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How to fix the SP system by ALM1GHTY_STATIUS.

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ALM1GHTY STATIUS 138	Posted - 2012.10.19 01:49:00 - [1] - Quote okay so I'm just gonna make up some easy to work with numbers here, let's say you get 100% SP for the first hour that you're playing dust, then after that you start to get 50% for the next hour 25% the next and so on and so forth. I kind of like the idea of the SP cap but it needs some tweaking for the new players in the game. What needs to be done is once you play your, in this example, 4 hours of play you get locked out from SP, new players should receive 200% if they do not have the current maximum number of skill points, and the same cutting method can be used as stated above, and their limit should be doubled at least, this provides a system where it is easier for new players to feel like they have a chance to get better at the game, while still providing pretty decent, anti-nolifing. What do you guys think? This may not be a perfect method but could be altered to fix what CCP thinks is right.
ReGnUM ZionSLAYER DEI 18	Posted - 2012.10.19 01:52:00 - [2] - Quote Didn't even read it... but I agree
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 01:58:00 - [3] - Quote I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full.
MItt R0mney Doomheim 58	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:03:00 - [4] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. Remember, this is an FPS console crowd. Players need to feel that they are getting rewarded for the amount of work they are doing. Eve style leveling wouldn't be very attractive in an FPS.
Super Cargo Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 428	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:08:00 - [5] - Quote I vehemently hate no-lifers, but hard-capping SP after a certain number of hours might be counter-productive. The people that spend all the money are the absurdly wealthy and the no-lifers. If no-lifers are limited in the amount of time they can earn XP, they will probably leave and find another game that meets their grinding needs. If the no-lifers who are spending all the money leave, there won't be enough cash flow for CCP to support Dust. If the F2P model doesn't work for Dust, it will either be abandoned or move to subscription-based. We will need to live with no-lifers no-lifing. The only other solution would be hard-capping SP gain at a certain amount of time during a 24 hour period, and then charging people who wanted to earn more SP on top of that. That way, CCP would earn keep their top spenders and earn even more money off of them. This wouldn't affect your average gamer because most people won't play more than an hour or two a day.
Altina McAlterson TRUE TEA BAGGERS 362	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:08:00 - [6] - Quote I'm not entirely sure that a passive system is right for this type of game. EVE is a slow-paced, long term game. I can say that a slow-paced long term FPS would completely suck and be stupid. EVE used to give new players double training speed for a period of time. Wouldn't something like that work? Say your first 3 mil sp is only subject to the daily decrease and is not capped and the passive rate is doubled. So you get that much in a couple of days or a couple of weeks, so what? That's more than enough for the basic skills needed to feel competitive and isn't going to make anyone "OP"(or more accurately able to actually kill another player, they're the same thing it seems). Everyone wins and no one gets bored. Handicapping the higher level players is fine. I don't want to hear the "punished for success" crap either. If you're succeeding then you're not being punished. But I'm not sure forcing new players (the more active ones) to wait a week or more to train up the basic skills to do what they want is the way to go.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 02:10:00 - [7] - Quote MItt R0mney wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. Remember, this is an FPS console crowd. Players need to feel that they are getting rewarded for the amount of work they are doing. Eve style leveling wouldn't be very attractive in an FPS. Ah. Sorry. I forget that there's not many of us that have the patience to not have a problem with time based skilling. Being an older console gamer, since the first TV pong console, I also forget that most of today's players, not to mention society, must have instant gratification.
PEEEEEEETREEEEEEEEEEEEEE Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 781	Posted - 2012.10.19 03:11:00 - [8] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: MItt R0mney wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. Remember, this is an FPS console crowd. Players need to feel that they are getting rewarded for the amount of work they are doing. Eve style leveling wouldn't be very attractive in an FPS. Ah. Sorry. I forget that there's not many of us that have the patience to not have a problem with time based skilling. Being an older console gamer, since the first TV pong console, I also forget that most of today's players, not to mention society, must have instant gratification. GET OFF MY LAWN
Mavado V Noriega SyNergy Gaming 2283	Posted - 2012.10.19 03:15:00 - [9] - Quote Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. or ppl that dont sign up on day 1.
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 03:44:00 - [10] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. or ppl that dont sign up on day 1. I didn't sign up day 1 for Eve and I did just fine. As soon as my financial situation stabilizes I'll be back in New Eden, and I'll still play Dust.

Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2012.10.19 07:46:00 - [11] - Quote Mavado V Noriega wrote: Shijima Kuraimaru wrote: I think the SP system would be fine if CCP used the same time based skill que system that's used in Eve. Then the only people at any disadvantage would be the people who can't figure out how to keep their skill que full. or ppl that dont sign up on day 1. Once again, aint a problem..... After a rather short period of time, you're as efficient as any older guy in battle skills in ONE Specialty. Can tell, did it in EVE. I have as much skill in planetary interactions and frigate manoeuvering as any average 2-3 y-old account. And mine is 5-6 month of actual play. SP Cap shouldnt be removed, and it shouldnt be day based but week based like it is now. Tweaks are needed to make sure bigger players feels rewarded and dont reach 0 SP after 2 days. While still keeping them not too far from general crowd in overall SP. => Imagine tournaments with a corp of 24/7 hardcores without a cap. Would be crazy stupid. And would kinda create a barrier inside the game between players. Oh, and i absolutely dont care about the "elitism" side of games. People stating about how every game has elite players and clearly imply they're one of them are just plain cocky. Let's try and remember this aint cod or BF. battles are supposed to be linked to each other, impact each other, impact a whole gaming universe. Having disproportionate growth all over the place wouldnt work imo. And again, people joining later aint a problem as long as there's a proper way to begin (PVE, insta battle matchmaking) my 2 isk
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 391	Posted - 2012.10.19 08:47:00 - [12] - Quote The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal.
AltTest Doomheim 21	Posted - 2012.10.19 08:55:00 - [13] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: okay so I'm just gonna make up some easy to work with numbers here, let's say you get 100% SP for the first hour that you're playing dust, then after that you start to get 50% for the next hour 25% the next and so on and so forth. I kind of like the idea of the SP cap but it needs some tweaking for the new players in the game. What needs to be done is once you play your, in this example, 4 hours of play you get locked out from SP, new players should receive 200% if they do not have the current maximum number of skill points, and the same cutting method can be used as stated above, and their limit should be doubled at least, this provides a system where it is easier for new players to feel like they have a chance to get better at the game, while still providing pretty decent, anti-nolifing. What do you guys think? This may not be a perfect method but could be altered to fix what CCP thinks is right. Yes.
Jax GG Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 84	Posted - 2012.10.19 09:00:00 - [14] - Quote I don't see a massive issue with the current setup, apart from the fact that SP is to quick for some (definitely not me). I'd like to see it gain rate halved but perhaps to introduce a system you see in other games where if you have been logged off for 24hrs or so, you get a 12minute/12 minute average gain rate of double SP. Some of you must have seen it, I think it was prevalent in Lord of the Rings Online. You had this little blue bar that filled up quickly then you were down to standard rate gain. Personally I'd love to see the EvE system though I appreciate that the console crowd would revolt. That said, I think CCP could kill two birds with one stone. I think people need to start accepting that 'pay to win' is a must in any successful game now-a-days and especially so when many games are now free-to-play. I don't know how others out there play, but when I find a game, I play it until it dies, and i hate it when it dies (read SWG). I really don't like to bunny hop around. If having some P2W means that games like this live far far longer.... then bring it in...... I wasn't adverse to it with Plex in EvE and I see nothing wrong with it here. What it generally means is that you get less skilled players running around in equipment they wouldn't normally be able to afford and then they lose it..... and when they lose it, guess who gets it? Some daddy warbucks or some wealthy 'more money than time' people will not kill this game. It's unique to a point being similar to EvE, it takes skill to play. This isn't WoW or LotRo when you get the gear and press a few ordained buttons. This takes skill. So, in summary, lower the SP gained from playing, increase the SP gains passively, allow stat boosters and short gain boosters (varying %'ages for the next 1hr or so). Regards Jax
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.10.19 09:58:00 - [15] - Quote spent a good few years with the eve style skills training system. way back when, no i mean not so long ago, the eve players had learning implants. these implants allowed a player to adjust the base attributes points he had. a top of the range implants could give the pilot five extra points. five implants was used in the clones brain. these implants had a remarked effect on the way a pilot learnt new skills. by means of speeding up the time taken to train a skill. without implants a player would take say 14 days to train a rank 1 skill to a max level five. with implants the same player could train the same skill in under five days. Its about time CCP these implants are shifted to the dust mercs, this way it stops the Sp arguments, everyone is equal the only difference is how the merc uses these implants to the best effect.
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.10.19 10:07:00 - [16] - Quote ReGnUM ZionSLAYER DEI wrote: Didn't even read it... but I agree true to this WE NEED A HARD CAP ON SP GRINDING !!! That is ones you get that amount of SP you cant grind any more SP out of battles END OF IT !!!!
Mr TamiyaCowboy Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 121	Posted - 2012.10.19 10:27:00 - [17] - Quote It wont work like has been said, the players want something to show for the effort put in. and i can bet that this is a big problem that gives CCP the monster of all man headaches. theres those that dont care would like eves style and means of sp gain, a static train by second, min , hour,day,week,month,year. then there are those that want to be uber, they cannot wait they want it foot stomping now. either way CCP has to be fair to both partys and each one wants for them self and not for others. my idea is a fair cross between both partys, all are equal, they only differ in the way they train and the choice of what they train and when. it is not about how much sp you get or have and/or gain. it is about the skills you have and how you use utilize them to the best advantage
BAD FURRY Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 247	Posted - 2012.10.19 10:54:00 - [18] - Quote Mr TamiyaCowboy wrote: It wont work like has been said, the players want something to show for the effort put in. and i can bet that this is a big problem that gives CCP the monster of all man headaches. theres those that dont care would like eves style and means of sp gain, a static train by second, min , hour,day,week,month,year. then there are those that want to be uber, they cannot wait they want it foot stomping now. either way CCP has to be fair to both partys and each one wants for them self and not for others. my idea is a fair cross between both partys, all are equal, they only differ in the way they train and the choice of what they train and when. it is not about how much sp you get or have and/or gain. it is about the skills you have and how you use utilize them to the best advantage like has been said, the players want something to show for the effort put in. ITS CALLED ISK !!!! AND YES IT WILL !
