DUST Search - Integrated Interface Management System & Active Infantry Module Discussion

HECATONCHIRES COTTUS wrote:

J'Jor Da'Wg wrote:

... lolwut. This gets rid of menus. All it requires is a change in controller setup, a UI update, and some new icons. Not complicated at all.

For the coding problems... In the long run, this is a worthy time investment as an addition to the game. I don't like responses that say "Good, but CCP shouldn't do it because they are busy." Let CCP deicde how busy they are.

In regards to double tap lag, probably the answer to that is to make it a "hold" instead. Tap it, and it selects 1-4, but hold it for 1.2 seconds and it selects 5-8.

Also, if lag in general isn't managed more and more as time goes on, then by your logic why add anything more at all into the game?

Its obvious you didn't read my post, since you came away with the notion it would give more menus, when I bolded it would get rid of them...

Honestly, kinda disappointed in the responses. Doesn't anyone think this would really speed up combat, without being clunky?

IT LAGS AS YOU SCROLL THROUGH YOUR DROPSUIT FITS...HELLO come on man with directional tapping there would have to be an icon some visual reference that would let the operator know he had selected the right item ...therefore it would clog up the screen.


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J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 02:00:00 - [1] - Quote The Integrated Interface Management System + Active Infantry Modules Currently, DUST 514 has a interesting combat and fitting system. However, only vehicles have active modules that can be used, and these are accessed through a clunky interface. I propose a new, radical combat system. A interesting twist on firefights could be active modules for infantry drop suits; temporary bonuses to armor, shields, damage output, speed, sensors/electronics, capacitor, etc. These bonuses would be more drastic than passive modules, but balanced by the fact that they require capacitor and a cool down to use. This would require careful management of active module use and stop module spam, much like EVE Online. Now, there are several obstacles inherent in this overhaul. Firstly is the controller. Second; the interface. Lastly is balance. I will address these problems for you. Much time and effort has gone into my IIMS proposal, but I believe that this would solve many problems and improve combat immensely. 1. The Interface So, first off is the root of the system, the fitting screen. Modules would have a tag on them in the fitting screen and market place labeling them as passive or active. When fitting passive modules, the system would not interfere. Passive modules would continue to act as they do currently, providing a marginal bonus 100% of the time. Active modules will act different though. Module slots would have small tickers denoting I, II, III, IV, etc on up to VIII. Fitting an active module in that slot maps it to a particular button combo on the D-Pad on the controller, which I will explain later. In combat, you would simply switch to the Module Activation tab on the fly (also explained later) and press the appropriate directional pad combo to activate that module. The module, now activated, would use the same pop up icon as used for vehicles that shows the module activated, how long it has left, cool down, etc. However, this is where Capacitor comes into play, and why it needs to be added ASAP. I will explain this later. Here is problem number one, as you have probably noticed. Okay, using the D-Pad for modules is alright, but where do you put the current functions (Map, Player list, deployment, PTT) once that is used? *Answer: Keep it on the D-Pad.* Through use of a button (I decided the R2 trigger is best for this), you would swap through 4 different interface wheels that change what the D-Pad buttons do, all without bringing up a pop up in the middle of your screen, streamlining weapon switching, module activation, squad commands, and the current D-Pad interface. I will explain the exact controls in a few paragraphs, but for now, lets talk Capacitor. 2. Capacitor This is what really stokes the need for Capacitor, a quite noticeably missing feature in DUST. Think of it as your GÇ£Module Stamina barGÇ¥. Your Capacitor is essentially a battery for your modules, powering them. If you activate a module, it takes away a portion of your Capacitor charge, which recharges over time, like shields. Use too many modules at once, and your Capacitor runs out! You must now wait to charge your capacitor some before activating another module. Capacitors can be boosted with modules, or by other players feeding you cap in EVE. This would pave another tool for Logistics suits to have; a Cap feeding tool the Logi shoots at a teammate like the repair gun, that transfers Capacitor from the Logi to the targeted player, or alternatively, drains an enemy players Capacitor. The Capacitor would balance out the advantage of active modules. While they would provide more immediate and larger bonus, they cannot be on 24/7 and must cool down between uses. The system would be almost completely ripped from EVE, but happily so. It works well.