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[Request] 'Kill stealing' fix

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Aesiron Kor-Azor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2012.10.25 06:30:00 - [1] - Quote The Issue: Okay the issue right now is that some people can get away with 'stealing' a kill by killing a target that has been gunned down to 10% health and obtaining double the points to the person who started shooting. So it's unfair to spend several magazines taking down a heavy before having to reload and someone else takes your kill with half the effort. The Solution - Instead of giving points for 'kill' and 'assist'. Everyone involved in the firefight gets points proportional to the damage incurred. - For example; if one person deals 90% of the damage, another person deals 10%, person A would get 90 points, person B would get 10 points. - However, if only one person is involved in the firefight, the points obtained are halfed (100 to 50). - This would fix 'kill stealing' and grant an opportunity to encourage co-operative firefights, rather than one man army situations...
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 363	Posted - 2012.10.25 06:59:00 - [2] - Quote It is really annoying. But honestly as time has gone on I've grown to care about it less and less. Someone does it to me, I do it to someone else. It really does equal out in the long run. Players go down fast enough that I don't really think people doing it consistently and on purpose is going to be a problem. The ultimate goal is victory for the team, doesn't matter your individual score. It tends to happen to my HMG pretty frequently but I think it's better left alone at this point so nothing else gets screwed up in the process. Later on it's an issue that should definitely be looked in to, though. That's what I think, anyway. Might be more of a problem for other people.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.10.25 07:21:00 - [3] - Quote Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote: - For example; if one person deals 90% of the damage, another person deals 10%, person A would get 90 points, person B would get 10 points. - However, if only one person is involved in the firefight, the points obtained are halfed (100 to 50). - This would fix 'kill stealing' and grant an opportunity to encourage co-operative firefights, rather than one man army situations... I lol'd. So, getting a 100% damage kill becomes less valuable than a 99% damage kill, and players will tick down enemies as low as they can get them, hoping a buddy will do the deed? That's your solution? I think you need to reconsider the ideas you are putting forth. Honestly, you need to look at it less as "kill stealing" and more as "*TEAM WORK*" - problem solved, you're no longer an a$$hole. This game is all about team work, you can't "steal" a common objective.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2012.10.25 09:02:00 - [4] - Quote I wouldn't have put it like that, but Mordekaiser is right. In the scenario you mentioned with the heavy I would be more concerned with him getting his forge gun or HMG trained on me than an extra 25 WP.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 414	Posted - 2012.10.25 09:28:00 - [5] - Quote Maybe just give 50 points to the person that did the most instead of the last bit of damage. Would be simpler to code and leave wp given out the same. I don't think it's really a issue though, as it roughly cancels out.
Aesiron Kor-Azor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2012.10.25 14:36:00 - [6] - Quote Veigar Mordekaiser wrote: Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote: - For example; if one person deals 90% of the damage, another person deals 10%, person A would get 90 points, person B would get 10 points. - However, if only one person is involved in the firefight, the points obtained are halfed (100 to 50). - This would fix 'kill stealing' and grant an opportunity to encourage co-operative firefights, rather than one man army situations... I lol'd. So, getting a 100% damage kill becomes less valuable than a 99% damage kill, and players will tick down enemies as low as they can get them, hoping a buddy with do the deed? That's your solution? I think you need to reconsider the idea's you are putting forth. Honestly, you need to look at it less as "kill stealing" and more as "*TEAM WORK*" - problem solved, you're no longer an a$$hole. This game is all about team work, you can't "steal" a common objective. Calm down there's no need to get all angry over it. You're saying I am not talking about team work but my whole idea encourages you to work as a team to get kills, because if you work with others the points available doubles... And kill stealing is a problem because people who deserve more points get less... my solution encourages team work, perhaps if you had continued to read after a certain point.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.25 14:57:00 - [7] - Quote +1 I'm a long time supporter of points proportional to damage done to an enemy. Do 90% of the damage even though you only get an assist? You should get 90% of the points for the kill. Do 10% of the damage even though you get the kill? You should get only 10% of the points for the kill. I am against cutting down full kill points by half because its like a punishment where there should be a reward, though I understand how it would encourage teamwork though. EDIT: If you want to encourage teamwork, don't punish solo kills, but simply give a war point bonus for kills accomplished with the efforts of 2 or more players, like a +10 team bonus.
Mobius Wyvern BetaMax. 1216	Posted - 2012.10.25 16:09:00 - [8] - Quote I just can't see a reason to care. My KDR is of no interest to me.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:03:00 - [9] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: I just can't see a reason to care. My KDR is of no interest to me. Its more about getting fair and proportionate distribution of war points than it is about KDR, so its more about the war points, well to me at least. I don't think the OP meant it would affect KDR, just the points you get for war points and assists.
