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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
Had a debate with this guy earlier......which is more important?? |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:13:00 -
[2] - Quote
Historically CCP have always made shield tanking better than Armour tanking. |
Naustradamus Oracle
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
61
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Had a debate with this guy earlier......which is more important??
Most will say shields ... but really it's 50/50 ... the only reason you may want to skill up shields is because it'll skill up both shield strength and shield recharger at the same time
me though, I replaced my stamina booster for a militia armor repair. I find it best to have both Regen. As good as shields are, if you've only got 1 armor point left, the enemy will spot that and go straight for you, even if you have 3 other squad mates near you. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Armour as it is the last line of defense |
Icy Tiger
63
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Shield ensures you survive longer. Armor ensures you recover from a really hard fight. Both have ups and downs. Currently, shields are better due to modules exclusive for it, and the lack of low slot modules. |
Logi Bro
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
836
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:25:00 -
[6] - Quote
I quote some random person's comment I saw on a different thread when I say:
On shield tanks, you don't use the armor, just shields.
On armor tanks, you use both the shields and the armor.
Therefore, armor tanks have a greater combined total HP.
On dropsuits I think it's mostly 50/50 |
dent 308
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
967
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:30:00 -
[7] - Quote
Better is subjective and unusable. If you have more low slots you should probably armor tank. If you have more high slots you should probably shield tank. Dust also allows for valid dual tanking which is a cardinal sin in eve.
Shield and armor also have different resist profiles. Shield is weak to EM while armor is weak to explosive for example.
Ever notice how quickly the laser strips shields down but then slows once it hits armor. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
886
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:32:00 -
[8] - Quote
Yeah, see the guy's argument was that he'd rather beef up his armor because its the last line of defense and the shields recharge anyway.
I'm feeling that you have to get through the shields before you get to the armor. You would want to stop a bullet at the kevlar before it hits your chest |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
dent 308 wrote:Better is subjective and unusable. If you have more low slots you should probably armor tank. If you have more high slots you should probably shield tank. Dust also allows for valid dual tanking which is a cardinal sin in eve.
Shield and armor also have different resist profiles. Shield is weak to EM while armor is weak to explosive for example.
Ever notice how quickly the laser strips shields down but then slows once it hits armor.
Slows slightly in my opinion, not nearly as much as it should |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
Legacy Rising
886
|
Posted - 2012.10.10 03:35:00 -
[10] - Quote
dent 308 wrote:Better is subjective and unusable. If you have more low slots you should probably armor tank. If you have more high slots you should probably shield tank. Dust also allows for valid dual tanking which is a cardinal sin in eve.
Shield and armor also have different resist profiles. Shield is weak to EM while armor is weak to explosive for example.
Ever notice how quickly the laser strips shields down but then slows once it hits armor.
You know, I've always wondered if the shield's HP is weaker than the armor's HP. So, is that only on lasers in DUST? |
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Jotun Hiem
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
412
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Posted - 2012.10.10 03:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
I usually just get both. |
Talruum Tezztarozza
Seituoda Taskforce Command
Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:01:00 -
[12] - Quote
If you ask me, I would say shield tanking.
As armor is your last line of defense, when you are downed to armor it's time to run not tank !!
Armor tank, however, has it's merit. It can bait your prey from fleeing thinking they can finish you off. I have seen many people charging at me as a half-armor heavy not knowing I still have more HP left than their shield+armor combined. This can save me from a lot of running and chasing people around. It can be double edge sword though. You may attract way too many people than you can handle. Another downside is that when your tanking fail, you die. There is no plan C for you.
Shield tanking, on the other hand, will have opposite effect. When I run a heavy type II, I face many opponent who just shoot half of my shield, lost a will to fight, turn tail and run. this give me some free shots (and kills if they don't know how to run to cover). This also save me some tanking needed. Make me safer in general. Downside is that I can't really chase them down as a heavy. I usually just ignore them and push on to objective. Shield is also easier to replenish. Make you get back to fight faster.
Of cause I would love some decent laser rifle or EMP grenade to proove me wrong, haven't seen much of those.
In the end of the day, You will need all armor/shield skills you can get to survive as a heavy. either you go heavy type I or II depend on your preference.
Other dropsuit than heavy are not suppose to be tanking at all. In most case, when you deplete all your shield you should just take cover and wait for shield regeneration before continue pushing forward, which make me believe that shield tanking still do you more merit anyway. |
YoUnGcUz
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
67
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
I like shields armor slows you down in combat |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:14:00 -
[14] - Quote
both have their merits
since different weapon dmg affects shield and armor differently |
BLENDEDDAVE
WARRIORS 1NC
52
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
YoUnGcUz wrote:I like shields armor slows you down in combat
type 2 assalut suit is for you and best all round for the$$$ i have had good success with it in the last build @Ydubbs |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:38:00 -
[16] - Quote
Shield. For what I heard that Armor slows down your movement speed. In the previous build, I equip Shield resistance and it really helps when you're taking a hit you have time to react before totally depleted your shield. You survive more with the gun fights. |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:40:00 -
[17] - Quote
Shield will be useless though if you take a hit from Flux grenades. It almost like preventing the shield from regenerate for certain time. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:42:00 -
[18] - Quote
Then it's agreed armour needs a buff? |
TiMeSpLiT--TeR
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
326
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Vermaak Doe wrote:Then it's agreed armour needs a buff?
