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How do mercenaries fit into the Dust ecosystem?

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Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:43:00 - [1] - Quote Like soldiers who are always ready to be hired into a battle for any Corp regardless of personal beliefs? Will they prosper? Or be dwarfed by the independents/puppets?(I don't know if those are the proper terms...but I'll just use them for now)
Sleepy Zan Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 2047	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:48:00 - [2] - Quote Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside.
Pranekt Tyrvoth Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION 177	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:51:00 - [3] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. Yeah, this is what I tend to hear too.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.11.13 14:54:00 - [4] - Quote Pranekt Tyrvoth wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. Yeah, this is what I tend to hear too. yup mostly would be that way imho till we start to meaningfully affect nullsec till then DUST needs to be able to stand on its own
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:05:00 - [5] - Quote Some independent corps will probably operate as actual mercenaries, fighting for whoever pays them. Individuals or corporations who build up a reputation for being skilled and loyal to a client will prosper, because people will hire them to help out in battle. Corp warfare may not necessarily be exclusive to corp members. Teams will call on someone else, who gets a cut of the ISK from the job.
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:07:00 - [6] - Quote I'm guessing that would take years to do, if it is even possible. We would have to all pull together as one large force(at least from the start) to make a name for dust in the eve universe. But I don't see that happening. Maybe a few of the larger corps will be able to string themselves together into a collective ball of reckoning that will make a real dent...maybe...
Paran Tadec Imperfects Negative-Feedback 902	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:12:00 - [7] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. Thats why we gotta show them what it means to have their planets embargoed. Planetary materials go into building many things, including starbase and outpost parts, to the fuel for starbases.
Garrett Blacknova Codex Troopers 1849	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:13:00 - [8] - Quote The big thing you're missing is... We might not NEED to be seen as important by EVE players. We're going to make names for ourselves in DUST, on the ground, where we're fighting. EVE pilots might only notice the big name planet-owning corps on our side, but THOSE people will know who the good mercs are. They'll know which corporations are likely to invade them, and who among them to worry about, and they'll know which corporations are only a threat if they hire good mercenaries to fight for/with them.
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:16:00 - [9] - Quote Paran Tadec wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. Thats why we gotta show them what it means to have their planets embargoed. Planetary materials go into building many things, including starbase and outpost parts, to the fuel for starbases. I think we will have to play ball(at least out of the gate) otherwise we may get more then we can handle. Unless we can make a collective effort, I don't know if its possible from the start. Then again, it might not be the worst idea to come out swinging. Maybe it will demand some respect our way.
dust badger BetaMax. 283	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:19:00 - [10] - Quote at the moment there is no need for mercs as there is no mechanics for planet control/sov grinding But im sure once these are implemented contracts galore will be coming our way

Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:22:00 - [11] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: The big thing you're missing is... We might not NEED to be seen as important by EVE players. We're going to make names for ourselves in DUST, on the ground, where we're fighting. EVE pilots might only notice the big name planet-owning corps on our side, but THOSE people will know who the good mercs are. They'll know which corporations are likely to invade them, and who among them to worry about, and they'll know which corporations are only a threat if they hire good mercenaries to fight for/with them. Another good point. I suppose that means that most corps will be run on there own, with no higher body to govern them.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:27:00 - [12] - Quote What a weird thread. EVE players don't care because you can't actually affect the EVE game at all. No surprise there. The way things are going to work, Dust ownership of planets will be able to influence stuff. You won't be able to prevent Planetary Interaction fro happening. CCP merely talked about making it cost more for EVE players to move stuff from rocket pads to customs. That'd be a bit annoying, but hardly the end of the world. Anyway, it's not something to worry about right now. This thing'll be in beta for many months to come. Nullsec, the actual player-controlled space part of EVE, is going to be coming a while even after release. Until that happens -- and hell, maybe even then -- you won't be able to impact EVE significantly and thus, nobody will really care.
