DUST Search - [Feedback] Dust514 Unfair to New PLayers.

GrilledCheese Sandwich wrote:

I have been playing the Dust beta ever since it was released, so I am pretty familiar with the game. Though my friend recently won a beta code through "SLAY" in the PLaystationHome. He was pretty excited to play, though when he did he was extremely disappointed that the fact that no matter how hard he tried or how he did it, he could barely get any kills, SP, and ISK after each game. He claimed that he would be shooting a player for a while and he wouldn't be able to kill them, and that they usually killed him within seconds . I then told him that he needs to earn ISK and SP so he can train up some skills and purchase better gear, but because he couldn't do much in every game, he wouldn't earned enough ISK and SP. Later that day I was paying close attention to the game and the kill feed to see how many militia players would be able to go against a more advanced. Most of them didn't stand a chance, few did get lucky. I thought that maybe they are just not good enough, but then I saw this..

PLayer ELM8(I think thats what it is called Laser Rifle PLayer
(Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player)
(Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player)
(Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player)
(Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player)
(Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player)

That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second...

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GrilledCheese Sandwich Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.12.13 02:53:00 - [1] - Quote I have been playing the Dust beta ever since it was released, so I am pretty familiar with the game. Though my friend recently won a beta code through "SLAY" in the PLaystationHome. He was pretty excited to play, though when he did he was extremely disappointed that the fact that no matter how hard he tried or how he did it, he could barely get any kills, SP, and ISK after each game. He claimed that he would be shooting a player for a while and he wouldn't be able to kill them, and that they usually killed him within seconds . I then told him that he needs to earn ISK and SP so he can train up some skills and purchase better gear, but because he couldn't do much in every game, he wouldn't earned enough ISK and SP. Later that day I was paying close attention to the game and the kill feed to see how many militia players would be able to go against a more advanced. Most of them didn't stand a chance, few did get lucky. I thought that maybe they are just not good enough, but then I saw this.. PLayer ELM8(I think thats what it is called Laser Rifle PLayer (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second...
1CLIP 1KILL Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 87	Posted - 2012.12.13 03:06:00 - [2] - Quote In b4 noob RPers call it "brutal". A match-up system would help that. New players queue against new players... Unfortunately, new players are always at a disadvantage, especially with the SP cap stuff. IMO SP cap should be based on how much SP has been earned. New players earn SP faster than old ones until they have higher totals.
7 SHADOW Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 15	Posted - 2012.12.13 04:19:00 - [3] - Quote EVE is unfair to new players. However, your friend is using bad tactics. My first day I was getting plenty of kills with basic skills and militia gear. Get better.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1594	Posted - 2012.12.13 05:49:00 - [4] - Quote 1. It's a beta. This means that you and your friend can submit your input into the feedback section of the forums if you have any problems with the beta. 2. Before you say that the game is unfair, consider this. There has never been a single multiplayer game out there that has ever been fair. 3. Your friend needs to try harder. You said he only joined recently. In that case he just has to keep on pushing. Do you have any idea how long it took me to a ninja knifer? I can give you three examples. