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Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.08 00:03:00 -
[61] - Quote
i was talking about active module that could be fitted or used just like any other one for vehicule.
Hold R2, select active module with wheel, let go of R2. Module doest its magic and then goes to cooldown mode.
Repeat to activate again once cooldown is over. Maybe skills linked to those modules could affect cooldown or activation time lenght. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1182
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 10:52:00 -
[62] - Quote
monday bump.
So what ? i find it hard to believe that no new players find that suggestion interesting ? Why vehicle should be the only ones to have active modules ? |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
200
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 12:58:00 -
[63] - Quote
Definitely a pursuable line of design.
CPU and PG requirements of such modules should be carefully considered, and implementing the modules could take place with a general module rebalance initiative.
One possible way to implement them would be to have them take an equipment slot (as the interface mechanic is already tied to there). In this case, the balancing should be considered from the point of view of equipment slot layout on suits.
Another possible expansion would be to tie the active modules to suits with module bonus from SP, e.g. Assault V = 37,5% more active shield hardener strenght.
Combining the two, some ideas for active module dropsuit perks: - logistics suit could have Repairer+Injector bonus (these should be one tool!) - assault Shield / Armor Hardener bonus (module that reduces damage taken, damage type specific) - heavy "Stance Solidifier" bonus (module that reduces sway from hits taken, long duration active) - scout Personal Cloaking Device duration bonus |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1186
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 14:18:00 -
[64] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Definitely a pursuable line of design.
CPU and PG requirements of such modules should be carefully considered, and implementing the modules could take place with a general module rebalance initiative.
One possible way to implement them would be to have them take an equipment slot (as the interface mechanic is already tied to there). In this case, the balancing should be considered from the point of view of equipment slot layout on suits.
Another possible expansion would be to tie the active modules to suits with module bonus from SP, e.g. Assault V = 37,5% more active shield hardener strenght.
Combining the two, some ideas for active module dropsuit perks: - logistics suit could have Repairer+Injector bonus (these should be one tool!) - assault Shield / Armor Hardener bonus (module that reduces damage taken, damage type specific) - heavy "Stance Solidifier" bonus (module that reduces sway from hits taken, long duration active) - scout Personal Cloaking Device duration bonus
I'm not really that worried about balancing the whole thing. And in fact, i'd say it would be better for those active modules to be set up on high and low slots. I'll explain :
- If you put those on equipment slot, chances are that many people will lone wolf even more, favoring the use of an active module that will further booster their performance over a nanite injector or ammo.
- On the other hand, when one would decide to give up a complex shield extender in order to add an active module that would, say, boost accuracy of their weapon for 30 sec. It's a different bargain, you clearly decide to have lower health for a good boost in accuracy that will last a short amount of time and then cooldown. So, it's pretty much the type of balance we have now : Complex damage ? Complex shield ? Else ?
But, i agree that CPU\PG requirements would need much much attention. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
790
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 17:35:00 -
[65] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Definitely a pursuable line of design.
CPU and PG requirements of such modules should be carefully considered, and implementing the modules could take place with a general module rebalance initiative.
One possible way to implement them would be to have them take an equipment slot (as the interface mechanic is already tied to there). In this case, the balancing should be considered from the point of view of equipment slot layout on suits.
Another possible expansion would be to tie the active modules to suits with module bonus from SP, e.g. Assault V = 37,5% more active shield hardener strenght.
Combining the two, some ideas for active module dropsuit perks: - logistics suit could have Repairer+Injector bonus (these should be one tool!) - assault Shield / Armor Hardener bonus (module that reduces damage taken, damage type specific) - heavy "Stance Solidifier" bonus (module that reduces sway from hits taken, long duration active) - scout Personal Cloaking Device duration bonus
Good general thinking IMO, the CPU/PG are going to be the key element regardless of other aspects. Tho for slot layout I'd suggest that be tied to function of the module itself to maintain proper balance. If Mod adds to dps then it's a high slot, if it gives better armor EHP then it's a low slot, etc.
This way not only is there a requirement for fitting the active mod but use of said mods is less likely to become broken via unintended consequences of multi-stacking the active mods with passive mods which contribute to the same overall effect (damage, defense, what have you).
0.02 ISK Cross |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
201
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 17:54:00 -
[66] - Quote
The philosophy behind using equip slots would be to use module slots to build the frame of fitting: damage, armor, shield, radar. On that you'd put the active speciality.
Not saying it's better than EVE style trade offs on mid and lowslots, but it feels the most natural way to me after some thinking (passive slot, passive slot, important active slot).
A fitting line of thought would be "passive fit built to boost an active mod tactic, dualtank and gank variants of it". Low and mid could have equip slot boosting mods e.g. Repair augmentor... |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
792
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 18:34:00 -
[67] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:The philosophy behind using equip slots would be to use module slots to build the frame of fitting: damage, armor, shield, radar. On that you'd put the active speciality.
Not saying it's better than EVE style trade offs on mid and lowslots, but it feels the most natural way to me after some thinking (passive slot, passive slot, important active slot).
A fitting line of thought would be "passive fit built to boost an active mod tactic, dualtank and gank variants of it". Low and mid could have equip slot boosting mods e.g. Repair augmentor...
I think I see where you're going with that, and it does make a fair amount of intuitive sense. My concerns with linking active mods to equipment alone are as follows.
1) That it would preclude certain active mods from consideration (due to given fitting combinations allowing for game balance to be broken). Tho this could be mitigated (perhaps dealt with completely) via the use of stacking penalties applied to mods that contribute to the same stat.
2) That it would inflate the value of the equipment slot itself thus skewing balance between the dropsuit classes causing Logi suits to gain undo power/effectiveness due to their high number of equipment slots (this is the larger concern of the two as rendering the value of 3/4 of the dropsuits semi-obsolete would be detrimental to the overall game). CPU/PG balancing could somewhat counter how far a Logi suit could stack active mods but Logi's already have some of the best CPU/PG out there due to their support role so if all active mods were bound to equipment slots this would still leave the other suits lagging behind.
Please let me know if I've overlooked/misunderstood something in your proposal.
Cheers, Cross |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
201
|
Posted - 2013.03.11 19:21:00 -
[68] - Quote
The design of specific dropsuits is subordinate to big choices like active mod introduction, so judging them should not be done on current suits. The logi example is good though in that the suit has too big of an inherent advantage in fitting for active mod introduction.
Actually, this topic needs even more publicity NOW as CCP is designing the racial suit lines. The new suit balance needs to take active gear into account beforehand. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
796
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 19:35:00 -
[69] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:The design of specific dropsuits is subordinate to big choices like active mod introduction, so judging them should not be done on current suits. The logi example is good though in that the suit has too big of an inherent advantage in fitting for active mod introduction.
Actually, this topic needs even more publicity NOW as CCP is designing the racial suit lines. The new suit balance needs to take active gear into account beforehand.
I tend to look at balance within a paradigm of "does the new introduction extend what it present without breaking it" as new features/items that break current game functions have game wide balance implication essentially generating extra work as each new release then requires another full game balance sweep. So while I agree active mod introduction is a bigger issue than a specific dropsuit I do think that current game state (which includes certain dropsuits) is a greater issue than introduction of a new feature (be that active mods or something else).
Active mods need to be phased in very carefully, as (depending on the mod and implementation) they could heavily favor a given suit or play style. Equipment only active mods would favor Logi, mods that "feed" off of shields would favor the Scout due to fast regen. Mods that grant short bursts of high mobility would favor Heavies as they overturn a fundamental limitation of the class. Speaking of Heavies they don't really have equipment slot access so an equip slot centric active mod implementation would preclude their use by Heavy players game wide.
I wholeheartedly agree that as CCP moves toward the introduction of racial suit lines and gear variations keeping the implications of active mods in mind is vital for future balance.
thanks for the continuing discussion o7 Cross o7 |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
201
|
Posted - 2013.03.12 21:53:00 -
[70] - Quote
Cheers, good topic.
I have a very idealist approach and look at iterating the big picture along specific choices; hard to come through with the overall picture oft |
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Technical-Support
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
35
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 04:43:00 -
[71] - Quote
cool lets add the same gimmick found in every other game to make DUST even worse. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 07:26:00 -
[72] - Quote
Technical-Support wrote:cool lets add the same gimmick found in every other game to make DUST even worse. Active modules like this exist in EVE already. They exist on vehicles now.
Instead of being sarcastic and trying to be funny, why don't you tell us why you feel they are a gimmick and also why you disagree with these "gimmicks" being any good. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
241
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 09:11:00 -
[73] - Quote
BOOSTERS!!
Injection of nanodrugadrenalineviagrasupersyrum.... something
1 use per clone gives a increase to a specific stat ( speed, recharge, dmg, strength, resists ) and then a crash/side effects to one or more other stats for a restricted time.
You cant resupply them, different variants and strengths. Prices respectively high .
Eg. Quafe Zero booster A-class: 25% boost to top speed, 25% penalty to stamina recharge rate. Lasts 30sec |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 09:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:BOOSTERS!!