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:28:00 - [13] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: Some independent corps will probably operate as actual mercenaries, fighting for whoever pays them. Individuals or corporations who build up a reputation for being skilled and loyal to a client will prosper, because people will hire them to help out in battle. Corp warfare may not necessarily be exclusive to corp members. Teams will call on someone else, who gets a cut of the ISK from the job. i can see this happening when nullsec get dropped infact most DUST corps/alliances will probably at least start off as pure mercs to build some sort of rep once rep is built some of the bigger powerblocs in EVE might look to hire these mercs or even go as far as recruiting them into their own organisation PS: rep isnt just ingame skill btw, its also loyalty and how u carry urself in a professional manner or not.....at least imo
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:28:00 - [14] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: What a weird thread. EVE players don't care because you can't actually affect the EVE game at all. No surprise there. The way things are going to work, Dust ownership of planets will be able to influence stuff. You won't be able to prevent Planetary Interaction fro happening. CCP merely talked about making it cost more for EVE players to move stuff from rocket pads to customs. That'd be a bit annoying, but hardly the end of the world. Anyway, it's not something to worry about right now. This thing'll be in beta for many months to come. Nullsec, the actual player-controlled space part of EVE, is going to be coming a while even after release. Until that happens -- and hell, maybe even then -- you won't be able to impact EVE significantly and thus, nobody will really care. pretty much summed it up nicely
Cody Sietz Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 63	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:34:00 - [15] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: What a weird thread. EVE players don't care because you can't actually affect the EVE game at all. No surprise there. The way things are going to work, Dust ownership of planets will be able to influence stuff. You won't be able to prevent Planetary Interaction fro happening. CCP merely talked about making it cost more for EVE players to move stuff from rocket pads to customs. That'd be a bit annoying, but hardly the end of the world. Anyway, it's not something to worry about right now. This thing'll be in beta for many months to come. Nullsec, the actual player-controlled space part of EVE, is going to be coming a while even after release. Until that happens -- and hell, maybe even then -- you won't be able to impact EVE significantly and thus, nobody will really care. It kind of went off topic from what I was asking. I just wanted to know if you could not be part of a corp and still flourish. Also, would there be a need for such mercs?
Bonchu Blunt Rifle Intergalactic Smooochie 8	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:49:00 - [16] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Like soldiers who are always ready to be hired into a battle for any Corp regardless of personal beliefs? Will they prosper? Or be dwarfed by the independents/puppets?(I don't know if those are the proper terms...but I'll just use them for now) From a market perspective - true mercenaries (not bogged down by loyalties, beliefs, ideals) are closer to commodities and thus will be easier to trade and find a proper price for. Which would translate to more business - if the only relevant stats are things like win ratio, corp size, skill points etc., then it is easier to put a price on your service and generate interest with potential buyers. This should generate more battles (especially for mercenaries that perform well) which should generate more experience which in turn should generate a stronger pound for pound fighting force. I guess it will depend upon how you define "prosper". I suspect the "toughest" Dust corps will be true mercenaries. They will not however be the largest landowners, or if they ever do decide to take a stand on some issue - they likely will be defeated. The analogy in EVE would be to compare an alliance like Pandemic Legion to an alliance like Goonswarm. Goonswarm is a SOV holding alliance with its own culture, beliefs and ideals (despite the impression they may give to the contrary). Goonswarm's power base comes from numbers, diplomacy, allies, logistics and its own internal culture which holds it together. Goonswarm and Goonswarm allies currently control most of SOV nullsec. Pandemic Legion holds to more of a mercenary structure (although given their size and wealth they are at what I would consider the upper limit ). If the price is right they will generally go to the highest bidder - and for the service they offer they are worth it. In several key conflicts in the past the side that paid for Pandemic Legion came out on top. But Pandemic Legion holds negligible SOV and it has been this way ever since they started to focus on what they do best. When an equal sized Goonswarm force goes up against an equal sized Pandemic legion force the Pandemic Legion force wins. When an numerically superior Goonswarm force goes up against a Pandemic Legion force the Pandemic Legion force wins (generally). In an all out SOV war though Goonswarm have no rivals. If you don't follow EVE Online however I guess the best analogy would be sovereign nations vs corporations. Corporations have a lot of power/money and do very well (true for mercenaries or McDonalds). But the world is ruled by nations, with an organized military backed by a civilian population held together by ideals and a common purpose..