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=40601&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=41545&find=unread https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=44769&find=unread Now that's pushing yourself to the limit. My advice to your friend is to pick a goal and dedicate himself at least one or two months of trying to achieving it no matter how frustrating it may be. Trust me, it will worth it as long as he is determined. How else do you think that player with the ELM8 laser rifle was able to do so many kills? Did you really think he got that good overnight? No. No one here is born that good. We all had to start from the bottom of the food chain and claw our way to the top. That is what Dust 514 is all about... survival of the fittest while the weak are left to die. It's a harsh reality but that's the way the cookie crumbles in New Eden. 4. Tell your friend to focus what little SP he has to a specialized skill set. He may lack in other uses, but he could become efficient in one specialty real quick compared to blindly applying SP on anything that looks 'interesting' over a longer time. This is probably what that 'laser rifle' dude did to get so good. He probably dedicated himself to just one skill set and worked hard to become the best damn laser rifle merc he can be.
xMarauder Doomheim 139	Posted - 2012.12.13 06:17:00 - [5] - Quote I entered the beta late. I came in half way through the previous build. I got wrecked. I did so bad the first couple days.. That I was ready to say "F this" but I gave it time and then I got the hang of it. Point is ... Almost everyone who starts this game will get wrecked for the first couple days until you get used to it.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2012.12.13 07:11:00 - [6] - Quote Welcome to New Eden where the only thing that is fair is the system is rigged against everyone. Someone who started before you is gonna have more sp and more isk, because they started sooner, that's life. Militia gear kills people just as dead as proto gear, you just need to think a little bit harder to do it. Yes, It's a harsh world, but wait until the scammers, thieves, and evil doers are really let loose.
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.13 07:44:00 - [7] - Quote It's really strange that people still don't understand how SP system works. Let's say you want to be assault with AR. You will wear the following (just an imaginary example): assault dropsuite, AR, SMG, shield extender, armor plane, locust grenade, nanohive. There is CERTAIN number of SP you need to have in order to be best in that fitting. After you get that number of SP, it's ABSOLUTELY doesn't matter how long you play afterward. You can even go and calculate that SP number. Then calculate number of daily/weekly SP caps you need to get than amount. I doubt it will be more than one month.
Tiel Syysch Imperfects Negative-Feedback 634	Posted - 2012.12.13 07:48:00 - [8] - Quote GrilledCheese Sandwich wrote: That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second... It's possible something like that was the result of finishing off a vehicle pi+¦ata. Though, yeah, player skill gives some amount of balancing factor, but 2 equally skilled players with a gear discrepancy will lead to a reasonable performance discrepancy. A good player with good gear vs an average/bad/new player in bad gear is just a bloodbath.
DJINN Marauder Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 254	Posted - 2012.12.13 07:50:00 - [9] - Quote 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol.
Umbat Boki Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 157	Posted - 2012.12.13 08:19:00 - [10] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol. I think someone bragged that they have 10milSP or something. How much time since the last build? Less than two month, right? Dropsuite is x8 skill, as far as I remember. It's the most expensive, right?

