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Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
   |
Posted - 2012.10.03 09:19:00 -
[1] - Quote
Either splash damage is too much or there's a bug because it shouldn't be able to kill through a supply depot while it's user sits behind a rock for cover. At the very least there needs to be a visual indicator if this current iteration is maintained because as it stands you can kill/be killed without line of sight or any visual que that you are in danger.  |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 12:50:00 -
[2] - Quote
Maybe this will even now given longer on the build but I've now been killed by the "death from above" launcher more than the GEK (which used to hold pride of place for killing me most last build/out of the gate in this build). |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 14:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
Further reports from the "launcher chronicles". As I get further into the build it's harder to tell which weapon is killing me the most but launchers remain in the top 3.
Beyond that another "feature" of theirs has been revealed to me, their welders can target their own feet without suffering splash damage. This one seems so far out of line as to warrant a [bug] thread but since I have this one going already I'm keeping things condensed. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 16:01:00 -
[4] - Quote
I can now also confirm that their splash damage kills through walls. (Note: this may be a clipping issue since I've encountered broken clipping which allowed players to pass through what should have been a solid roof. I can neither confirm nor rule out this possibility). |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.10.03 18:44:00 -
[5] - Quote
Unnecessary damage buff this build. Trying it another time. I'm just too angry with the whole "Dust is easy" patch. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 03:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:Unnecessary damage buff this build. Trying it another time. I'm just too angry with the whole "Dust is easy" patch.
I'm hoping to see some hotfixes along the way (i.e. that this is not 'working as intended').
It occurs to me that I have neglected relevant details in my prior posts related to the launcher balance. I shall provided them now.
1. I am usually in Logi Type - I armor (the other 25% of the time is Scout Type- I).
2. My fits run with mods for extra total shield amount. My Logi fits also run with increased total armor mods.
(Note: Mods used are basic milita fit due to new character skill/ISK limitations)
3. My related defensive skills (i.e. those that raise total Shields or Armor) are at Level 4
4. My deaths vs the Mass Driver are all single shot kills even when NOT directly hit by the shot.
5. Being in cover, behind an objective/depot, behind a wall does NOT mitigate damage taken, I am still killed with a single shot in all instances.
(Note: The walls in question here are the concrete barriers, steel barricades, building walls with windows, etc. not the completely solid walls of buildings. However they effect damage for all other forms of fire even grenades so something seems out of place).
(Note 2: I am not including in statement 5 any instances where the shot was lobbed over the cover in question).
6a. The effective range of the "launcher" exceeds that of an SMG even when not 'lobbing' shots in long arcs over cover. I realize the SMG is a sidearm where as the launcher is a main weapon but having longer range, one shot kill damage, the tactical advantage to shoot over some types of cover all in addition to splash damage seems out of line with proper balance.
6b. The effective range of the 'launcher' is much shorter than that of the Sniper Rifle, however the rifle lacks splash, appears to have a slightly lower rate of fire(hard to judge, RoF may be proximate), and does less damage per shot. This may or may not be backed up by listed stats, may be a bug of splash and direct damage from the mass driver applying to the same target (not sure if they're coded that way or not) but is certainly the case in game. Since the new build I have witnessed, accomplished, or fallen victim to far few single shot kills from sniper rifles. Not only fewer than last build, but fewer than from the mass driver. There is no viable reason for a splash damage area denial weapon to out single shot damage a sniper rifle of the same meta level (assuming equal character skills).
7. All feedback in this thread has been/is related to the Meta 1 grade of gear, and thus does not include/account for any benefits of higher Meta variants.
8. The feed back up to this point has been from the first few days (less than three) of CODEX, that time frame combined with the gear level in question can reasonably infer that most of the players using it at the time of these observations where not yet trained highly in all the relevant damage related character skills. It may be further assumed (for the same reasons) that the applicable upper Meta damage mods were also not employed.
CCP if there is any more specific/further information you require please ask and I will do my best to provide it. As things currently stand I cannot fathom how the weapon class can be considered to be functioning properly.
Cheers,
Cross |
Jack McReady
A.C.M.E Corp
71
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Posted - 2012.10.04 09:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
not sure if serious but this thread is full of lies.
1. the damage was only increased against vehicles.
2. only the splash radius was increased
3. easy to dodge as hell
4. it will not even kill a scout suit in one shot with just the splash damage, although a direct hit could depending on the fittings.
if you get hit at range by this slow moving projectile, well then you have issues, but it is not the mass driver. |
dust badger
BetaMax.
283
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Posted - 2012.10.04 09:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
im sorry cross but i use the mass driver and the only time i one shot someone is a poorly fit scout suit shot right at their feet and i am using the EXO one (sorry dont know proper name, you need MD operation to 3 to use) most of the time it takes multiple shots and alot of the time i have to finish them off with the SMG, think how easy it is to finish someone off with the AR |
Tony Calif
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
2002
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:04:00 -
[9] - Quote
The mass driver should lose almost every 1 vs 1 tbqh. It's a suppression / support weapon. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.04 13:08:00 -
[10] - Quote
Tony Calif wrote:The mass driver should lose almost every 1 vs 1 tbqh. It's a suppression / support weapon.
