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Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 07:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Like the title says. I like it, very fun to play on |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1590
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 16:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
I hate it. Line Harvest is the map that sets the best example. Very little or almost no one complains about it anymore. Tanks don't dominate, and perfect for all professions including my own. But of course, it sets the standard for hi-sec map designs. Low-sec and null-sec will obviously be different as players gain control of the planets and put together their own layouts. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:19:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Like the title says. I like it, very fun to play on yes, nothing like a map that works against you. this will teach any new players to come to a game. enjoy the 100 population FPS. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 19:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 20:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.21 21:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. The bottom side has easier access to the bottom objective and to B. Sorry its not a mirror image of the top side, but I prefer the southern spawn. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 18:43:00 -
[7] - Quote
Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.24 21:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 00:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes.
Difference of opinion, it seems. Only thing though...most people that posted in this thread does not seem to share your enthusiasm for this map. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 03:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. Difference of opinion, it seems. Only thing though...most people that posted in this thread does not seem to share your enthusiasm for this map. The opinions that can't comprehend the beauty of this map are irrelevant and should be ignored. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1590
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 17:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. Difference of opinion, it seems. Only thing though...most people that posted in this thread does not seem to share your enthusiasm for this map. The opinions that can't comprehend the beauty of this map are irrelevant and should be ignored.
*taps Sleepy Zan on the shoulder* *Sleepy turns around* *SHANK* *disappears into the red zone* |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.25 21:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:*taps Sleepy Zan on the shoulder* *Sleepy turns around* *SHANK* *disappears into the red zone* Actually I don't think I have been killed by a nova knife this build. |
Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 12:26:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. The bottom side has easier access to the bottom objective and to B. Sorry its not a mirror image of the top side, but I prefer the southern spawn. The south end is the best side at the start of the match, but once infantry starts to be more distributed across the map, it's also the easiest to redline.
The north end base has 3 exits, the south end base has 2 (not counting hopping over mountains here, which are virtually impossible to reach from the south end when redlined since the base is set so far back)
The south end base is far more exposed and the area around it much more open
The south end MCC can have tanks and infantry sit right under them and wait for falling targets
The south end map is closer to bravo as the crow flies, but the north end map has a straight shot at it without all of the looping around you have to do when coming from the south side, so really Bravo and charlie are both more accessible
To redline the south end, it really only takes 1 squad under the MCC and 1 tank + 1 squad at the base entrance with the rest of the team just backing them up but wholly uneeded, whereas you have to really spread out to truly block off the north end.
Sorry Sleepy Zan, Manus Peak is FAR from balanced in skirmish mode. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
774
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 21:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes.
I, in turn, am going to have to disagree with you. This is the most "redline" friendly of all the maps currently in rotation. Possessing all three points (which can occur from something as simple as one squad being spawned into the match ~20 seconds before the others) provides a huge advantage which is rarely turned around once attained. Even more rarely if the opposing team does not already have forces active within the main combat area of the map. It is also one of the most "red zone sniping" friendly maps in rotation (be that tank or rifle). Providing not only a number of red zone protected spots with great overwatch and lines of fire but also a dearth of useful cover, instead generally requiring any force moving for one NULL cannon to another to pass through 2 or more common sniper firing lanes. The same terrain that provides such a haven for sniping can be used to great effect by AV thus further condemning any team who happens to get redlined to a full game of spawn camping by the other team.
On top of all it's fundamental systemic flaws the positioning of the MCCs is weak rendering one effectively useless and the other heavily open to spawn camping. The three points minimize possible game permutations as compared with higher objective count maps and the interesting terrain areas around the corner of the map only provide any tactical value if either A) sniping or B) plying a desperate gambit to flank/break out of being "redlined" aka spawn camped.
Manus Peak provides the least diversity of replay (in the games current CODEX iteration), the heaviest possibility of map advantage (or even spawn times) determining the outcome rather than teamwork and the greatest "hard counter" effect of all maps due to the terrain layout (hard counter in the sense that map terrain provides minimal opportunity to mitigate or work around the effects of a given role/fit on the battlefield requiring that the team your placed with happen to have the proper skills/fits to directly respond to whatever is thrown against them, lacking the flexibility of engagement/ability to 'pick your battles' present in other maps).