Dissonant Zan 157	Posted - 2012.12.13 08:22:00 - [11] - Quote DJINN Marauder wrote: 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol. I don't even bother with proto gear
Vexen Krios Doomheim 95	Posted - 2012.12.13 08:24:00 - [12] - Quote Proto assault is 1.2mil an some change laser rifles are insane IMO they are OP. At long range they do more damage than up close which may be the case but damn... Those things sting.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.13 09:14:00 - [13] - Quote And how many of the Laser Rifle user's teammates were using Mass Drivers or grenades on the same cluster of enemies to soften them up before the Laser Rifle finished the job? Did he fire a short burst to heat up the LR before tossing out a Flux Grenade then sweep the still-warm laser back and forth across the whole group, aiming high to get headshots stacking on top of the heat modifier? Do you know there weren't other players near him helping to weaken the targets?
Jack Boost Zarena Family 194	Posted - 2012.12.13 09:26:00 - [14] - Quote Tiel Syysch wrote: It's possible something like that was the result of finishing off a vehicle pi+¦ata. +1
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.13 11:02:00 - [15] - Quote I came back after a LONG time, and all of my skills were reset. I managed to do very well with Militia gear, heck I topped the score board. Mind you it was a week or two ago, I'm currently training for some advanced gear. Does that sound unfair to you? A Militia gear player that hasn't touched Dust in a long time topping the score without problem?
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.12.13 13:53:00 - [16] - Quote GrilledCheese Sandwich wrote: I have been playing the Dust beta ever since it was released, so I am pretty familiar with the game. Though my friend recently won a beta code through "SLAY" in the PLaystationHome. He was pretty excited to play, though when he did he was extremely disappointed that the fact that no matter how hard he tried or how he did it, he could barely get any kills, SP, and ISK after each game. He claimed that he would be shooting a player for a while and he wouldn't be able to kill them, and that they usually killed him within seconds . I then told him that he needs to earn ISK and SP so he can train up some skills and purchase better gear, but because he couldn't do much in every game, he wouldn't earned enough ISK and SP. Later that day I was paying close attention to the game and the kill feed to see how many militia players would be able to go against a more advanced. Most of them didn't stand a chance, few did get lucky. I thought that maybe they are just not good enough, but then I saw this.. PLayer ELM8(I think thats what it is called Laser Rifle PLayer (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second... Its actually an ELM-7, and if you put two Complex damage upgrades on it it'll shred anything you point it at.
Michael Cratar Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 179	Posted - 2012.12.13 14:28:00 - [17] - Quote GrilledCheese Sandwich wrote: I have been playing the Dust beta ever since it was released, so I am pretty familiar with the game. Though my friend recently won a beta code through "SLAY" in the PLaystationHome. He was pretty excited to play, though when he did he was extremely disappointed that the fact that no matter how hard he tried or how he did it, he could barely get any kills, SP, and ISK after each game. He claimed that he would be shooting a player for a while and he wouldn't be able to kill them, and that they usually killed him within seconds . I then told him that he needs to earn ISK and SP so he can train up some skills and purchase better gear, but because he couldn't do much in every game, he wouldn't earned enough ISK and SP. Later that day I was paying close attention to the game and the kill feed to see how many militia players would be able to go against a more advanced. Most of them didn't stand a chance, few did get lucky. I thought that maybe they are just not good enough, but then I saw this.. PLayer ELM8(I think thats what it is called Laser Rifle PLayer (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second... Quick tip. Lasers hurt at a distance. So get up close to him/her.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.12.13 14:38:00 - [18] - Quote ArMaGeDoN The Cat wrote: I came back after a LONG time, and all of my skills were reset. I managed to do very well with Militia gear, heck I topped the score board. Mind you it was a week or two ago, I'm currently training for some advanced gear. Does that sound unfair to you? A Militia gear player that hasn't touched Dust in a long time topping the score without problem? Yes. This is clearly unfair. Noobs are OP and need to be nerfed.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.12.13 19:57:00 - [19] - Quote Suits are about 1.2million sp to go from lv4 to lv5, it is around 2.4 million to go from buying skill to lv5. I have over 6 million sp and still mostly use the standard type-ii and adv ar, since it works well enough and I make isk rather then lose it with that gear. I have skills for officer ar, but best fits I've made have been around adv ar. By about 5 million sp you can have enough gear/skills to compete with proto gear. The current problem is most have been playing for 2 months, there are not alot of day old people for matchmaker to put together, so they get stuck with two month old char. The first few million sp make the biggest difference, a week old vs month old is a bigger gap then a 3 month old vs year old.
Bojo The Mighty Bojo's School of the Trades 432	Posted - 2012.12.13 20:24:00 - [20] - Quote GrilledCheese Sandwich wrote: PLayer ELM8(I think thats what it is called Laser Rifle PLayer (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) (Player) ELM8 Laser Rifle (Player) That one player just took out 5-7 guys within a second... Yep I was there for that, I died. As for this difficulty, I think your friend needs to pick his battles. I usually peeker away from a player with an ADV, unless I see him, he doesn't see me, and im close with my trusty pistol. It think that he should just stick with other players, use militia, and use teamwork. That way his mortality will be low, but he can get at the minimum assists

