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Armor "flattening"

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iceyburnz Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 283	Posted - 2012.10.07 12:37:00 - [1] - Quote This was basically the worst nerf to the game since the launch of beta. You've actually rendered all tiers above 1 pointless. Since the CPU and PG values are about the same and skills making little difference, its not going to matter if you can fit 2 high slots later because you'll never have the CPU and PG to use them. As a result of capping damage soak values (theres only so much boost you can squeeze on with module) you've also incidentally screwed up weapon balance, as damage was scaled to match armour. Its great for me since Im playing a sniper, but when I max out those weapon skills I'll be instagibbing everything but heavies. Thats not really fun for anyone else. I think you should go back to the drawing board and maybe think about 5% increases across tiers. Something is better than nothing. Right now, nobody is going to bother, because you put all that time into tiering armours price wise now the price values don't match abilities. Seems like you lost site of your own design goals, eg: do you think null sec players are going to be using the same gear as lowbies? Your patch notes are also slightly misleading, when you state "flattening out" armour and shield differences, perhaps you should have been clear and said flatly (ha) that you removed them completely.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:10:00 - [2] - Quote I disagree. Removing the HP bonuses on Advanced and Proto gear on scouts/assaults/logis was a good thing. And if you can't fit better/more stuff on your Advanced or Proto suits than on Standard, you're doing something wrong. Now, removing HP bonuses on the Advanced and Proto heavy suits was not good. The Proto heavy only has one extra low and one extra high slot over the Standard suit. Scout, assault and logi Proto suits all get one or two extra low slots AND high slots AND one or two extra equipment slots, which obviously makes a huge difference over the Standard suits. The extra low and high slot on the heavy barely makes a difference.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:13:00 - [3] - Quote Standard Assault Suit-I CPU: 30 Power Grid: 150 Prototype Assault Suit vk.1 CPU: 66 Power Grid: 330 So I don't agree that all tiers above 1 are useless and the CPU/PG values are about the same and that you'll never be able to use the additional slots. And you get more bang for your Electronics/Engineering when you're applying that +25% to a larger value as well.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:16:00 - [4] - Quote Fivetimes Infinity wrote: Standard Assault Suit-I CPU: 30 Power Grid: 150 Prototype Assault Suit vk.1 CPU: 66 Power Grid: 330 So I don't agree that all tiers above 1 are useless and the CPU/PG values are about the same and that you'll never be able to use the additional slots. And you get more bang for your Electronics/Engineering when you're applying that +25% to a larger value as well. Exactly, and with Electronics and Engineering at level five, the difference is much bigger.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:55:00 - [5] - Quote Did everyone forget that the higher tech leveled dropsuits also offer other advantages, and including more module slots from equipment to support modules -- High and Low power modules? Because, that is where the real advantage comes from. Besides it was best to do what CCP did.
Fivetimes Infinity Immobile Infantry 1086	Posted - 2012.10.07 13:58:00 - [6] - Quote The OP specifically mentioned the additional slots and went on to say that the PG/CPU bonuses of the suits with the extra slots were so minor you'd never get to use the extra slots. And I specifically responded to this issue. So, no, nobody forgot about that, you just didn't read closely enough.
Avenger 245 Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 477	Posted - 2012.10.07 19:35:00 - [7] - Quote They should increase them HP given from HP boosters to compensate. and to point this out if how much HP depends on slots now then wouldnt the logi be able to fit enough modules to make it the best suit?
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.10.07 20:06:00 - [8] - Quote Avenger 245 wrote: They should increase them HP given from HP boosters to compensate. and to point this out if how much HP depends on slots now then wouldnt the logi be able to fit enough modules to make it the best suit? Yeah it is to some degree. Except for maybe the scouts there's not really a penalty for fitting armor plates now, since strafing is almost non-existant and less movement speed won't have such a big impact. So a fully fitted logi is probably better than a fully fitted assault, even though it would have less movement speed. You only lose a sidearm slot this way, but get some extra equipment slots in return.
Kay High ZionTCD Legacy Rising 86	Posted - 2012.10.07 20:13:00 - [9] - Quote I agree with the OP. If you were to compare the suits we are getting to real life then you see that in RL there is several "Tiers" of armour. For instance you can conpare millitia suits to things like the simple "Battle Rattle" of the Us millitary that just consists of some metal plating only rated for shrapenel, Advanced suits can be compared to the Full Kevlar vests that can take a lot more damage (HP) and is the same weight as the Battle rattle. The Proto suits can be compared to the experimental "Dragon Scale" armour plating that can take multiple shots before the user takes much damage. In all these cases the "HP" of the user increases. I do admit that with current tech we dont have to worry about cpu and PG but the concept is the same. I liked the tiered HP for suits it made it seem that you are getting more powerful but you still died to millitia weapons if you got caught off gaurd or were just stupid.
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 369	Posted - 2012.10.07 20:23:00 - [10] - Quote Kay High wrote: I agree with the OP. If you were to compare the suits we are getting to real life then you see that in RL there is several "Tiers" of armour. For instance you can conpare millitia suits to things like the simple "Battle Rattle" of the Us millitary that just consists of some metal plating only rated for shrapenel, Advanced suits can be compared to the Full Kevlar vests that can take a lot more damage (HP) and is the same weight as the Battle rattle. The Proto suits can be compared to the experimental "Dragon Scale" armour plating that can take multiple shots before the user takes much damage. In all these cases the "HP" of the user increases. Balance > realism. Proto suits were too good over Standard suits. Kay High wrote: I do admit that with current tech we dont have to worry about cpu and PG but the concept is the same. I liked the tiered HP for suits it made it seem that you are getting more powerful but you still died to millitia weapons if you got caught off gaurd or were just stupid. Yes, but unless you was stupid, you was pretty much unkillable by Milita and Standard gear.

Keradil Ledeuxieme Doomheim 24	Posted - 2012.10.07 20:55:00 - [11] - Quote Heavies seem to have gotten the short end of the stick in this patch. I was looking at the suits last night and there was a minimal difference between T1 and proto. I already die way too fast in T1/Militia heavy suits to make them worth while, nevermind the drastic price increase to proto.
Rorek IronBlood ZionTCD Legacy Rising 746	Posted - 2012.10.07 21:24:00 - [12] - Quote A lot of you also forget though that the point of the having different variants such as -- Scout Logistical Assault Heavy Was so that if you wanted more armor then you have the option. What CCP did making them baseline within their respective categories was a good idea. If you are having a problem staying a live that is on you now. Besides the higher level of tech you buy into the more advantages you obtain as it stands -- PG (Power Grid), CPU (Central Processing Unit), equipment and modules slots -- all of which helps you have an advantage over your opponent. You can easily double your shielding or armor plating with the right module or a combination of the afore mentioned. Base shielding and armor between the different categories is a good thing though.


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