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 02:00:00 - [2] - Quote 3. The Controller So how would this all work together? Easy. In fact, it would simplify the current control system. Instead of having to pull up a wheel and choose equipment, denying you the ability to shoot and change weapon or activate a module, my system would streamline this all. To start, the Interface Swapping system. There would be 3 quick cycle options. During gameplay, tapping R2 would quickly change the active D-Pad Interface. The 3 Quick Cycles would be: - Weapons / Equipment - Module Activation - Leadership Commands There is a 4th interface, the current setup use of D-Pad, but this is the least necessary during combat of the 4 menus. Now let me clear this up: This system would NEVER bring up a menu in front of your reticle. You can continue shooting the entire time you manage yourself, and easily at that. (Of course, if you bring up the Overview map, that would stop you shooting, but that is the intended function anyways.) By holding R2 you would switch to the 4th interface, the current one that is mapped to the D-Pad. Let me now explain the D-Pad. While you are on the appropriate Interface setting, the D-Pad would take on a different function depending on what cycle you are on. For instance, say you are setting a squad objective when suddenly an enemy comes upon you, and you are holding a nanohive! Currently, you are as good as dead. You have to get out of the spinning wheel of selection mess and hold it again, then select your gun, andGÇª too late, your dead. With my system, all it would require is this. Tap R2 once to cycle to the Weapons, and Tap Up on the D-Pad to bring out your main weapon. Start firing! Simple as that. Another example. Say you are a Heavy with a Active Armor Hardener. You come around a corner, and see a cluster of enemies. Oh no! ButGÇª you start firing, hosing them down. At the same time, you tap R2 and switch from your gun interface to the Module Activation Interface. Quickly, you remember that it was set as the #2 Module. Checking your cap bar to make sure it is full enough, you tap Right on the D-Pad once, and the module comes on, soaking up the helpless foolGÇÖs damage as you tear through them with your HMG. See how simple it is? With a two simple button taps, you switch from managing your Weapons to selecting a module, all without ever once stopping the action or bringing up a menu. Alrighty, that is cool and all. Revolutionary, even. But, JGÇÖJor, what if you have MORE than 4 active modules? Simple solution, my dear mercenary! Simply double tap the appropriate direction! So, Up = Module 1, Right = Module 2, Down = 3, Left = 4, and DOUBLE TAPPING Up = 5, DTGÇÖing Right = 6, DTGÇÖing Down = 7, and DTGÇÖing Left = 8. It is so easy, a non-immortal civilian could do it! So, to recap. Tapping R2 cycles between the 3 Interface selections. HOLDING R2 changes it to the Regular Interface containing the Overview Map, Vehicle Deployment Menu, Player List, and Push to talk. Once set on the appropriate Interface, tapping a D-Pad button controls whatever function it is mapped to. DonGÇÖt you love it? Eliminates all the current clutter of Weapon Selection, Squad Orders, and regular interface AND even gives us the new goodies of ACTIVE INFANTRY MODULES! As a last note, this would all fit in on the UI rather smoothly. Some adjustments would have to be made, but in general, it could all fit on the screen without ever once prompting a menu in the middle of combat, and would be easily understandable. A capacitor bar would have to be added, (simple) and the currently selected Interface would have to be shown in some way. I was thinking a little Circle that cycles between 3 others on the screen in one of the corners would work, with each circle containing an icon for the selected Interface, but CCP will have to come up with a way for this to work. The key to the system is flexibility and ease of use. No option is more than 3 button taps away now. Combat would retain itGÇÖs fast pace, and in fact become even faster and more interesting due to the addition of active modules. As long as CCP explains the system in detail in a tutorial, and the UI easily represents what is going on, I truly believe this could be a game-changing addition for CCP to add. Please, give me your thoughts, critiques, comments, ideas, additions, anything. Please support this and show CCP how useful this could be. I have thought long and hard about this and I hope you will help me support this. LetGÇÖs get this implemented folks!
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 02:07:00 - [3] - Quote The best part of all this is that it would work across the board on both vehicles and infantry. Not to toot my own horn here, but I seriously believe this SHOULD be implemented into DUST 514. I honestly cannot see any flaw in it, but that is what you guys are here to point out! :D
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 02:54:00 - [4] - Quote ... lolwut. This gets rid of menus. All it requires is a change in controller setup, a UI update, and some new icons. Not complicated at all. For the coding problems... In the long run, this is a worthy time investment as an addition to the game. I don't like responses that say "Good, but CCP shouldn't do it because they are busy." Let CCP deicde how busy they are. In regards to double tap lag, probably the answer to that is to make it a "hold" instead. Tap it, and it selects 1-4, but hold it for 1.2 seconds and it selects 5-8. Also, if lag in general isn't managed more and more as time goes on, then by your logic why add anything more at all into the game? Its obvious you didn't read my post, since you came away with the notion it would give more menus, when I bolded it would get rid of them... Honestly, kinda disappointed in the responses. Doesn't anyone think this would really speed up combat, without being clunky?
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 03:00:00 - [5] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: ... lolwut. This gets rid of menus. All it requires is a change in controller setup, a UI update, and some new icons. Not complicated at all. For the coding problems... In the long run, this is a worthy time investment as an addition to the game. I don't like responses that say "Good, but CCP shouldn't do it because they are busy." Let CCP deicde how busy they are. In regards to double tap lag, probably the answer to that is to make it a "hold" instead. Tap it, and it selects 1-4, but hold it for 1.2 seconds and it selects 5-8. Honestly, kinda disappointed in the responses. Doesn't anyone think this would really speed up combat, without being clunky? If your idea was one where the "without being clunky" side was actually viable, I'd be all for it. I like the CONCEPT, but I'm suggesting an alternative EXECUTION for it. I liked your idea of making square pull double duty, and circle be a kind of "alt" key. That would work well too. Sorry, I was referring to the previous post. Yours was very good. The only thing I saw with your suggestion is using L2 as module select. Thats mapped for nades at the moment. I feel a 3-point cycle is quick. 