All in all Manus Peak is the weakest and least balanced of the maps currently in rotation. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2046
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 22:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Overlord Ulath wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. The bottom side has easier access to the bottom objective and to B. Sorry its not a mirror image of the top side, but I prefer the southern spawn. The south end is the best side at the start of the match, but once infantry starts to be more distributed across the map, it's also the easiest to redline. The north end base has 3 exits, the south end base has 2 (not counting hopping over mountains here, which are virtually impossible to reach from the south end when redlined since the base is set so far back) The south end base is far more exposed and the area around it much more open The south end MCC can have tanks and infantry sit right under them and wait for falling targets The south end map is closer to bravo as the crow flies, but the north end map has a straight shot at it without all of the looping around you have to do when coming from the south side, so really Bravo and charlie are both more accessible To redline the south end, it really only takes 1 squad under the MCC and 1 tank + 1 squad at the base entrance with the rest of the team just backing them up but wholly uneeded, whereas you have to really spread out to truly block off the north end. Sorry Sleepy Zan, Manus Peak is FAR from balanced in skirmish mode. OK in all honesty and 0 trolling, I actually like the fact that it's not perfectly balanced and that both sides aren't a mirrored image of each other. I like how the south side has the initial advantage but the greater punishment if they screw up, and that the north side has a far easier time of pushing out from the redline than the south does.
It may just be me but I think balancing different advantages and disadvantages in maps rather than making them perfectly symmetrical adds more flavor to the match and more creativity as far as devising a strategy.
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Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2012.11.29 22:27:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Overlord Ulath wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. The bottom side has easier access to the bottom objective and to B. Sorry its not a mirror image of the top side, but I prefer the southern spawn. The south end is the best side at the start of the match, but once infantry starts to be more distributed across the map, it's also the easiest to redline. The north end base has 3 exits, the south end base has 2 (not counting hopping over mountains here, which are virtually impossible to reach from the south end when redlined since the base is set so far back) The south end base is far more exposed and the area around it much more open The south end MCC can have tanks and infantry sit right under them and wait for falling targets The south end map is closer to bravo as the crow flies, but the north end map has a straight shot at it without all of the looping around you have to do when coming from the south side, so really Bravo and charlie are both more accessible To redline the south end, it really only takes 1 squad under the MCC and 1 tank + 1 squad at the base entrance with the rest of the team just backing them up but wholly uneeded, whereas you have to really spread out to truly block off the north end. Sorry Sleepy Zan, Manus Peak is FAR from balanced in skirmish mode. OK in all honesty and 0 trolling, I actually like the fact that it's not perfectly balanced and that both sides aren't a mirrored image of each other. I like how the south side has the initial advantage but the greater punishment if they screw up, and that the north side has a far easier time of pushing out from the redline than the south does. It may just be me but I think balancing different advantages and disadvantages in maps rather than making them perfectly symmetrical adds more flavor to the match and more creativity as far as devising a strategy. Now that is an entirely different beast. Maps that are better for one side or the other depending on how the battle flows simply by nature of their design is a wonderfully interesting concept. It gives players a set of unique goals to work into their strategy depending on which end they start. Other maps like Line Harvest don't have this feature.