No. Because it's going to add more clip to kill a player. |
Vermaak Doe
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
385
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Posted - 2012.10.10 04:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
TiMeSpLiT--TeR wrote:Vermaak Doe wrote:Then it's agreed armour needs a buff? No. Because it's going to add more clip to kill a player.
Can't keep a steady target? Or dp you find a massleds energy array to be more resilient than armour? |
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VanguardCommander
Planetary Response Organisation
Test Friends Please Ignore
48
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Posted - 2012.10.10 06:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shields are better cause it recharges and are the Vanguard of defense. |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
1155
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Posted - 2012.10.10 06:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
armor is way underpowered due to the massive difference in repair capacity. you have to rely on a rep dude to be really effecrive. armor tank alone is a lost cause |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
414
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Posted - 2012.10.10 06:31:00 -
[23] - Quote
Once we get larger armour reps, and cap to power them, and resistance mods for infantry we will have better shield vs armour balance. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.10.10 09:00:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ten-Sidhe wrote:Once we get larger armour reps, and cap to power them, and resistance mods for infantry we will have better shield vs armour balance.
Shield or armor... From my point of view most of this depends from your play style.
If you are at first line of fight.. shield + cover is more important.
If you have time to regen armor is good if you have plenty of it.
After testing my play style ... heavy in suit type-II is the best hybrid. (fast regen shield + hard bufor with armor)
At places like ambush only shields can give you little hope. (no time for catch breath)
I still envy asault dropsuits for it fast regen. Get hit .. little cover and back in full. Sometimes to fast.
About tanking here, one bothers me most is that armor tanking is penalized (slow regen).
If CCP want to balance it .. they must give more resist to armor vs shield. This make it somehow equal.
And we dont need biger repers ;) One 5hp do best job. Two or more without resist... pointles (cost/survi) but if you have free ISK, why not.
All is up to you.
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Waruiko DUST
G I A N T
90
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Posted - 2012.10.10 09:06:00 -
[25] - Quote
a proper armor tank is less mobile overall, but has more raw HP because plates give more then extenders do. If I'm about to be ambushed I want to have an armor tank because then I can stand and fight, but if I'm fighting a running battle I want a shield tank for the mobility and natural regen. |
Jack Boost
Zarena Family
194
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Posted - 2012.10.10 09:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Waruiko DUST wrote:a proper armor tank is less mobile overall, but has more raw HP because plates give more then extenders do. If I'm about to be ambushed I want to have an armor tank because then I can stand and fight, but if I'm fighting a running battle I want a shield tank for the mobility and natural regen.
No point to tank armor in ambush, unles you want take 2-3 people vs your 1 lost clone.
If you want 5...10+ vs your 1 lost clone go shield tanking.
And drop armor plates ;) |
HK-40
120
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Posted - 2012.10.10 09:16:00 -
[27] - Quote
Cerebral Wolf Jr wrote:Historically CCP have always made shield tanking better than Armour tanking.
And missles for NPC killing. Makes the decision to go Caldari for farming NPC's a no brainer. |
Needless Sacermendor
Red Fox Brigade
208
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Posted - 2012.10.10 09:40:00 -
[28] - Quote
Certainly with the assault suit ... the type 1 has more armor and the type 2 has more shield so to begin with training your armor skills up in the type 1 and armor tanking it with a rep and plates is the best way to start, some militia shield extenders in the highs give you cheap survivability, and the added armor skills will only benefit your shield tank later on in those tight situations.
When you've got some decent armor levels you can train the shield skills up and move to the type 2 dropping the armor plate, keeping the rep won't cost you movement speed and will maintain a regen and you'll have a free low slot for something else or spare cpu / pg for high slots.
Problem at the moment is we don't have any type 2 advanced or prototype suits, they revert back to the type 1 stats (correct me if I'm wrong) so your shield tank is less effective and having those added armor skills you got will be a great benefit. |
carl von oppenheimer
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
158
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Posted - 2012.10.10 10:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
For now shield tanking works better in DUST.
Until our suits have capacitors and different resists along with ammunition with varying damage shield in general will work better then armour.
From EVE side things are quite different and tank works quite differently in PvE and PvP.
in general it should be that:
Armour benefits:
+ More HP and leaves mid slots empty (more e-war and other utilities but less DPS).
+ slow to non existing drain for capacitor (if cap runs out in EVE = you die, end of).
+ no sig bloom
+ can active tank like a boss
- Slows you down, cannot passive tank and requires a logi-ship unless local repped which may or may not work in PvP (risk when you have to drop EHP to gain speed).
Shield benefits:
+ can have extremely high resists and regenerates it self (passive tanking)
+ can active tank like a boss
+ most shield tanked ships have capless weapon systems (you don't become completely helpless if cap is drained).
+ Uses mid slot so you can have more DPS (in theory as cap regen mods take both mid and low slots).
+ Doesn't slow you down like armour.
- sig bloom (makes you easier to hit with better quality hits).
- active tank consumes a lot of capacitor (as in most ships cannot perma run active shield tank).
- passive tank can be easily overwhelmed in PvP
- less mid slots for e-war
I kind of wish that dust would have as complex tanking as in EVE, in the future it may have but for now we have to settle for a simplified version. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
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Posted - 2012.10.10 12:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
DUST armor taking is like EVE hull tanking... |
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