4 is too much. With 3, you can manage weapons, modules, and leadership quickly without interfering with your FPS. My whole point is to free up as much space as possible on the controller, all while streamlining several functions.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.12 20:07:00 - [6] - Quote HECATONCHIRES COTTUS wrote: J'Jor Da'Wg wrote: ... lolwut. This gets rid of menus. All it requires is a change in controller setup, a UI update, and some new icons. Not complicated at all. For the coding problems... In the long run, this is a worthy time investment as an addition to the game. I don't like responses that say "Good, but CCP shouldn't do it because they are busy." Let CCP deicde how busy they are. In regards to double tap lag, probably the answer to that is to make it a "hold" instead. Tap it, and it selects 1-4, but hold it for 1.2 seconds and it selects 5-8. Also, if lag in general isn't managed more and more as time goes on, then by your logic why add anything more at all into the game? Its obvious you didn't read my post, since you came away with the notion it would give more menus, when I bolded it would get rid of them... Honestly, kinda disappointed in the responses. Doesn't anyone think this would really speed up combat, without being clunky? IT LAGS AS YOU SCROLL THROUGH YOUR DROPSUIT FITS...HELLO come on man with directional tapping there would have to be an icon some visual reference that would let the operator know he had selected the right item ...therefore it would clog up the screen. Calm down bro. Secondly, it would not have to clog up the screen. As long as the UI is slick and unobtrusive, it would be easy. Your reasons as to why this is a bad idea have not offered any sugfestions or alternative, just you ranting about it. Give more constructive feedback please, so I can make my idea better and more well reasoned.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.13 03:29:00 - [7] - Quote Grenwal Hiesenberg wrote: Not sure if you've plagued Fallout on a console, but the hotkey configuration is very similar to what you are propsing. The main difference I would like to point out is the multiple selection issue, they use combos of buttons (i.e. diagonal presses- up+ right, etc) as opposed to double taping or holding a button, which would add precious seconds to selections; this would maintain the fluidity you are striving for without over complications of multiple button presses or long presses. I also like the idea of a visual cue to what module/ weapon/ command you have selected. In the added UI, you could make it as easy as an octagonal design with the current module direction being highlighted or as complicated as a picture/ word shown underneath of said UI addition. Overall, even without active module implementation, this would still be a nice addition to help maintain order, ease of use and cycling between different menus and options. Thanks for the feedback. I actually took a mix of the controls for Fallout, Warhawk, and Crysis's nanosuit abiliies as my insoiration for the scheme. I think you got what I am going for, I imagined a small circle or hexagon that would appear unobtrusively also. Honestly, I would say it is easiest just to get rid of the whole double tap thing or "alt button". Since, as Mr. Blacknova said becore, there aren't any suits with more than 4 weapon or equipment slots anyways. If not, then the Fallout/Warhawk 8 point direction select would work just as well. Any other thoughts?
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:15:00 - [8] - Quote Bumping in reference to the tweet from CCP. Maybe I can get a dev's opinion on this? :)
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.13 21:44:00 - [9] - Quote Sorry, don't know how to link on mobile, the tweet linked to the Weekly Update thread. That linked to KAGE's active module discussion, which is very similar to this. Someone else linked that to this thread, thats what I was saying.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.14 19:56:00 - [10] - Quote Yeah, we came to the conclusion double clicking is bad. Although, like I keep saying, "menus" isn't really the right term, its a small HUD icon off to the side you are switching. Pretty easy to understand once you get a few minutes in playing with it, at least that is how it was for me with games with similar setups.

J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.15 20:14:00 - [11] - Quote Garrett Blacknova wrote: I'm just here to say that more people should be looking at this thread. You know you want to. Thank you for the support! :D
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.19 14:12:00 - [12] - Quote I will try to do so, but time has been tight lately, so unless I do it on paper and pencil, I dont want to upload a crappy piece of work.
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.28 20:06:00 - [13] - Quote Its not complicated. Don't know why people think it is. Its an easier and quicker way to manage gameplay. And also... Why would you not want active mods for infantry? -_-
J'Jor Da'Wg KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 648	Posted - 2012.11.28 23:15:00 - [14] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: i have no problems activating my vehicle mods even during combat its quite easy and quick tbh Hold R2 and u know exactly where ur mod is after a couple times ex: if ur rep is up hold R2 and immediately push up and bam rep activated interesting idea tho whether it does make it simpler is yet to be seen but hey dont do away with what we currently got but instead possibly have urs as an alternative and let ppl choose. More choices the better Thanks for the feedback. I do think it will be easier, but that is subjective to opinion and I am obviously biased towards it. But I would even be happier if it was an alternative control scheme, so as you said, the more options, the better.