be some level of isk equivalence or this whole concept is for nought.
First to discover the solution to the equation and exploit it gets an edge in the Bigger game...the one after the gun game. |
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