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 15:58:00 - [17] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: It kind of went off topic from what I was asking. I just wanted to know if you could not be part of a corp and still flourish. Also, would there be a need for such mercs? Yeah, those other guys got carried away. To answer your question, we'd need to know how contracts will work a year from now. Right now the answer is obviously "no", as you wouldn't be able to get involved at all being unaffiliated. Maybe they'll change it one day. CCP hasn't been very forthcoming about their plans, as I imagine they're still hammering them out while they fix the half-game they are currently working with. But, if one day they were to allow it, you probably still wouldn't get much business as a lone guy. You'd need to at the very least a) be recognized as "good" at whatever you do, and b) be friends/trusted by whoever you're working with. The problem with just picking up any old assholes to be fighters for you is that you have no idea their true intentions. EVE is rife with spies. You wouldn't want to hire Joe Blow the solo merc when he could actually be working for the people you're paying him to go up against, and the whole battle he's conveying your team's strategy and deployment to the enemy while purposefully missing shots and so forth. So no, you probably wouldn't be able to prosper. You might not even be able to reliably participate. But if you're very good, then your chances would improve. Again, though, this is assuming you're able to get involved at all.
Reav Hannari Red Rock Outriders Red Rock Consortium 295	Posted - 2012.11.13 16:24:00 - [18] - Quote If you look on Duality (or was it Singularity) and you'll see that system control will be influenced by DUST battles. For faction warfare. EDIT: Writing too many things at once. Missed half my thought. EDIT 2: And Duality is closed.
arimal lavaren L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising 186	Posted - 2012.11.13 17:12:00 - [19] - Quote All we can do is speculate for the moment. Planetary and regional control are one of the key selling points of dust, at least for me. I understand CCP's nervousness in moving to quickly and possibly upseting the eve economy that as far I as I know has been moving pretty well for the last few years. All I'm saying is until these mechanics are introduced along with the player market we can not make a true measure of Dust.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 187	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:20:00 - [20] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: The big thing you're missing is... We might not NEED to be seen as important by EVE players. We're going to make names for ourselves in DUST, on the ground, where we're fighting. EVE pilots might only notice the big name planet-owning corps on our side, but THOSE people will know who the good mercs are. They'll know which corporations are likely to invade them, and who among them to worry about, and they'll know which corporations are only a threat if they hire good mercenaries to fight for/with them. This is as close to being on the money as it gets. It will be some time before Dust has any real impact on Eve, aside from the glitches and bugs that will come from migrating onto Sisi. From there it's largely in the hands of Dusters to either make a name or not. It will take some time though, and probably nothing substantial until Dust has any effect at all on nulsec (where territories are conquered and protected).

