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RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
37
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:52:00 -
[1] - Quote
So tried out the latest patch for the first time yesterday, some nice features and looks like things are trundling along at a steady but slow pace. Got to talking with some other players on the voice comms about skills and points that's lead me to be a bit concerned.
As I understand it, we are now gathering passive SP. We also now have a SP limit of 500k per week. The idea being they don't want anyone getting too far ahead. This seems like an admirable goal to me, but the method is perhaps lacking. Let me explain....
I've drifted between online FPS games for years, following friends into their new games or picking up games on my own and finding new folk to play with. Each game has had a teething period; in some the learning curve was enforced via skill trees and unlocked gear, in others it was simply a matter of lack of experience. But the thing that I was always sure of was that I could catch up through graft and concentration. Let's take a look at a couple of examples:
1. Counterstrike - You started out a n00b. You were crap, you don't know where bomb site A was, you didn't know you even HAD the bomb. But the game didn't limit you. You're avatar ran just as fast as the other guys, you had access to the same weapons and equipment.... so how the hell was everyone else better than you then? Simple, they were just better. The problem was between the chair and the keyboard. But given time, and practice (oh so much practice) you became an AK wielding headshot machine and all was well. This transition was only as hard as your latent ability (or lack thereof) made it. Halo and TF2 would also fit into this category. The only limiting factor was your own skill.
2. Battlefield 3 - You started out this time last year a lowly grunt, a private with nothing to your name. You start ranking up and all these goodies start getting unlocked. M16A3? Yes please! Heavy barrel and ACOG? Get some! Then came Christmas, don't pretend you don't remember! You had your squad perks unlocked, you and your buddies boosting one another in harmony, Squad Sprint, Squad Ammo etc. You had your M320 unlocked and your Co-Op sidearms. Then in came a wave of new players, kids who got BF3 for Christmas from mommy and daddy. The slaughter was glorious. They didn't stand a chance! Not only were they clueless but they were literally inferior in every way. They had nearly no guns, the ones they did have sucked and they had no perks. Eventually though, in the space of a month most had unlocked all the essential gear. Within 2 months there was no difference (sure you had some cooler camo but that didn't give you an edge unless you're into tea-bagging). COD and MAG are other examples of this model.
3. Dust 514 - Based on the latest developments and the claims by the devs that the skill system could take years to unlock (IIRC) then where does that leave us? If my buddy joins in a year late will he always be a year inferior? How long until he becomes competitive enough to start fighting in clan matches? I can loan him cash to fit some good gear but without the skills to back those up what good is that?
In MAG I was able to max out from 0 to 70 in the space of a couple of days. By the end of day 2 I'd have be on an equal footing with any other player on the battlefield. In a head to head it was the best man wins. Will the same hold true in Dust or will the newer players always be at a disadvantage to the older players? In short, is it possible to go from zero to hero and if so how long will that take? |
Sev Alcatraz
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
185
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Posted - 2012.11.07 21:58:00 -
[2] - Quote
it all depends on how you play the game,
if you think about what you're doing you can succeed if you run head first into the **** storm your bound to slip and die over and over again. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
yes he will always be a year behind because no matter how much he plays he can only earn the max weekly cap atm
that being said u do start off with enough SPs to properly spec into something decent to **** in pubs for a bit
id say a solid 2 months to get fully competitive into a given role should he not deviate too much from w/e he decides to specialize in.
imho SP cap should be doubled. Should be 1mill SPs normal and 1.5 mill with a booster |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
37
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 22:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sev Alcatraz wrote:it all depends on how you play the game,
if you think about what you're doing you can succeed if you run head first into the **** storm your bound to slip and die over and over again.
That's something I had considered. I'll most likely stick to AR kits based on my gameplay style in other games so I suspect to max out AR and all the essential other skill trees (relecant dropsuits and modules) will take what? Say 6 months? Less?
But at the end of the 6 months if we're playing against a clan that are unexpectedly armour-centric that makes me about as useful as a ****-flavoured lollipop? While someone who has been playing twice as long will be twice as versatile to their clan?
I presume there will be SP for sale or some other way to even the odds by parting with our cash? |
RedRebelCork
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
37
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 22:09:00 -
[5] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:yes he will always be a year behind because no matter how much he plays he can only earn the max weekly cap atm
that being said u do start off with enough SPs to properly spec into something decent to **** in pubs for a bit
id say a solid 2 months to get fully competitive into a given role should he not deviate too much from w/e he decides to specialize in.
imho SP cap should be doubled. Should be 1mill SPs normal and 1.5 mill with a booster
Ah but when you double the XP cap you also potentially double the gap between a day 1 and day 365 player. It's an inelegant fix to a complex problem. |
Governor Odius
Doomheim
177
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
I picked up EVE in 2008. This puts me five years "behind" the people who started at launch.
That said, if me and a 2003 vet both hop into Curse we'll be flying it with the same skills. This is because for any given ship and loadout there are only so many skills that are actually relevant.
It'll be the same in DUST. Your hypothetical friend who joined a year after you will always have a year's worth of SP less, but once they have the relevant skills for whatever loadout they want to use they'll be just as good in it as you are. |
Necandi Brasil
Conspiratus Immortalis
245
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
I'm imagining something like EVE do ...
The Newbies can go into corporations and learn more about tactics, gameplay and earn more experience. On the other hand a corporation will need a standing army to defend their assets, occupy new ground and dominate more systems. Of course, the quality of the players will make the difference somehow... but I think there will be plenty of room for new players to fell confortable |
Cortez The Killer
Immobile Infantry
187
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
Governor Odius wrote:I picked up EVE in 2008. This puts me eight years "behind" the people who started at launch.
That said, if me and a 2003 vet both hop into Curse we'll be flying it with the same skills. This is because for any given ship and loadout there are only so many skills that are actually relevant.
It'll be the same in DUST. Your hypothetical friend who joined a year after you will always have a year's worth of SP less, but once they have the relevant skills for whatever loadout they want to use they'll be just as good in it as you are.
This is pretty accurate. It may take you a month and change to specialize in a particular suit/weapon setup and be on par with any other player (not counting technique and understanding the game mechanics). After that, having more skill points just allows more varieties of roles to fill.
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Gunthar Bundar
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
11
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Posted - 2012.11.07 22:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
You know what? It'd be really nice if they kept the sp cap, but created a "rotating cap" for new players.
How this would work is that each week (or day, if they switch to that) when the cap increases they take what sp you had remaining from the prior week, plus the new sp, and that is your new cap. If you start with a cap of 500k, someone who doesn't play for a week then has a new weekly cap at 1m the following week. If they don't play for another week? 1.5m. Play through 750k of your sp the next week and your new cap is 1.25m. Cap each fight to pay out at a certain rate, say 15k - 25k sp per match, but let that player instant queue to their hearts content earning all the back xp they missed out on.
By giving players an ever increasing ceiling, you still ensure that player A, the hardcore player, doesn't out skill everyone by millions but that player B still has a theoretical chance to catch up. I say theoretical, because I don't think this rotating cap should include things like a double xp week. This limitation would give those hard core players something to brag about, and at really high levels a difference of 2m skill points due to a few double xp weeks will make no difference.
Besides, when players are running around with millions of sp the focus will probably no longer be on skills but on what stuff/territory/etc they can acquire. This would also bring the game more in line with other shooters, close the skill level difference, but give Dust it's own leveling flavor. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.11.07 23:20:00 -
[10] - Quote
1 week |
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