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Vance Alken
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
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Posted - 2012.10.16 03:48:00 -
[1] - Quote
Well, instead of Hull our meatsacks would have Health, but that's the gist of it. What prompted this decision? |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 03:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vance Alken wrote:Well, instead of Hull our meatsacks would have Health, but that's the gist of it. What prompted this decision?
Infantry shouldn't have health on account of the weapons we're using being too powerful to survive a shot from unarmored. However, vehicles should absolutely have structure hitpoints. |
Shiro Mokuzan
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
106
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 03:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
If it gets through your shield and armor, health won't make a difference against plasma, lasers, missiles, rail guns, and possibly toxic atmospheres. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
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Posted - 2012.10.16 03:59:00 -
[4] - Quote
On top of the fact that they absolutely demolished the usefulness of armor tanking, it makes you feel like a real man because you're basically hull tanking. It's not needed on dropsuits, but vehicles...yes, it's very important. |
Talruum Tezztarozza
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2012.10.16 04:02:00 -
[5] - Quote
Don't forget that we are in space suit here and in the future patch we will go into inhospitable world. Once your suit is breached you are kittened.
I do like the idea of this "fresh" bar as our last line of defense though :p It would be very amusing. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:On top of the fact that they absolutely demolished the usefulness of armor tanking, it makes you feel like a real man because you're basically hull tanking. It's not needed on dropsuits, but vehicles...yes, it's very important.
Agreed. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Mechanically Health vs Hull makes no actual difference and the question really is "why do we die/explode when our armor runs out?"
- When the answer is "because you took X damage in excess of your armor+shield total" then that makes sense.
- When it's "you took damage equal too your armor + shield total" then it doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'd be interested in hearing the reason CCP chose to do it this way.
As far as a "in world" rational? Space Ships have to be able to withstand cosmic and warp forces at a base level before any armor/shield defenses are applied, as such hull integrity is actually quite robust and likely more resilient than an undamaged tank based on expected operational specifications."
But as well all "in world" rationalizations it can be argued more than one way, and untimely really isn't the point in any case.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
Vance Alken
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
The arguements about not being able to survive the dangers of the warzone with no armor don't really make sense, Hull state in Eve is normally incredibly short lived as well, and breaking into it often means death is imminent. Armor in Dust essentially acts the same way right now.
Maybe Health is the wrong term, what about Dropsuit Integrity or something like that, armor and shields are not keeping the environmental dangers away, your suit itself is. (So presumably, with luck, like Eve, one could survive losing all of their Armor and being saved purely by the build of your suit, and not its body armor or shields) |
crazy space
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:56:00 -
[9] - Quote
because once your armor and shields are gone the drop goes down. You are still alive, but your suit is powered down. That is why you get a suicide button.
If anything they should add HP instead of hull. But it's just your bleed out hp. |
Nova Knife
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
785
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 04:59:00 -
[10] - Quote
There actually is a small manner of hull HP.
You can survive being at 0 shield an d 0 armor in some rare occasions if someone can't get that last shot off.
As for why it is not an expanded + semi viable (for real men only) tanking option; Simplicity, mostly. CCP wants to keep the spirit of eve alive in dust but at the same time they want it to remain accessible and not over complicated. It's part of a gentle median of striking the balance between having a lot of options and being overcomplicated. The same reason we only have high and low slots, instead of high + med + low + calibration slots :) |
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Vance Alken
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
94
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 05:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
crazy space wrote:because once your armor and shields are gone the drop goes down. You are still alive, but your suit is powered down. That is why you get a suicide button.
If anything they should add HP instead of hull. But it's just your bleed out hp.
This makes sense, once your dropsuit is sufficiently damaged, it locks up in an attempt to keep the user alive for as long as possible.
I know grenades (and presumably other high-alpha weapons) can instantly kill you, but I wonder if you can go around shooting casualties to prevent revives... (Kinda hard to test as everyone spams O as soon as they fall right now...)
Still, I think I'd rather see the ability to hobble around on my last legs, it'd probably reduce the amount of clone usage as well since people would have some control over their fate other than "Hope you have a good Logi on your team that is also nearby". |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 05:04:00 -
[12] - Quote
Nova Knife wrote:There actually is a small manner of hull HP.
You can survive being at 0 shield an d 0 armor in some rare occasions if someone can't get that last shot off.
As for why it is not an expanded + semi viable (for real men only) tanking option; Simplicity, mostly. CCP wants to keep the spirit of eve alive in dust but at the same time they want it to remain accessible and not over complicated. It's part of a gentle median of striking the balance between having a lot of options and being overcomplicated. The same reason we only have high and low slots, instead of high + med + low + calibration slots :)
My issue here is the transfer of the "burn effect" from hull to armor. If all other things remained as is and that burn were put properly (as per EVE) back onto the 'hull' aspect (for both mercs and vehicles) I'd be much more satisfied.
That wouldn't really be so much more complicated than the current system would it? |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.10.16 05:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Having a body hp of 10-15hp would make sense(it seems to be there already and just hidden). Hostile environments could drain this, so there would be few revives in a toxic atmosphere. Vehicles should have structure I think. |
crazy space
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
879
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 05:47:00 -
[14] - Quote
Vance Alken wrote:crazy space wrote:because once your armor and shields are gone the drop goes down. You are still alive, but your suit is powered down. That is why you get a suicide button.
If anything they should add HP instead of hull. But it's just your bleed out hp. This makes sense, once your dropsuit is sufficiently damaged, it locks up in an attempt to keep the user alive for as long as possible. I know grenades (and presumably other high-alpha weapons) can instantly kill you, but I wonder if you can go around shooting casualties to prevent revives... (Kinda hard to test as everyone spams O as soon as they fall right now...) Still, I think I'd rather see the ability to hobble around on my last legs, it'd probably reduce the amount of clone usage as well since people would have some control over their fate other than "Hope you have a good Logi on your team that is also nearby".
You can double tab people on the ground
Adding hp to this would be rad
Could get skills to extend bleed out hp and such |
Eternal Technique
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
281
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 07:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
Not necessary for dropsuits but a good idea for vehicles |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 08:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:Mechanically Health vs Hull makes no actual difference and the question really is "why do we die/explode when our armor runs out?"
- When the answer is "because you took X damage in excess of your armor+shield total" then that makes sense.
- When it's "you took damage equal too your armor + shield total" then it doesn't make a lot of sense.
I'd be interested in hearing the reason CCP chose to do it this way. As far as a "in world" rational? Space Ships have to be able to withstand cosmic and warp forces at a base level before any armor/shield defenses are applied, as such hull integrity is actually quite robust and likely more resilient than an undamaged tank based on expected operational specifications."But as well all "in world" rationalizations it can be argued more than one way, and untimely really isn't the point in any case. 0.02 ISK Cross
When you have 0 armor and 0 shield, you dont die. It happend to me a bunch of times to survive with 0/0. Having my screen all greyish and my character breathing with pain. ^^ |
Kovinis Sparagas
Final Fortress
Happy Tree Fiends
58
|
Posted - 2012.10.16 09:06:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think because of the size.
Tanks are few meters long, and in eve they are few hundred meters long, if not kilometres.
So of course bigger things got structure |
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