Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 20:28:00 -
[61] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Edit: Nothing from EVE wiki suggests they are anything but as I described them. Except the fact that several of the projectile options are non-explosive types, and the explosives specifically reference the kind of tech you're describing as being required for the charge to be effective in such a small projectile.
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Projectile_ammunition
Hmm, the only ones that don't have an explosive component are direct energy conversion (proton and plasma). I admit I am in a foul mood currently, so can we move past the autocannon =/= big HMG distraction and back to why this is a great way to balance the game? |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 21:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Edit: Nothing from EVE wiki suggests they are anything but as I described them. Except the fact that several of the projectile options are non-explosive types, and the explosives specifically reference the kind of tech you're describing as being required for the charge to be effective in such a small projectile. http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Projectile_ammunitionHmm, the only ones that don't have an explosive component are direct energy conversion (proton and plasma). Lets start on the list then.
1. Carbonised Lead - primarily kinetic, with a small explosive component to the damage. 2. Nuclear - exempt for obvious reasons. 3. Proton - non-explosive. 4. Depleted Uranium - "explosive" damage from a Depleted Uranium shell isn't likely to be from an actual explosive charge. 5. Titanium Sabot - again, primarily kinetic with explosive damage as a minor addition. 6. Fusion - see 2. 7. Plasma - non-explosive. 8. EMP - there's an explosive component to the damage done, but you can't argue that EMP projectiles are intended as an explosive weapon.
Point still stands, and I'm surprised you didn't look at that link properly before posting it. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
634
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 22:09:00 -
[63] - Quote
Oh my god, it doesn't matter. Flak cannons are an autocannon, and there is more need for them to have a proper AA turret than there is for a redundant machine gun-like role which the blasters fill. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 22:30:00 -
[64] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Flak cannons are an autocannon, and there is more need for them to have a proper AA turret than there is for a redundant machine gun-like role which the blasters fill. And what's to prevent them from filling BOTH roles to some degree? Weapons don't have to be single-purpose, and so far, I haven't seen a single weapon designed to counter one thing and ONLY that one thing. Why don't they make Autocannons a sort of middle-ground between Blasters and Missiles? Add a reload (X shots then reload) on Missile Turrets, set Autocannon Turrets up with the same principle, but a (much) larger ammo count before reloading, and they'd be rapid-fire instead of the single-shot or burst-fire of Missile Turrets, with projectiles exploding at a certain range or on contact with the target. There could be a Flak variant with larger blast radius and shorter range. Does that sound good? |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 22:38:00 -
[65] - Quote
Because we want people to use blasters for once. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
634
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 22:58:00 -
[66] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Weapons don't have to be single-purpose
They'd be better if they were, because then there'd be counters to a given playstyle since it can't do everything. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 23:26:00 -
[67] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Weapons don't have to be single-purpose They'd be better if they were, because then there'd be counters to a given playstyle since it can't do everything.
Versatile weapons should be much weaker. If anything, blasters would encroach on autocannons if they have enough range to be AA. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 23:28:00 -
[68] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Weapons don't have to be single-purpose They'd be better if they were, because then there'd be counters to a given playstyle since it can't do everything. Since when does "multi-purpose" mean "best at everything" though?
Forge Guns are GREAT against Dropships and LAVs, pretty good against HAVs, and struggle against infantry, particularly in CQC.
NOT a single-purpose weapon, but has weaknesses to exploit.
ARs are an ALL-PURPOSE weapon, but are balanced for the most part, because other weapons out-perform them in the right situations. Shotguns and SMGs do CQC better than ARs, Snipers handle long-range better. And of course, their versatility is countered by vehicles.
Most weapons do one or two things WELL, and then have a couple of other things they CAN do, but aren't really the best option for. Everything has a counter. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
634
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 23:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Weapons don't have to be single-purpose They'd be better if they were, because then there'd be counters to a given playstyle since it can't do everything. Since when does "multi-purpose" mean "best at everything" though?
I never said "best."
I'm fine with things able to step into a role it's not intended for, such as railguns shooting infantry, they just need to be severely restricted in doing so. I want to see autocannons be the AA turret because we have no other dedicated AA turret out of any of the other categories. Let them attack other targets, but be pathetic in doing so. They don't have to only be able to shoot at aerial targets, but they can't overshadow any of the others if you branch out into using them in different roles (they shouldn't even be close). That's what I mean by single-purpose. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.19 23:51:00 -
[70] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote:Weapons don't have to be single-purpose They'd be better if they were, because then there'd be counters to a given playstyle since it can't do everything. Since when does "multi-purpose" mean "best at everything" though? I never said "best." I'm fine with things able to step into a role it's not intended for, such as railguns shooting infantry, they just need to be severely restricted in doing so. I want to see autocannons be the AA turret because we have no other dedicated AA turret out of any of the other categories. Let them attack other targets, but be pathetic in doing so. They don't have to only be able to shoot at aerial targets, but they can't overshadow any of the others if you branch out into using them in different roles (they shouldn't even be close). That's what I mean by single-purpose. Re-read my suggestion for Autocannons.
Done right, it could provide pretty much exactly what you're asking. |
|
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
634
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 01:19:00 -
[71] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote: Re-read my suggestion for Autocannons.