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:07:00 - [10] - Quote How about no KDR is meh at best, only those who are playing for themselves care about this idea and do not care about the win for the team

Longshot Ravenwood Algintal Core Gallente Federation 680	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:20:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I just can't see a reason to care. My KDR is of no interest to me. Its more about getting fair and proportionate distribution of war points than it is about KDR, so its more about the war points, well to me at least. I don't think the OP meant it would affect KDR, just the points you get for war points and assists. The warpoints are ultimately for your squad leader and not for the individual and this doesn't cover several situations that ultimately result in kill assists being earned when a player wouldn't have earned a kill at all. Some weapons are designed as area-of-denial. HMGs, Mass Drivers, Laser Rifles, Sniper Rifles etc.. You will frequently see enemies who are able to use cover to get away from the damage before it becomes fatal and do so as a result of the attack pattern. I don't feel that someone deserves 10 wp for a kill instead of the full 50 wp just because they were thinking about what they were doing when they saw you attacking and moved to cut off the enemy's avenue of escape. If you're rolling with your squad, and your squadies are the ones who get the extra WP for the "kill steal" it's moot. Because the squad leader still gathers all of the WP up in the end. You can see your allies on the mini map. So if you're engaging the enemy you should really know at the start if there's a risk or chance of a kill being stolen. It's not going to usually be a surprise. The enemy can see your allies engaging him. You have no way of knowing if you'd have survived the encounter without their help. When it's 2 v 1 you know you can go all in and unless your opponent is exceptionally skilled or your support is exceptionally inept you'll typically come out on top. Are you already dead when you get the kill assist? I know I usually am. I don't think I'd deserve 90 points for doing 90% of the damage, when the other guy already killed me, but it is nice to get the assist and know he's dead.
Free Beers Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 1041	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:32:00 - [12] - Quote No one cares.
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2012.10.25 17:48:00 - [13] - Quote -1. For me this game is about team play. If you're fixating on how many kills you made then you're a bad team player. If your thinking is that you're missing out on SP, don't. If you play with the team, the SP will come to you.
Aesiron Kor-Azor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 39	Posted - 2012.10.25 18:05:00 - [14] - Quote Oxskull Duncarino wrote: -1. For me this game is about team play. If you're fixating on how many kills you made then you're a bad team player. If your thinking is that you're missing out on SP, don't. If you play with the team, the SP will come to you. Dude no need for the lame imaginary '-1', if anything my idea supports team play... got to hate people who just look at comments to decide whether my post is meaningful or not.. And for others, this doesn't affect K/D... it just distributes points proportionally to be fairer on people who have spent much more effort on killing someone..
Sniper City Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2012.10.25 19:28:00 - [15] - Quote hell yes
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2012.10.25 20:09:00 - [16] - Quote Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote: Oxskull Duncarino wrote: -1. For me this game is about team play. If you're fixating on how many kills you made then you're a bad team player. If your thinking is that you're missing out on SP, don't. If you play with the team, the SP will come to you. Dude no need for the lame imaginary '-1', if anything my idea supports team play... got to hate people who just look at comments to decide whether my post is meaningful or not.. And for others, this doesn't affect K/D... it just distributes points proportionally to be fairer on people who have spent much more effort on killing someone.. Haha, how about you explain to me that having a team mate that moans that you took their kill adds to a team. An viable enemy target appears. You're reaction should be to drop them, not look around to see if a bud nearby should have the kill. You drop them fast. It only takes a second for a grenade to be thrown by the tango, or a lucky burst head shot, etc. Hahaaa, I'm so glad non of my Corp have ever sprouted kitten like this. I'll give you and those like you this, ye mostly give me a good laugh with the posting ye do.
Vincam Velmoriar Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 103	Posted - 2012.10.25 20:37:00 - [17] - Quote Kill stealing is a non factor. It evens out over time. Once it happens to you, and then you'll do it to someone else (not on purpose, of course, but because there are 5 guys running at you and you are trying to kill them all) Also, it's not kill stealing unless someone is actively preventing you from stealing your kill, like standing in front of you. Otherwise it's just a part of battle. I also agree that if you're a true team player, you won't care about your KDR, you'll care about who wins or loses. Making sure you get "credit" seems to be a selfish mindset, and I don't think any logical argument could be conceived to prove otherwise. It's silly.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.25 20:48:00 - [18] - Quote I don't understand why people here keep mentioning KDR, the OP said nothing about giving the person who dealt the most damage the kill. He is suggesting that war point rewards are proportional to damage dealt. Do most of the work, get most of the pay, the person who actually deals the finishing blow would still get the kill, and get the kill credit. This is how BF3 scores kills and assists and its not terrible and broken or evil. It actually works pretty well, this isn't some radical new idea that has never been attempted in shooters before; it has been done before, and it worked pretty well. No I'm not making the argument "game X has it, therefore Dust should have it too", I'm just saying it works. War points is not just about feeding your squad leader strikes for free kills, it determines your SP rewards. The only half points for a solo kill idea is very bad though.
Veigar Mordekaiser Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 676	Posted - 2012.10.26 02:20:00 - [19] - Quote Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote: Calm down there's no need to get all angry over it. You're saying I am not talking about team work but my whole idea encourages you to work as a team to get kills, because if you work with others the points available doubles... And kill stealing is a problem because people who deserve more points get less... my solution encourages team work, perhaps if you had continued to read after a certain point. Perhaps teamplay is encouraged if you're already with a team, but if you look at what people do to earn WP now, you should realize that a lot of people will do just about anything to get their WP higher. In turn, that means you're going to have a bunch of pubbies running around ticking people down to super low HP, and then waiting for a sniper or passing player to do the deed. This will just bring about more "exploits" (could you even call it that?) and dumbasses. The kill system is fine as it is.
Tony Calif Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 2002	Posted - 2012.10.26 03:01:00 - [20] - Quote Hahahaha all your kills are MINE!!!

Tyrus Four 128	Posted - 2012.10.26 03:46:00 - [21] - Quote the only thing that needs to be done is the addition of a new stat: Deathblows. roll Kill Assists into the current Kill Stat. Then we all HTFU and stop whining selfishly about "stealing kills". This is a team game.
Grims Tooth Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 8	Posted - 2012.10.26 04:32:00 - [22] - Quote My suggestion would be to keep the 100 WP for the person who get the kill, and scale the assists by how much damage you do up to 90 WP. If it is structured this way then it will encourage teamwork because in the long run everyone will get more WP if you have multiple teammates firing on a single enemy.
BASSMEANT ZionTCD Legacy Rising 110	Posted - 2012.10.26 17:07:00 - [23] - Quote no such thing as kill stealing lock this thread. Peace B
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 314	Posted - 2012.10.26 17:31:00 - [24] - Quote I'm not opposed to getting points dependent on damage percentage but that may be harder to calculate (more data tracking for the game). I'm mostly for this just to pacify the people whining about "kill stealing". I personally don't care or think it is a real issue but I know those people are the same type of player who will think that justifies team killing a player for essentially helping them take down an opponent (once friendly fire is in the game).
Berserker007 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 206	Posted - 2012.10.26 21:30:00 - [25] - Quote simple solution: Step 1: change kills to 100pts Step 2: person who gets kill get 100pts Step 3: person who did damage get a point value from 1-99 on amount of damage they did
Illuminaughty-696 Omega Risk Control Services 203	Posted - 2012.10.26 22:59:00 - [26] - Quote I just want to see a kill assist column at the end of the battle. As long as I get some recognition for the assists I'll be happy. I swear one match I went 40+ assists; only got 2 kills that match and died 2 times so my KDR was 1:1, but I feel like I helped kill EVERYONE!
Oxskull Duncarino Shadow Company HQ 165	Posted - 2012.10.26 23:47:00 - [27] - Quote Illuminaughty-696 wrote: I just want to see a kill assist column at the end of the battle. As long as I get some recognition for the assists I'll be happy. I swear one match I went 40+ assists; only got 2 kills that match and died 2 times so my KDR was 1:1, but I feel like I helped kill EVERYONE! That would be a nice addition alright.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2012.10.27 02:42:00 - [28] - Quote But what are WP used for really? To call down an orbital strike or precision strike? Are they used for anything else? I don't think they have any effect on SP or ISK reward. They're just a big pool of points built up to be used during that particular engagement. And as far as I can tell, WPs don't affect ISK or SP gains. It's what you did while you play. Regardless of whether I gain a large or small amount of WP, my ISK and SP rewards are pretty constant. I've played games where I've hacked a lot and got great WP, but my consistent IKS/SP gain. I've had games, more often than not, where I hardly hack anything and get around 200WP and still have about the same ISK/SP gains as usual.
Chalybeia Aquila Doomheim 10	Posted - 2012.10.27 06:54:00 - [29] - Quote Aesiron Kor-Azor wrote: The Issue: Okay the issue right now is that some people can get away with 'stealing' a kill by killing a target that has been gunned down to 10% health and obtaining double the points to the person who started shooting. So it's unfair to spend several magazines taking down a heavy before having to reload and someone else takes your kill with half the effort. The Solution - Instead of giving points for 'kill' and 'assist'. Everyone involved in the firefight gets points proportional to the damage incurred. - For example; if one person deals 90% of the damage, another person deals 10%, person A would get 90 points, person B would get 10 points. - However, if only one person is involved in the firefight, the points obtained are halfed (100 to 50). - This would fix 'kill stealing' and grant an opportunity to encourage co-operative firefights, rather than one man army situations... Its a good idea but the points shouldnt be halfed. I would also add 25 points just for the kill. A deals 90 % damage and B deals 10 % but does the last shoot so A gets 90 points and B 10+25=35 points.
Necrodermis GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention 460	Posted - 2012.10.27 08:29:00 - [30] - Quote i would like it to be fixed. but it is not game breaking at this time. as long as my team is pushing and trying to win getting a kill vs not getting the kill isn't that important. taking down tanks is a team effort and if everyone hammers it equally it doesn't matter who gets the final HP because the enemy will be isk negative for the match and that is always a glorious sight.

Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 53	Posted - 2012.10.27 17:17:00 - [31] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Mobius Wyvern wrote: I just can't see a reason to care. My KDR is of no interest to me. Its more about getting fair and proportionate distribution of war points than it is about KDR, so its more about the war points, well to me at least. I don't think the OP meant it would affect KDR, just the points you get for war points and assists. Your kills also count towards your skillpoint progression much more than an assist. So indirectly it has nothing to do with kdr but because the goal of the game is to make is and get sp it kind of boils down to getting craps points for assist when you do most the work.
Tosh Tearg BetaMax. 53	Posted - 2012.10.27 17:19:00 - [32] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: But what are WP used for really? To call down an orbital strike or precision strike? Are they used for anything else? I don't think they have any effect on SP or ISK reward. They're just a big pool of points built up to be used during that particular engagement. And as far as I can tell, WPs don't affect ISK or SP gains. It's what you did while you play. Regardless of whether I gain a large or small amount of WP, my ISK and SP rewards are pretty constant. I've played games where I've hacked a lot and got great WP, but my consistent IKS/SP gain. I've had games, more often than not, where I hardly hack anything and get around 200WP and still have about the same ISK/SP gains as usual. Try going 10-1 without hacking and you'll see the amount kills add to your wallet and sp gain vs hacking and the other non kill related wp payouts.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 168	Posted - 2012.10.28 05:51:00 - [33] - Quote Tosh Tearg wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: But what are WP used for really? To call down an orbital strike or precision strike? Are they used for anything else? I don't think they have any effect on SP or ISK reward. They're just a big pool of points built up to be used during that particular engagement. And as far as I can tell, WPs don't affect ISK or SP gains. It's what you did while you play. Regardless of whether I gain a large or small amount of WP, my ISK and SP rewards are pretty constant. I've played games where I've hacked a lot and got great WP, but my consistent IKS/SP gain. I've had games, more often than not, where I hardly hack anything and get around 200WP and still have about the same ISK/SP gains as usual. Try going 10-1 without hacking and you'll see the amount kills add to your wallet and sp gain vs hacking and the other non kill related wp payouts. I spec AV so going 10-1 is most likely never going to happen for me, but thanks.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2012.10.28 05:54:00 - [34] - Quote WP do affect SP gains, got it confirmed in the IRC.
Raze galder Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.10.28 12:29:00 - [35] - Quote How about u take the kill and divide it by how many people shot at it so say 1person shoots and kills they get 100 points 2 people do it they both get 50 so if a teammate saves u you both get points even if u did a good portion of the work and he did not everyone would be getting the same amount of points.
Drake Tsuka Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 19	Posted - 2012.10.28 16:08:00 - [36] - Quote How about each target being worth 100 points and is equally divided by everyone that is involved in that kill, so 5 people bring someone down they each get 20 points or another solution is everyone involved in the kill gets the full 100 points, so working as a team really pays off
Noc Tempre Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1170	Posted - 2012.10.28 16:21:00 - [37] - Quote What a waste of limited resources. Not to mention the health bar is constantly moving up as well so damage would exceed 100%. If you want your kills stolen less just run solo.
NeoprotoD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 28	Posted - 2012.10.28 19:18:00 - [38] - Quote To those that say K/D ratio doesn't matter say that to the team that runs out of clones. As for OP he has a point, people should get points proportional to the amount of damage they dealt. I'd also like to see that design applied to hacks. At present if you start the hack you get 100 points if it goes through whereas if someone who invests SP in hacking starts a fraction of a second after you but contributes more to the hack they still only get partial points.


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