DUST Search - [Request/Idea] Armor and Shield balance.

SGT Garrisson wrote:

Bhor Derri wrote:

I know that there is a lot of discussions about this issue; I acknowledge it , but now that I have an idea about how to balance it here is a new topic:

So armor slows you down major disadvantage
And shields increase your scan profile which isn't that big of a deal

Armor:HUEG amounts of PG to install one
Shields:Huge amounts of CPU
So this makes me think that armor uses up powergrid to compensate for the weight so you shouldn't be slower
while shields take up CPU to be able to control the EM field

And to balance them....

Both armor and shields make noise the noise they make gets louder and louder the more modules you fit
Shields make a humming noise , Armor makes a growling one (noises should be balanced)
Shields start to make noise when regenerating and A few seconds after
Armor starts to make noise when shields are down and moving

This doesn't mean that armor tanks wouldn't get the shield noise , they will only less because they have less shields
and vice versa.

so wheres the balance ?

balancing shields and armor to be as effective as each other has nothing to do with sound?
i myself cant think of a way atm to balence things better

the way things are at the moment armor tanking lets u fit damage mods where as shield tanking doesnt (depending on fit full tank vs little tank and damage)

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Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.23 12:33:00 - [1] - Quote I know that there is a lot of discussions about this issue; I acknowledge it , but now that I have an idea about how to balance it here is a new topic: So armor slows you down major disadvantage And shields increase your scan profile which isn't that big of a deal Armor:HUEG amounts of PG to install one Shields:Huge amounts of CPU So this makes me think that armor uses up powergrid to compensate for the weight so you shouldn't be slower while shields take up CPU to be able to control the EM field And to balance them.... Both armor and shields make noise the noise they make gets louder and louder the more modules you fit Shields make a humming noise , Armor makes a growling one (noises should be balanced) Shields start to make noise when regenerating and A few seconds after Armor starts to make noise when shields are down and moving This doesn't mean that armor tanks wouldn't get the shield noise , they will only less because they have less shields and vice versa.
SGT Garrisson On The Brink 60	Posted - 2012.11.23 12:53:00 - [2] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: I know that there is a lot of discussions about this issue; I acknowledge it , but now that I have an idea about how to balance it here is a new topic: So armor slows you down major disadvantage And shields increase your scan profile which isn't that big of a deal Armor:HUEG amounts of PG to install one Shields:Huge amounts of CPU So this makes me think that armor uses up powergrid to compensate for the weight so you shouldn't be slower while shields take up CPU to be able to control the EM field And to balance them.... Both armor and shields make noise the noise they make gets louder and louder the more modules you fit Shields make a humming noise , Armor makes a growling one (noises should be balanced) Shields start to make noise when regenerating and A few seconds after Armor starts to make noise when shields are down and moving This doesn't mean that armor tanks wouldn't get the shield noise , they will only less because they have less shields and vice versa. so wheres the balance ? balancing shields and armor to be as effective as each other has nothing to do with sound? i myself cant think of a way atm to balence things better the way things are at the moment armor tanking lets u fit damage mods where as shield tanking doesnt (depending on fit full tank vs little tank and damage)
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.23 13:37:00 - [3] - Quote SGT Garrisson wrote: Bhor Derri wrote: I know that there is a lot of discussions about this issue; I acknowledge it , but now that I have an idea about how to balance it here is a new topic: So armor slows you down major disadvantage And shields increase your scan profile which isn't that big of a deal Armor:HUEG amounts of PG to install one Shields:Huge amounts of CPU So this makes me think that armor uses up powergrid to compensate for the weight so you shouldn't be slower while shields take up CPU to be able to control the EM field And to balance them.... Both armor and shields make noise the noise they make gets louder and louder the more modules you fit Shields make a humming noise , Armor makes a growling one (noises should be balanced) Shields start to make noise when regenerating and A few seconds after Armor starts to make noise when shields are down and moving This doesn't mean that armor tanks wouldn't get the shield noise , they will only less because they have less shields and vice versa. so wheres the balance ? balancing shields and armor to be as effective as each other has nothing to do with sound? i myself cant think of a way atm to balence things better the way things are at the moment armor tanking lets u fit damage mods where as shield tanking doesnt (depending on fit full tank vs little tank and damage) Read my post again before you use puberty grammer to reply to my posts halfwit.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.23 15:14:00 - [4] - Quote Why add sound at all when that would at least partly negate the value of scan profile? Why not just balance them better by making armour give a larger raw HP bonus than shields, since it has more serious drawbacks in terms of how the game mechanics currently work? And why not wait until Cloaking Modules are introduced, because that might change the balance quite significantly if implemented right.
Bhor Derri Legion of Eden 95	Posted - 2012.11.24 14:54:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Why add sound at all when that would at least partly negate the value of scan profile? Why not just balance them better by making armour give a larger raw HP bonus than shields, since it has more serious drawbacks in terms of how the game mechanics currently work? And why not wait until Cloaking Modules are introduced, because that might change the balance quite significantly if implemented right. Armor is hard to rep with active modules and it requires a huge ammount of PG to compensate for the weight so it shouldn't be slow (why don't you read my posts) And in case you forgot what balance means ; giving them a similar disadvantage is a much better option.