EnglishSnake Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 1012	Posted - 2012.10.19 12:26:00 - [19] - Quote So for 4hrs you only get active SP? Can you log off and relog on and get another 4hrs? if not then it really makes the active 30/7/3 day boosters absolutely useless
Shijima Kuraimaru WarRavens 164	Posted - 2012.10.19 14:31:00 - [20] - Quote Jax GG wrote: If having some P2W means that games like this live far far longer I think P2W would be a big mistake. It rapidly alienates people who can't, or won't, spend large amounts of real money to get the best gear. As it is now, getting a piece of equipment a level before it's ISK equivalent is fine. People can still buy their gear and feel uber for a bit. There's nothing wrong with providing a level playing field for ISK and AUR users.

Dzark Kill Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 115	Posted - 2012.10.19 14:43:00 - [21] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG wrote: The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal. WOW i had to give you a like and your points are valid. Are you feeling ok today? Or has someone hacked your account?
Aighun Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 666	Posted - 2012.10.19 15:41:00 - [22] - Quote Any system that allows you to quickly level one skill set to max but then requires you to have patience and smarts and skills at planning character progression to branch out or efficiently further develop is a good thing. The initial SP that you get with a new character does just that but you need to spend it wisely. It will allow you to compete within a week. If you are like me and level 35 different skills all to level one or two you will get nowhere fast. A good character progression curve with diminishing returns can creat bottlenecks where players bunch up at certain level break points where they are all roughly competitive, before moving up to the next level. Carrot and stick type rewards and lack of reward will keep players of higher level motivated to fight against equals or people with even higher skills and less motivated to curb stomp noobs. That said something does seem off about the diminishing returns for SP gain. We should get rewarded for action in game. But grinding should have diminishing returns. Maybe should be based on number of matches played within a given time, with a cool down period and no payout cap. More like a curve that approaches 0 but never gets there. So if you were grinding day in day out you would always be depleting your diminishing returns meter, but if you were to take a break it would start to refill from that moment. Weekly re-set is not good and only encourages players to play at peak return time rather than when and if they can. Also, this thread gives me hope for DUST. Shows that even as a clunky, laggy, slow paced work in progress, people just can't stay away. As crappy as the game can be there is something compelling that players will return to again and again. And that is what we want, and why skill progression should be something that takes months and years. So that players always have something to come back to.
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 391	Posted - 2012.10.19 16:59:00 - [23] - Quote Dzark Kill wrote: ICECREAMK1NG wrote: The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal. WOW i had to give you a like and your points are valid. Are you feeling ok today? Or has someone hacked your account? lol. That had to hurt.
ALM1GHTY STATIUS 138	Posted - 2012.10.20 02:54:00 - [24] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG wrote: The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal. being equal is not fun, what's the point of playing the damn game if anyone who has skill comes in late and just because I've played since day one I can ROFLSTOMP them all day with no chance of them ever catching up.
ICECREAMK1NG WARRIORS 1NC 391	Posted - 2012.10.20 06:18:00 - [25] - Quote ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: ICECREAMK1NG wrote: The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal. being equal is not fun, what's the point of playing the damn game if anyone who has skill comes in late and just because I've played since day one I can ROFLSTOMP them all day with no chance of them ever catching up. I'm thinking this is your first console FPS. Join ANY FPS later than the first day and you have to work at catching up and learning the game. It's just like life, you get owned as a noob, but stick at it and things improve. I know people, no matter what they have and how much time they put in, they will only ever be average at best. We can't all be good at everything. And ccp trying to make everyone equal because of all the crying that's been done. Is a frikkin joke.
Crimson Moon V Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 184	Posted - 2012.10.20 08:23:00 - [26] - Quote ICECREAMK1NG wrote: ALM1GHTY STATIUS wrote: ICECREAMK1NG wrote: The Berlin wall fell and communism does not work. All men are equal, some are just more equal than others. It doesn't work in RL or video games, why all you idiots, CCP included think it will is laughable. Horrible sometimes being more equal. being equal is not fun, what's the point of playing the damn game if anyone who has skill comes in late and just because I've played since day one I can ROFLSTOMP them all day with no chance of them ever catching up. I'm thinking this is your first console FPS. Join ANY FPS later than the first day and you have to work at catching up and learning the game. It's just like life, you get owned as a noob, but stick at it and things improve. I know people, no matter what they have and how much time they put in, they will only ever be average at best. We can't all be good at everything. And ccp trying to make everyone equal because of all the crying that's been done. Is a frikkin joke. Boosters crying about the SP cap......


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