This is my understanding as well. Based on this understanding I have not found them to be functioning as intended in Codex.
dust badger wrote:im sorry cross but i use the mass driver and the only time i one shot someone is a poorly fit scout suit shot right at their feet and i am using the EXO one (sorry dont know proper name, you need MD operation to 3 to use) most of the time it takes multiple shots and alot of the time i have to finish them off with the SMG, think how easy it is to finish someone off with the AR
This is odd, and causes me to wonder if there is some bug or other factor in play as your experience with it's use clearly doesn't match my observations of it's use and experience combating it.
Any ideas how we could attempt to narrow down variables which might be effecting things?
Jack McReady wrote:not sure if serious but this thread is full of lies.
1. the damage was only increased against vehicles.
2. only the splash radius was increased
3. easy to dodge as hell
4. it will not even kill a scout suit in one shot with just the splash damage, although a direct hit could depending on the fittings.
if you get hit at range by this slow moving projectile, well then you have issues, but it is not the mass driver.
Thread is completely serious and contains no lies whatsoever. All observations posted by me are my own and as such are both anecdotal and based on a small data set (when compared to game wide play) be are as detailed and accurate as I can make them.
In response to your list
1. I did not read the Patch Notes for Mass Drivers either in Codex or the prior build because I was in a game with one once, maybe twice total during the entirety of last build. During this build however they are a frequent presence and highly notable.
2. I was not "one shotted" during the prior build when faced with a Mass Driver but have been in each instance in Codex. Perhaps there are some skills and/or bugs in play but this seems out of line with proper function.
3. subjective statement provided without context, I will however attempt to infer context and respond I infer that you are reacting to my statement that dodging a driver charge can be problematic lacking a sufficient visual cue. I shall further assume that your assessment of how easy the are to dodge is based more on projectile speed than situation indicators.
Please clarify your third assertion if either my inference or assumption are inaccurate.
4. The Mass Driver quite handily, and consistently one shots both my Scout and Logi type 1 suits. I cannot however confirm or deny of all cases are splash damage, direct damage, or a mix. I would assume a mix based on sheer probability factors but have no actual data for that assessment.
In response to your final statement.
- Please define "at range".
*] Please provide a frame of reference for "slow moving" (obviously it's slower than a sniper or AR round once fired, but without a context the statement is purely subjective).
*] The final part of your statement seems to imply that you discount out of hand any possible mechanical or technical errors for the Mass Driver within the Dust 514 beta opting instead to lay any and all responsibility at the feet of player skill.
Upon what grounds and with what data do you make that assessment?
In closing this is a feedback thread in a beta forum, the feedback is honest and accurate to the best of my ability to report it (why bother doing anything else?) but is necessarily a limited sampling. I quite welcome the the constructive feedback and observations of other beta testers whether or not is coincides with my own, but please keep feedback detailed and constructive so as not to bog the post down with useless bloat.
0.02 ISK
Cross |
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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
3064
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Posted - 2012.10.04 14:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sounds like people get uncomfortable and call OP whenever the weapon that kills them isn't the assault rifle.
If there are bugs with the mass driver (like damage through solid object, and 1-hit kill splash damage) that needs to be looked at, then fine, but the stats of the weapon is ok. Radius, and splash damage should not be nerfed.
I find the idea that the mass driver shouldn't be able to win 1 vs 1 completely ridiculous. Any underpowered weapon can just be labeled "support weapon" as a way to legitimize a balance issue. If such a weapon is suppose to lose all the time, why would anyone use it? what advantages is there to using such a weapon? If they get nerfed, they need something to make up for it that will make them worth using; like lighting a fire where they detonate for some real area denial. |
Cross Atu
Conspiratus Immortalis
775
|
Posted - 2012.10.05 14:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
Further testing update.
Most data (suit, fits, etc) the same as above.
Mechanics now L5
Shield skills L4
Mass drivers will still 1 hit kill Scout Type I suits.
Mass drivers will not 1 hit Logi Type I suits.
I have been able to observe a few instances of confirmed splash only damage against the Logi Type I suits, damage from these shots does not significantly damage armor, strips shields.
(Note1: In each instance of confirmed splash only damage others joined the fire fight damage is slightly more approximate).
(Note 2: Unlike prior test data one instance of confirmed splash damage was from the Meta 3 "Tsunami", splash from the Meta 3 weapon was not visibly higher than it's Meta 1 counterpart.)
To reiterate, this is a beta and I am attempting to participate in testing, I welcome all testing from other betas regardless of whether it coincides with my own experiences but let's please keep this thread constructive (i.e. as free from trolling and bickering as possible).
Cheers,
Cross |
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