THAT answer Mr Zan is honest, interesting, and frank, and deserves a +1. ^^ |
Dissonant Zan
157
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 03:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. I, in turn, am going to have to disagree with you. This is the most "redline" friendly of all the maps currently in rotation. Possessing all three points (which can occur from something as simple as one squad being spawned into the match ~20 seconds before the others) provides a huge advantage which is rarely turned around once attained. Even more rarely if the opposing team does not already have forces active within the main combat area of the map. It is also one of the most "red zone sniping" friendly maps in rotation (be that tank or rifle). Providing not only a number of red zone protected spots with great overwatch and lines of fire but also a dearth of useful cover, instead generally requiring any force moving for one NULL cannon to another to pass through 2 or more common sniper firing lanes. The same terrain that provides such a haven for sniping can be used to great effect by AV thus further condemning any team who happens to get redlined to a full game of spawn camping by the other team. On top of all it's fundamental systemic flaws the positioning of the MCCs is weak rendering one effectively useless and the other heavily open to spawn camping. The three points minimize possible game permutations as compared with higher objective count maps and the interesting terrain areas around the corner of the map only provide any tactical value if either A) sniping or B) plying a desperate gambit to flank/break out of being "redlined" aka spawn camped. Manus Peak provides the least diversity of replay (in the games current CODEX iteration), the heaviest possibility of map advantage (or even spawn times) determining the outcome rather than teamwork and the greatest "hard counter" effect of all maps due to the terrain layout (hard counter in the sense that map terrain provides minimal opportunity to mitigate or work around the effects of a given role/fit on the battlefield requiring that the team your placed with happen to have the proper skills/fits to directly respond to whatever is thrown against them, lacking the flexibility of engagement/ability to 'pick your battles' present in other maps). All in all Manus Peak is the weakest and least balanced of the maps currently in rotation. Just a little ball of negativity aren't you, you can't spend all your time worrying about the little problems. You just need to take a step back and bask in its magnificent greatness. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
774
|
Posted - 2012.11.30 05:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Overlord Ulath wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Necrodermis wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:People just need to learn to HTFU right out of the gate Necrodermis. The things that this map entails are beautiful. there are three points to cap on the map. once you lose them if there are no drop up links out there and even if there were, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to sniff them out. snipers get them located pretty quickly. the red zone for the bottom side is very small compaired to the top end. if you are on the bottom end and get redlined and the enemy is taking tanks to the red line and camping the MCC. doesn't make for a balanced map. The bottom side has easier access to the bottom objective and to B. Sorry its not a mirror image of the top side, but I prefer the southern spawn. The south end is the best side at the start of the match, but once infantry starts to be more distributed across the map, it's also the easiest to redline. The north end base has 3 exits, the south end base has 2 (not counting hopping over mountains here, which are virtually impossible to reach from the south end when redlined since the base is set so far back) The south end base is far more exposed and the area around it much more open The south end MCC can have tanks and infantry sit right under them and wait for falling targets The south end map is closer to bravo as the crow flies, but the north end map has a straight shot at it without all of the looping around you have to do when coming from the south side, so really Bravo and charlie are both more accessible To redline the south end, it really only takes 1 squad under the MCC and 1 tank + 1 squad at the base entrance with the rest of the team just backing them up but wholly uneeded, whereas you have to really spread out to truly block off the north end. Sorry Sleepy Zan, Manus Peak is FAR from balanced in skirmish mode. OK in all honesty and 0 trolling, I actually like the fact that it's not perfectly balanced and that both sides aren't a mirrored image of each other. I like how the south side has the initial advantage but the greater punishment if they screw up, and that the north side has a far easier time of pushing out from the redline than the south does. It may just be me but I think balancing different advantages and disadvantages in maps rather than making them perfectly symmetrical adds more flavor to the match and more creativity as far as devising a strategy.
I agree that symmetry isn't a requirement for balance and that maps which aren't mirrors can be a refreshing change of pace as well as providing deeper gameplay and replay value when done right. Sadly Manus Peak in it's current form fails to be done right, and it's refreshing lack of symmetry doesn't make up for it's unfortunate lack of balance.