Injection of nanodrugadrenalineviagrasupersyrum.... something
1 use per clone gives a increase to a specific stat ( speed, recharge, dmg, strength, resists ) and then a crash/side effects to one or more other stats for a restricted time.
You cant resupply them, different variants and strengths. Prices respectively high .
Eg. Quafe Zero booster A-class: 25% boost to top speed, 25% penalty to stamina recharge rate. Lasts 30sec I like it, sounds cool. Would these be modules then or boosters like the passive/active SP boosters? It would be cool to see some more boosters there for both ISK and Aurum so we can have 24 hours of passive whatever, for a price of course.
Also might I suggest if boosters worked as I have described then active ones would simply appear on the weapon wheel, the same way they do on LAV's. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
242
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 10:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:BOOSTERS!!
Injection of nanodrugadrenalineviagrasupersyrum.... something
1 use per clone gives a increase to a specific stat ( speed, recharge, dmg, strength, resists ) and then a crash/side effects to one or more other stats for a restricted time.
You cant resupply them, different variants and strengths. Prices respectively high .
Eg. Quafe Zero booster A-class: 25% boost to top speed, 25% penalty to stamina recharge rate. Lasts 30sec I like it, sounds cool. Would these be modules then or boosters like the passive/active SP boosters? It would be cool to see some more boosters there for both ISK and Aurum so we can have 24 hours of passive whatever, for a price of course. Also might I suggest if boosters worked as I have described then active ones would simply appear on the weapon wheel, the same way they do on LAV's.
Sorry didnt make this too clear.
Think of them like grenades. You select them, pull out the pin, and then bite a chunk out of your gun and run though a wall.
This is like how boosters work in EVE, forgot Dust had their own lol.
Could work like you get boosters now, or bought like a mod... id lean towards the mod style |
trollsroyce
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
202
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 11:40:00 -
[76] - Quote
Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill" |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
36
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 11:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
ChromeBreaker wrote:RINON114 wrote:ChromeBreaker wrote:BOOSTERS!!
Injection of nanodrugadrenalineviagrasupersyrum.... something
1 use per clone gives a increase to a specific stat ( speed, recharge, dmg, strength, resists ) and then a crash/side effects to one or more other stats for a restricted time.
You cant resupply them, different variants and strengths. Prices respectively high .
Eg. Quafe Zero booster A-class: 25% boost to top speed, 25% penalty to stamina recharge rate. Lasts 30sec I like it, sounds cool. Would these be modules then or boosters like the passive/active SP boosters? It would be cool to see some more boosters there for both ISK and Aurum so we can have 24 hours of passive whatever, for a price of course. Also might I suggest if boosters worked as I have described then active ones would simply appear on the weapon wheel, the same way they do on LAV's. Sorry didnt make this too clear. Think of them like grenades. You select them, pull out the pin, and then bite a chunk out of your gun and run though a wall. This is like how boosters work in EVE, forgot Dust had their own lol. Could work like you get boosters now, or bought like a mod... id lean towards the mod style I like the idea of having these as the current type of boosters we have now in Dust, just add some extra slots. OR the passive booster could be exactly that and be a passive skill that's enabled all the time for a certain time period. ISK versions would degrade very quickly, whereas Aurum versions would degrade slowly.
I do also like the idea for these just to be modules or boosters like in EVE, I just think more options for boosters (the Dust version) can only be a good thing for CCP. |
ChromeBreaker
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
246
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 16:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill"
Thats the ticket |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
809
|
Posted - 2013.03.13 19:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill" +1 |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
37
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:20:00 -
[80] - Quote
trollsroyce wrote:Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill" Do you propose a new slot in fitting? |
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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
822
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 02:44:00 -
[81] - Quote
RINON114 wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill" Do you propose a new slot in fitting?
That's an interesting idea and may be a very viable way to address active mod balance in general. I am not sure what the coding side would require but adding "active slots" to the dropsuit lines could be very promising depending on how it was rolled out.
0.02 ISK Cross |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 03:40:00 -
[82] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:RINON114 wrote:trollsroyce wrote:Boosters could well be an active module with one use per supply. "Berserk Pill" Do you propose a new slot in fitting? That's an interesting idea and may be a very viable way to address active mod balance in general. I am not sure what the coding side would require but adding "active slots" to the dropsuit lines could be very promising depending on how it was rolled out. 0.02 ISK Cross I think the easiest way to implement this would be to make these modules as an existing fitting slot. Whether that is the best solution is open for debate but my own view is one of two options:
- Option one: Boosters fit into current slots depending on what they are. "Berserk Pill" could be an equipment slot as it would require "ammo" to use. Other boosters could be some kind of injector or pack that can be used on other peopl or yourself (if you've ever played Brink you may know what I mean). Shield boosters would take up high slots and work as they do in EVE and armour reps would do the same. Access to these would be through the weapon wheel.
- Option two: Boosters as "superpowers" work as the current in-game "Augmentations". These would have a limited time use and would fit into the two categories of active and passive boosters (which are already in the game). They would work similarly to how they work in option one, being selected from the in-battle weapon wheel. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
823
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 03:45:00 -
[83] - Quote
RINON114 wrote: I think the easiest way to implement this would be to make these modules as an existing fitting slot. Whether that is the best solution is open for debate but my own view is one of two options:
- Option one: Boosters fit into current slots depending on what they are. "Berserk Pill" could be an equipment slot as it would require "ammo" to use. Other boosters could be some kind of injector or pack that can be used on other peopl or yourself (if you've ever played Brink you may know what I mean). Shield boosters would take up high slots and work as they do in EVE and armour reps would do the same. Access to these would be through the weapon wheel.
- Option two: Boosters as "superpowers" work as the current in-game "Augmentations". These would have a limited time use and would fit into the two categories of active and passive boosters (which are already in the game). They would work similarly to how they work in option one, being selected from the in-battle weapon wheel.
Option one is my current general frontrunner for the implementation of active mod in general (tho having a specific active mod slot is still an interesting concept to me it's by no means something I'm 'married to')
Option two is an intriguing concept that may open up some interesting options, either a wider AUR market for CCP or some ISK market options for those without AUR to make use of the augmentation slots (perhaps additions of both kinds?)
0.02 ISK Cross |
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
3158
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 04:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
This also fits: Infantry Jumper (based on this) Infantry equipment that makes the user capable of instantly teleporting, or "jumping" from one spot to the next after charging.Tthe device will allow the user to jump over 100 meters in any direction where aimed; even straight up into the air. There is also a considerable cooldown after the jumps.
Standard: Infantry Jumper Range: 120 meters Charge: 4 seconds Noise rating: medium Overheat rate: 50% per jump Cooldown rate: 30% per jump
Standard: Stealth Infantry Jumper Range: 100 meters Charge: 4 seconds Noise rating: low Overheat rate: 50% per jump Cooldown rate: 30% per jump
Standard: Breach Infantry Jumper Range: 160 meters Charge: 7 seconds Noise rating: loud Overheat rate: 60% per jump Cooldown rate: 30% per jump
Standard: Quickjump Infantry Jumper Range: 80 meters Charge: 2 seconds Noise rating: medium Overheat rate: 20% per jump Cooldown rate: 20% per jump
Active modules, equipment, or weapons, as long as we get cool stuff, it matters not to me. |
RINON114
B.S.A.A.
39
|
Posted - 2013.03.14 05:31:00 -
[85] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:RINON114 wrote: I think the easiest way to implement this would be to make these modules as an existing fitting slot. Whether that is the best solution is open for debate but my own view is one of two options:
- Option one: Boosters fit into current slots depending on what they are. "Berserk Pill" could be an equipment slot as it would require "ammo" to use. Other boosters could be some kind of injector or pack that can be used on other peopl or yourself (if you've ever played Brink you may know what I mean). Shield boosters would take up high slots and work as they do in EVE and armour reps would do the same. Access to these would be through the weapon wheel.
- Option two: Boosters as "superpowers" work as the current in-game "Augmentations". These would have a limited time use and would fit into the two categories of active and passive boosters (which are already in the game). They would work similarly to how they work in option one, being selected from the in-battle weapon wheel.
Option one is my current general frontrunner for the implementation of active mod in general (tho having a specific active mod slot is still an interesting concept to me it's by no means something I'm 'married to') Option two is an intriguing concept that may open up some interesting options, either a wider AUR market for CCP or some ISK market options for those without AUR to make use of the augmentation slots (perhaps additions of both kinds?) 0.02 ISK Cross My thinking exactly. The Aurum market can definitely do with more options as personally I don't think I could justify paying real money to just lose something in battle, but I could easily justify spending money on something that is a little more permanent than an accidental death in skirmish, and I'm certain that I'm not alone here.
As for the idea of these "infantry jumper" modules: they need work and I'm not sure this is the discussion for them but my 0.02 isk is that the range is, well, ludicrously ridiculous as well as the cooldown. Maybe a jump of 10 meters and a cooldown of 60-180 seconds would be far more reasonable.
Back to the topic, I think both option one and two could work combined. We get more permanent stats as augmentations that give small boosts over long periods of time AND we have active boosters which give huge boosts and are used up in battle as either equipment or a new fitting slot. |
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