Cross Atu Conspiratus Immortalis 775	Posted - 2012.11.13 19:37:00 - [21] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Like soldiers who are always ready to be hired into a battle for any Corp regardless of personal beliefs? Will they prosper? Or be dwarfed by the independents/puppets?(I don't know if those are the proper terms...but I'll just use them for now) I'm sure that there will be more than one niche but it'll take some time to be fully integrated. There are preliminarily rumblings (and keep in mind how things can change and that these were confirmed goals even when they came out, but more ideas being tossed around). High Sec. D514 can effect and tax PI income from EVE players. Low Sec D514 mercs can effect up to 50% of system control in FW (confirmed already live in EVE) Null Sec D514 planetary control will effect not only PI but have its own Sov system, thus enabling friendly Corps (in EVE or Dust) to impact the benefits of control in Null (i.e. you gain extra bonuses if system and plant Sov are friendly to each other). There's even some talk of this eventually going the other direction as well and making it harder to control an area if not friendly. But even without a system for that having hostile forces on your doorstep at all times (even if it's ground to orbit) is going to be something worth taking notice of. And that's all without bringing up the economic ripples. Cross
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:08:00 - [22] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: Null Sec D514 planetary control will effect not only PI but have its own Sov system, thus enabling friendly Corps (in EVE or Dust) to impact the benefits of control in Null (i.e. you gain extra bonuses if system and plant Sov are friendly to each other). There's even some talk of this eventually going the other direction as well and making it harder to control an area if not friendly. But even without a system for that having hostile forces on your doorstep at all times (even if it's ground to orbit) is going to be something worth taking notice of. The thing to remember with sov being affected is that it's merely made harder or easier. You still won't be taking any systems without fleets being involved. How much of a nuisance or a benefit Dust activities will be to such things remains to be seen, but Dust alone won't be taking any systems from people, or stopping any systems from being taken. Reav Hannari wrote: If you look on Duality (or was it Singularity) and you'll see that system control will be influenced by DUST battles. For faction warfare. Those stories you hear about EVE, the big battles, they're not stories that are told about people involved in Faction Warfare. But the real bottom line with that is that it's out of the hands of EVE players. They don't pay you to do FW, they don't have any control over it. It just happens. So even if you're talking about people who are concerned about such things, it will be as the coming and going of the tides.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:31:00 - [23] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. ^ If EVE players ever start caring, I predict that there will be a fair amount of loyalty between DUST and EVE corps. The best DUST corps will be associated with the best EVE corps and it will stay that way until EVE corps don't pay out enough. Unfortunately, it won't be very dynamic. There will always be a couple of rogue DUST corps that make it interesting but most will go with the strategy "why bite the hand that feeds?" To change that, a top DUST corporation would have to actively pursue a policy of only accepting the best contracts regardless of which EVE alliance is hosting it. Still....the most powerful EVE corps will always have the most money so will anything really change? What this game needs is two-way contracts. DUST corps should have the potential to be just as powerful as EVE corps. If a DUST corp could hire a hit on an EVE corp or even assault enemy planets themselves....THAT would be interesting.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:34:00 - [24] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. The smart ones don't see it that way, tho most will never admit it. They're just doing recon and playing their cards close to their chests.
Cortez The Killer Immobile Infantry 187	Posted - 2012.11.13 20:57:00 - [25] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. The smart ones don't see it that way, tho most will never admit it. They're just doing recon and playing their cards close to their chests.
Xavier Hastings ZionTCD Legacy Rising 243	Posted - 2012.11.13 23:42:00 - [26] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. I agree. But even if they did, all us Dust Mercs with be the fighters in the cage match, while the EVE players are betting on whose going to win. It will be quite the feat if a Dust corp somehow becomes stronger then an EVE one. That is where the two- way contracts come in, as Super Cargo has mentioned.
Scheneighnay McBob Bojo's School of the Trades 1058	Posted - 2012.11.13 23:50:00 - [27] - Quote Sleepy Zan wrote: Apparently at the moment we are worthless since alot of EVE players don't seem to care what goes on planetside. until money starts flowing from planets
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.11.13 23:55:00 - [28] - Quote Eve Players will care about DUST just as much as CCP wants them to. It's all up to CCP to implement the mechanisms that will make them care.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.11.14 00:20:00 - [29] - Quote Skihids wrote: Eve Players will care about DUST just as much as CCP wants them to. It's all up to CCP to implement the mechanisms that will make them care. ^ =) Your analyses always make me smile in admiration, Skihids. What do we know? Well, I'd say were pretty safe with: CCP has tremendous, even ravenous ambition, but it is ambition tempered with wisdom(most of the time). CCP is being very cautious with DUST, trying their best to make sure they have the fundamentals right. CCP has very big balls. The biggest, really, of any developer in business today. AC/DC balls, tbh. CCP really like full-on flat out war. Honestly, the more heart-rending loss, the better, 'social engine' notwithstanding. From this I speculate there will be something on those planets that will be the source of a mighty river of mercblood/podgoo. I might be wrong. But I'm not.


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