exegr Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 25	Posted - 2012.11.24 23:32:00 - [6] - Quote Take a look here for a potential alternative to balancing shield/armor :) https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=396683
Sytonis Auran Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION 52	Posted - 2012.11.25 01:14:00 - [7] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Why add sound at all when that would at least partly negate the value of scan profile? Why not just balance them better by making armour give a larger raw HP bonus than shields, since it has more serious drawbacks in terms of how the game mechanics currently work? And why not wait until Cloaking Modules are introduced, because that might change the balance quite significantly if implemented right. Armor is hard to rep with active modules and it requires a huge ammount of PG to compensate for the weight so it shouldn't be slow (why don't you read my posts) And in case you forgot what balance means ; giving them a similar disadvantage is a much better option. Its difficult to balance without the full amount of modules that will eventually be available. I will add though, how often do you see people using nanohives to repair armour, or remote repair tools to repair damage in combat. Primary armour tanked infantry and their support have these at their disposal, but too infrequently are they used.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.25 02:09:00 - [8] - Quote Signature should affect lock times of swarms. So it will be easier to lock shield tanks. Armour should get better resit modules. Once we have amarr av weapons that do more damage to shields then armour it will help. Damage control should give more resistance to Armour then shields, like it does in eve, and make it take more damage to start burning. The armour reps should be closer to constant running then the shield reps by having a shorter cooldown. The burning should be at a percent of ehp instead of a percent of Armour, then some buffer shield tanks may start burning while still in shields, and a buffer armour tank would need to be nearly out of armour, especially with the damage control in a high slot making it more useful to a armour tank.
Mister Hunt Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 230	Posted - 2012.11.25 02:53:00 - [9] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Why add sound at all when that would at least partly negate the value of scan profile? Why not just balance them better by making armour give a larger raw HP bonus than shields, since it has more serious drawbacks in terms of how the game mechanics currently work? And why not wait until Cloaking Modules are introduced, because that might change the balance quite significantly if implemented right. Armor is hard to rep with active modules and it requires a huge ammount of PG to compensate for the weight so it shouldn't be slow (why don't you read my posts) And in case you forgot what balance means ; giving them a similar disadvantage is a much better option. People are reading your posts. Just because they don't agree with you does not mean they did not read the post. As far as your idea, it is dumb. Period. Trying to balance things off of how they sound has zero point in it whatsoever. If I am hitting a tank from halfway across the map with my trusty forge gun, then I don't hear anything from it to start with. What you are suggesting is a purely aesthetic thing and trying to call it "balance". As far as to why armor plates make you slower, well, it is because it increases your overall mass, while heavier shields would extend farther around the object, so it makes the scan profile different. Exact same thing in Eve. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. The reason that many went to armor tank is because swarms were useless. Forge guns don't hurt armor as much as shields, so the obvious choice would be to tank for what could hurt you, not for what had no chance of hitting you at all.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.25 03:43:00 - [10] - Quote Bhor Derri wrote: Garrett Blacknova wrote: Why add sound at all when that would at least partly negate the value of scan profile? Why not just balance them better by making armour give a larger raw HP bonus than shields, since it has more serious drawbacks in terms of how the game mechanics currently work? And why not wait until Cloaking Modules are introduced, because that might change the balance quite significantly if implemented right. Armor is hard to rep with active modules and it requires a huge ammount of PG to compensate for the weight so it shouldn't be slow (why don't you read my posts) And in case you forgot what balance means ; giving them a similar disadvantage is a much better option. 1. Armour is easy to rep with active modules, and shouldn't be hard to repair actively. It's only slow to repair passively. 2. I read your post. It was terrible. I pointed out the easiest of several reasons why. 3. Armour uses PG to partially compensate for the added weight, so you're still able to move and turn smoothly, but doesn't fully compensate, so you're slowed down as a balance mechanism. Balancing shields vs. Armour needs to happen, but this isn't a good (or even vaguely decent) suggestion for how to do that. Armour decreasing speed is a logical drawback. Shields increasing scan profile is a logical drawback. Increased scan profile is less of a drawback than decreased speed, so the option which decreases speed should have better advantages - more HP, or better resists, or some other improved advantage. Balance isn't about giving everything the SAME benefits and the SAME drawbacks. It's about making the advantages BALANCE with the disadvantages. Something with good benefits needs bad weaknesses. Something with bad weaknesses needs good benefits. If that isn't happening, it's not balanced. Your suggestion isn't balance - it's homogenisation.

Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.11.25 03:55:00 - [11] - Quote The armour needs power since it draws power to function, it's more then a slab of metal. It's energized and swarming with nanites. For real life example see electromagnetic reactive armor, still in r&d since an apc equipped with it has no room left to carry passengers since capacitors take all the room.


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