Done right, it could provide pretty much exactly what you're asking.
What I'm asking is this:
Quote:Autocannons should be for anti-air, firing fast traveling, long range explosive rounds. Ideally, they would be a high-damage splash effect like a flak cannon, and have their rounds triggered to explode if passing within a certain proximity of aerial vehicles (like the AV grenade magnetic trigger). Direct damage should still be possible if used against ground vehicles, but should be on the lower end of damage output, and should really only act as suppression against infantry, not something that is going to wipe the floor with them.
Taken from the end of the 2nd post in this thread:
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34834
It's not a hybrid-purpose proposal. It's a desire to see a specifically AA weapon, because we need one (especially when faster aircraft come in). It can still spit out damage at other things if you're forced into a position to fight back, but you're not going to outdamage other people using really anything else. There's no need for the AA weapon to be capable of heavy anti-ground or anti-infantry support. It should ding things up, but never be the go-to weapon for those roles.
Weapons, especially vehicle turrets, need clearly defined roles. They need to excel at something and be capable of being countered by something else. Bring out your AA tank? Have fun dealing with ground forces. Bring out the AV one? Good luck when you're swarmed by infantry. Got the AI one? That AV tank or dropship is going to eat you. |
Garrett Blacknova
Codex Troopers
1849
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 01:29:00 -
[72] - Quote
Tiel Syysch wrote:Garrett Blacknova wrote: Re-read my suggestion for Autocannons.
Done right, it could provide pretty much exactly what you're asking.
What I'm asking is this: Quote:Autocannons should be for anti-air, firing fast traveling, long range explosive rounds. Ideally, they would be a high-damage splash effect like a flak cannon, and have their rounds triggered to explode if passing within a certain proximity of aerial vehicles (like the AV grenade magnetic trigger). Direct damage should still be possible if used against ground vehicles, but should be on the lower end of damage output, and should really only act as suppression against infantry, not something that is going to wipe the floor with them. Taken from the end of the 2nd post in this thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=34834It's not a hybrid-purpose proposal. It's a desire to see a specifically AA weapon, because we need one (especially when faster aircraft come in). It can still spit out damage at other things if you're forced into a position to fight back, but you're not going to outdamage other people using really anything else. There's no need for the AA weapon to be capable of heavy anti-ground or anti-infantry support. It should ding things up, but never be the go-to weapon for those roles. Weapons, especially vehicle turrets, need clearly defined roles. They need to excel at something and be capable of being countered by something else. Bring out your AA tank? Have fun dealing with ground forces. Bring out the AV one? Good luck when you're swarmed by infantry. Got the AI one? That AV tank or dropship is going to eat you. Honestly, it doesn't sound significantly different from what I was suggesting.
Explosive weapon, auto-detonates at a certain range with a good blast radius and most of its damage as blast damage rather than direct damage. Main difference is that I suggested different variants of the weapon having different range and blast radius. Did you even read my post before reposting your own? You could have just pointed out that I was saying very similar things to what you were. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 15:36:00 -
[73] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:Because we want people to use blasters for once. If you want people to use blasters, why does this thread suggest heavily nerfing them?
Btw: only small blasters suck. I saw someone with what was probably a prototype large blaster- they destroyed a dropship before anyone could even get in it, from what is usually considered missile spam range. |
Tiel Syysch
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
634
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:07:00 -
[74] - Quote
Garrett Blacknova wrote:Honestly, it doesn't sound significantly different from what I was suggesting.
Explosive weapon, auto-detonates at a certain range with a good blast radius and most of its damage as blast damage rather than direct damage. Main difference is that I suggested different variants of the weapon having different range and blast radius. Did you even read my post before reposting your own? You could have just pointed out that I was saying very similar things to what you were.
The confusion probably stems from your incessant arguing with Noc over what an autocannon is, when he was suggesting they be something along the lines of a flak cannon. It's hard to tell you want them to be what I want them to be when you're arguing with him and he and I share the same idea about them.
Scheneighnay McBob wrote:Noc Tempre wrote:Because we want people to use blasters for once. If you want people to use blasters, why does this thread suggest heavily nerfing them?
It's not only nerfing blasters. It's dropping all turret damage down, and missiles are being hit the hardest. Blasters rip infantry up, though, it's not like they need to 2-3 shot people at the rate of fire they have. It's about bringing vehicle damage down so they aren't insta-killing infantry, because that's not necessarily fun to fight against, and gives us a better point of balance than essentially oneshotting. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
460
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 18:17:00 -
[75] - Quote
too add to the falloff range and damage % i think that should apply to all weapons.
it's kind of ridiculous that one step is all it takes to turn a shot gun slug into a puff of marshmallows and a pistol round turns into a airsoft pellet. |
Vincam Velmoriar
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2012.11.20 21:56:00 -
[76] - Quote
+1 to OP. Nicely done. |
Scheneighnay McBob
Bojo's School of the Trades
1062
|
Posted - 2012.11.22 16:01:00 -
[77] - Quote
Another thing with what this thread suggested for small blasters: they already have about the same damage per minute as assault rifles of the same tier (even taking into account reloading and heat management). However, they have a much much lower accurate range. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 [3] :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |