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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.24 05:57:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hello and welcome to future features that need to be discussed now instead of after the fact.
IRC has gotten bored to the point we're arguing about features that don't exist yet.
Newest Hot Button Topic is Drones.
This is however taking in the nature of New Eden Drones used in warfare has been long standing in lore, practiced in eve, and some fear an eventuality in Dust 514. So this is why this discussion is needed now.
First I'll present several types of drones we can then decide where to go from there of what is acceptable and isnt acceptable.
All Drones
All Drones will have HP and should be destroyable by various means including Flux Grenades and weapons fire.
Drones give positions away better when fired or deployed.
Drones will eat bandwidth regardless as do new weapons or new modules will
Drones should be a seperate skill group increasing thier Control, HP, endurance, range, and effects, as well as types.
Drones unless specified should cost isk per loss and cannot be restocked mid combat.
Type I 'Shot Type'
Counts as ammo, these drones are fired from weapon systems and deliver damage over time instead of instantly, they have range and life time issues, long range shots barely do damage while shorter range shots do more damage overall but run the risk of not doing enough damage against target in time to save the operator. These will be tied into the weapon operator skills and not drone skills. Can also be found in mines and as like all drones can be destroyed by placed shots for flux grenades.
Type II 'Slave Type'
Slave Drones follow the owner once deployed and provide support automatically. They're a second hand. This was a well argued against type declariing that skillless players would just rack up free kills or free points. An unarmed drone is more appealing in this aspect if it was logistical based or recon based. These drones however make the profile of the player larger, may not keep up with the player, and many other short falls includeing being destroyed. Once destroyed the owner cannot deploy again without refreshing (dying) the equipment slot.
Type III 'Puppet Type'
Puppet drones are what they sound like, when deployed the player uses a remote to control them thus FPS from the drone's point of view. What functions they may have may have is wide ranged from just plain recon to remote missile to weaponized platform. This leaves the operator vunerable to being attacked during this time but this may encourage lame remoting attacking from red line to get targets that cant shoot him back. solutionizing would involve range limiting, and signature increasing the operator during this time also any drone that gets disconnected before returning to operator would be lost.
Type IV 'Sentinel Type'
Sentinel Type drones are MCC commander deployed drones and have various functions. They are similar to most MCC calldown items requires WPs to deploy and have to be build ahead of time even possibly outfitted. They are possibly the closest thing to a MCC commander avatar on the field and are by no means powerful, however sentinels are an active command component able to get the MCC pilot to assist his troops more directly with a unit able to keep up with forces instead of deploying turrets, crus, and supply depots or approving vehicle requests and oprtial strikes. However unlike the Puppet Drone the MCC command can only direct the location of the Drone and what mode its set in (passive/active)
Sentinels can come in many shapes and sizes and have limited room for defense and self repairs if its allowed fitting. They can be as large as HAVs.
and now the argument
So thats the possible types of drones we could expect. So now up for the arguments presented so far.
I'll continue to edit this list as you discuss this amongst yourselves. Feel free to pick up any of the mention angles below for your argument as well or take any one of the types above and explain why you think its a good or bad idea.
For
Cool Factor
Sci-fi universe with ground attack drones already, why not?
Further stresses limit slot fittings more making decision things to fit much more involved.
Increasing Options and tactical game play.
Rewards Thinking out of the box.
Creates a new function for certain weapons and fits such as AVs able to lock drones
Increases market item competition
Gives options to the Gallente and Amarrian Races for future options factional symetry between races.
Adds skill additional debt to prevent cappers from happening.
New weapon system with its own take of damage delivery with weaknesses and strengths.
Additional Isk Sink
Against
Encouarges cowardice
Does not reward skill in some cases
Free Points
Free Kills
AI Control bad for FPS 'competitive' shooters
Killstreak-itis (not that OBs and Calldowns are not already part of that)
AIs outperforming thier users
Ai or stats issued to the drones are not worth the slot costing. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
meh im against drones
kz2 anyone? lol when those bots were buffed they got more kills than the avg player and could snipe u across map with headshots
im ok with maybe a recon drone like a MAV or sum |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Think of the dps of a single drone in eve and tell me they'll be op
Fighters and bombers don't count |
Jotun Hiem
24
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
Honestly, I wouldn't mind a 'Slave Type' drone being implemented. The Killzone 3 medic had an ability similar to which you described and it never really struck me as unfair at all (And no, I didn't roll medic in KZ3. Tact/Marksman all the way). The drone hovers behind the medic and basically takes pot-shots at enemies and provides covering fire while the medic runs to revive somebody. The thing was just powerful enough to distract enemies from the medic or to send them into cover, the only way it'd kill you is if you sat there and let it shoot you.
Honestly, something like that would be a great addition to a triage set up. |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:10:00 -
[5] - Quote
Only one i could see as a potential problem is the puppet |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:meh im against drones
kz2 anyone? lol when those bots were buffed they got more kills than the avg player and could snipe u across map with headshots
im ok with maybe a recon drone like a MAV or sum
Not to question your reading ability but is that drones all together or the 'slave type' which is probably the closest to the kz2 ones. |
Heinz Doofenshertz
BetaMax.
360
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Drones are evil, and eat people. |
Fiasco Llana
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
251
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
I think there should be a type that has no weapons, but instead is loadout-based depending on what drop suit you pick.
Scout type: Is able to cloak itself or manually be cloaked whenever the player cloaks. has increased sensor awareness, and increases the amount of time the player can be cloaked. And maybe when you aim at a player, it puts your profile at 0 so people to not see the triangle above your head, only for the person you are aiming at (within like 1m of the person) making it great for counter-sniping.