The concept you advocate I heartily agree with, but it baffles me how you could hold Manus Peak up as an example of this, unless it is solely in it's non-symmetric nature. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.12.01 17:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Maken Tosch wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. Difference of opinion, it seems. Only thing though...most people that posted in this thread does not seem to share your enthusiasm for this map. The opinions that can't comprehend the beauty of this map are irrelevant and should be ignored. *taps Sleepy Zan on the shoulder* *Sleepy turns around* *SHANK* *disappears into the red zone*
For supporting this map.....I won't tell the corrections officer :D |
Panda's Assistant
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
2
|
Posted - 2012.12.03 23:12:00 -
[20] - Quote
This is an perfect map, huge in size, i love the "Battlefield" size maps that are huge. Yes, this map is favoring huge widespread and openess so snipers are able to shoot. But it is an "Barren Planet" i bielive that other types of planets and maybe some more maps could be relative same but have an inner section for people that like close combat warefare. People that complain about this map doesn't HAVE to play it. I personally love this map since aka i am an sniper, but occasionally i go close combat for the thrill of being shot at. The Redline that happens to the south is annoying if get redlined, but i do like the uniqueness of the nonmirrored maps as on other games. So that concludes on what i think of this map. |
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Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1590
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 00:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
Panda's Assistant wrote:This is an perfect map, huge in size, i love the "Battlefield" size maps that are huge. Yes, this map is favoring huge widespread and openess so snipers are able to shoot. But it is an "Barren Planet" i bielive that other types of planets and maybe some more maps could be relative same but have an inner section for people that like close combat warefare. People that complain about this map doesn't HAVE to play it. I personally love this map since aka i am an sniper, but occasionally i go close combat for the thrill of being shot at. The Redline that happens to the south is annoying if get redlined, but i do like the uniqueness of the nonmirrored maps as on other games. So that concludes on what i think of this map.
How can one choose to not play the map if the system constantly forces the players to get into it? If you are talking about simply logging out of the game, then easier done than said because many of us don't like to be forced into this map. |
Dissonant Zan
157
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 02:35:00 -
[22] - Quote
Panda's Assistant wrote:This is an perfect map, huge in size, i love the "Battlefield" size maps that are huge. Yes, this map is favoring huge widespread and openess so snipers are able to shoot. But it is an "Barren Planet" i bielive that other types of planets and maybe some more maps could be relative same but have an inner section for people that like close combat warefare. People that complain about this map doesn't HAVE to play it. I personally love this map since aka i am an sniper, but occasionally i go close combat for the thrill of being shot at. The Redline that happens to the south is annoying if get redlined, but i do like the uniqueness of the nonmirrored maps as on other games. So that concludes on what i think of this map. This man gets it. |
Overlord Ulath
Doomheim
85
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 02:57:00 -
[23] - Quote
Dissonant Zan wrote:Panda's Assistant wrote:This is an perfect map, huge in size, i love the "Battlefield" size maps that are huge. Yes, this map is favoring huge widespread and openess so snipers are able to shoot. But it is an "Barren Planet" i bielive that other types of planets and maybe some more maps could be relative same but have an inner section for people that like close combat warefare. People that complain about this map doesn't HAVE to play it. I personally love this map since aka i am an sniper, but occasionally i go close combat for the thrill of being shot at. The Redline that happens to the south is annoying if get redlined, but i do like the uniqueness of the nonmirrored maps as on other games. So that concludes on what i think of this map. This man gets it. I think we all get it to an extent Mr. Zan, it's just that some of us won't be able to feel as attached to this map as others are until it's shortcomings are dealt with. The map doesn't need to be mirror imaged, but it does need to be balanced. Perhaps if they one day let the MCC's slowly circle the field instead of sitting in a static campable location, this wont be as big a problem. |
arimal lavaren
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
186
|
Posted - 2012.12.04 17:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
God I hope so, I really wan't the MCC to be more than a set piece. Put some manned guns on that thing and let it move. |
xLORD HUMONGUSx
Doomheim
3
|
Posted - 2013.01.10 05:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Sleepy Zan wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Setting this map as an example for anything is a huge mistake. Line Harvest like the other dude said is a better choice. Although the other maps except for manus peak are good ones. See I'm going to have to disagree with you there, this map is the closest thing to perfection that CCP has created, as far as map design goes. If you mean fo Skirmish I agree. But, I could swear things are different every time I play it.. B seems like a 'wild west' town. I don't get to play it enough but once again I swear i've seen C at, above & below ground level! It's a real battlefield! |
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