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.12.13 20:51:00 - [21] - Quote Umbat Boki wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol. I think someone bragged that they have 10milSP or something. How much time since the last build? Less than two month, right? Dropsuite is x8 skill, as far as I remember. It's the most expensive, right? There are some broken totals this build, remember that it was a hotfix during this build which removed the WP/SP farming exploit with people playing "bumper cars". Also the skill awards system itself has been tweaked/had bugs during this build. Also there are x24 skills in the HAV/LAV/Dropship 'tree'. CCP has said they're aiming to have the progression to Proto take 2-3 weeks of consistent play (I assume that's an average time span since differing skills cost differing amounts). Assume someone uses only one type of mod in each type of slot (clearly a suboptimal configuration) that's Suit, High, Low, Main Weapon, Sidearm, Grenade, for a total of 14-21 weeks (aka ~7 months) to run a suboptimal Prototype build, it will take longer for an effective one (and that's not even considering the support skills that are highly recommended but not required). Regarding the OP, a few points Every game is "unfair" to new players, the only way to prevent that is to create a game where player skill is absolutely meaningless. I've recently done testing with all starter fits and skills, while it is certainly harder than having good gear and character skills that's totally working as intended. Remove that effect and upgrading is meaningless which cuts out the progression, risk, and essentially fun of the game. In the above test I did better with starter gear & skills now than I'd done with the same when I first started. Point being that player skill is a relevant factor. It becomes a relevant factor twice over during that very first week or so while a new player is settling on which playstyle/fit most suits their desired method of play. Matchmaking, we totally need an improved matchmaking system so that characters with lower SP totals aren't placed against the likes of Zitro, Young Gunz, etc. The good thing about this is that CCP agrees and are already working on an improved matchmaking system. 0.02 ISK Cross
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.12.13 21:55:00 - [22] - Quote Laser rifles are fine. This guy likely got a few guys who were already way into armor, bunched up, and had his laser near overheat. Ive done it a couple times, its not easy to do, but it does happen.
GrilledCheese Sandwich Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2012.12.14 01:26:00 - [23] - Quote Just to be clear, I have no problem with the game, I usually get a pretty decent amount of kills, SP, and ISK. Though my friend says otherwise.
WHz DS9899 Doomheim 136	Posted - 2012.12.14 01:47:00 - [24] - Quote Umbat Boki wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol. I think someone bragged that they have 10milSP or something. How much time since the last build? Less than two month, right? Dropsuite is x8 skill, as far as I remember. It's the most expensive, right? LAV's have higher requirments. HAV's even higher.
DarkShadowFox Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 238	Posted - 2012.12.14 01:50:00 - [25] - Quote WHz DS9899 wrote: Umbat Boki wrote: DJINN Marauder wrote: 500k sp a week. Pretty sure any proto suit is 2 mil. That's already a month of sp just for the suit lol. I think someone bragged that they have 10milSP or something. How much time since the last build? Less than two month, right? Dropsuite is x8 skill, as far as I remember. It's the most expensive, right? LAV's have higher requirments. HAV's even higher. HAV is 12, LAV is like 5?
Django Quik R.I.f.t 220	Posted - 2012.12.15 16:40:00 - [26] - Quote I'm sorry but this is just bull. I started a new character a few weeks ago and have just passed the 1mil SP mark now. I have very few things spec'd into and am still using mostly militia gear but still manage to get top 5 in my team most matches. Last week I went 10-2 in a game full of shotgunners and HMGs and I only used the militia AR starter fit. I'm not even a great player, so if I can do that, anyone can. What needs to happen is: Your friend needs to learn to play better and you need to realise that he's doing badly because he's playing badly, not because the game is unfair.
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.12.15 17:14:00 - [27] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I'm sorry but this is just bull. I started a new character a few weeks ago and have just passed the 1mil SP mark now. I have very few things spec'd into and am still using mostly militia gear but still manage to get top 5 in my team most matches. Last week I went 10-2 in a game full of shotgunners and HMGs and I only used the militia AR starter fit. I'm not even a great player, so if I can do that, anyone can. What needs to happen is: Your friend needs to learn to play better and you need to realise that he's doing badly because he's playing badly, not because the game is unfair. New character, first character? There's a difference between the former and later. New players will have no knowledge of good fittings and what modules do. I think the OP's friends main problem is coming in at the end of a build phase. Tell him to have patience, new build due out soon. Get him up to speed with SP roadmap, how to create cheap and efficient fittings to accumulate ISK.
ArMaGeDoN The Cat Systems Federation Coalition of Galactic Unity 157	Posted - 2012.12.15 17:16:00 - [28] - Quote Django Quik wrote: I'm sorry but this is just bull. I started a new character a few weeks ago and have just passed the 1mil SP mark now. I have very few things spec'd into and am still using mostly militia gear but still manage to get top 5 in my team most matches. Last week I went 10-2 in a game full of shotgunners and HMGs and I only used the militia AR starter fit. I'm not even a great player, so if I can do that, anyone can. What needs to happen is: Your friend needs to learn to play better and you need to realise that he's doing badly because he's playing badly, not because the game is unfair. That's the problem with players today. They feel uber powerful in games like COD that empower them with such power. Then they come to games that don't give you the power, the only power they give you is the chanse to improve your skills to win. And then the "all powerful" COD players think that such games are unfair.


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