Heavy: Senses incoming damage and moves into position to take the hit for you (such as a missile volley), decreases lock-on time for a vehicle you are aiming at. Increases reload speed slightly.
Assault: Increased detection of cloaked enemies if it is facing toward the enemy cloaked player, shoots out an electrical charge to zap enemy grenades thrown from far away (Not cooked grenades, or ones that have landed, only mid-air ones.) Marks any remote explosives say within 5m.
Logistics: Draws out a line with least enemy resistance to flank (without being absurdly long), Adds a certain amount of spawns to uplinks, adds a certain amount more of reloads from hives, decreases hacking times and virus upload times.
I don't know, just throwing ideas out there. |
Hawkings Greenback
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
25
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:32:00 -
[9] - Quote
STB Vermaak Doe wrote:Think of the dps of a single drone in eve and tell me they'll be op
Thats if they do as they are told & dont just wander off somewhere |
aden slayer
ZionTCD
Legacy Rising
407
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:38:00 -
[10] - Quote
I really hope we can hack drones and turn them against each other. |
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STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
aden slayer wrote:I really hope we can hack drones and turn them against each other.
I doubt it |
Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
For drones I think speculation is pointless as of the moment. Might as well wait till they come out and do some major stress tests on the buggers. Just my personal take on the matter. |
Necrodermis
GunFall Mobilization
Covert Intervention
460
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:52:00 -
[13] - Quote
i think drones should be left to drone boats in EVE.
having drones here just seems kind of redundant. why send mercenary clones to do a job if you can send drones to do the same job? |
STB Vermaak Doe
558
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Posted - 2012.09.24 06:53:00 -
[14] - Quote
Necrodermis wrote:i think drones should be left to drone boats in EVE.
having drones here just seems kind of redundant. why send mercenary clones to do a job if you can send drones to do the same job?
To get the job done better, duh |
Hawkings Greenback
D3ath D3alers
RISE of LEGION
25
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Posted - 2012.09.24 07:27:00 -
[15] - Quote
Drones should just be left to warfare, by that I mean shooting & other tasks ( EC-300's anyone  that however is another point) hacking objectives should be left to the mercs.
Maybe I havent read right have you thought about the amount of drones a merc can have ? I'm having a had time seeing CCP
let people have more than 1 drone unless it is suit specific & you have to give up a weapon slot for them.
Does anyone else thnk that drones should come from a spawn point i.e. like a Drone 'cloning/supply' unit, dropped or called in like everything else via the commander. Make it another asset to deploy on the field as oppose to mercs running round with AI drone 'buddies'. This may help with the whole drones being better than merc topic.
Just a couple of ideas, it is early for me
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Jarre Jardox
Cool Story But It Needs More EVE
30
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Posted - 2012.09.24 10:00:00 -
[16] - Quote
I don't think we will have any say in whether or not there will or wont be drones. In fact I believe a week or two ago someone posted a thread on new installations tht were on the market on either the buckingham or duality server; one of which was some sort of drone installation, not much info was given on it. Also in Templar One, a book describing the eve lore events leading up to DUST 514, there is a CreoDron "Rantula" antiarmor class drone tht would fit the description of a slave drone to a t. Its a six legged drone standing 2 meters tall with a 40mm cannon and its programmed to follow a squad and turn enemies into "chunky kibbles". It can evn climb walls. |
Encharrion
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
104
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:07:00 -
[17] - Quote
I think drones should be an equipment slot, you simply deploy them and if they are completely autonomous you switch back to your weapon and if they are remote controlled, say a recon drone, then you start controlling it, with the option of switching back and forth between your character and the drone by switching gear. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
Give my tank a drone bay |
Sees-Too-Much
332
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Posted - 2012.09.24 11:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
What about drone bays in vehicles? That could make things pretty interesting. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.24 12:11:00 -
[20] - Quote
Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar wrote:For drones I think speculation is pointless as of the moment. Might as well wait till they come out and do some major stress tests on the buggers. Just my personal take on the matter.
Not really speculation more of a formation of concensus of what people think of drones. |
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dent 308
Subdreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
967
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Posted - 2012.09.24 12:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Drones in eve are still fairly massive vessels.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Warrior_II The warrior II for example. One of the most commonly used light drones in eve.
Mass of 4000 kg, signature radius of 25 m.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Ogre_II One of the most popular heavy drones.
Mass of 12,000 kg, signature radius of 125m.
Orbiting your battleship they are tiny, but on a dust battlefield these things would be about LAV sized.
Ground war drones would have to be scaled down considerably.
Could be a very interesting addition to the game however.
A slowcat heavy squad could be a bizarre and fascinating thing to witness.
** Slowcats are a carrier group that spider tanks. The damage output comes from sentry drones that are all assigned to a target caller. Sentry drones don't move at all, but have pretty damn good range. Carriers barely move so they just sit with the drones.
The carrier pilots all do logi (fleet repair) work during the fight, while the FC and target caller co-ordintate the combined firepower of all the deployed sentry drones in the fleet.
Average carrier can deploy 9 sentry drones, (very) rough average of 500 dps.
20 carrier slowcat group = 10,000 dps
For the 49- final station timer defence we had a 100 carrier slowcat group repping the station.
This video has a great shot of that slowcat group in action.
http://youtu.be/SZywPsXPkEI
Also demonstrates spider tanking on a massive scale for those who have been asking about that recently.
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.09.24 13:34:00 -
[22] - Quote
Drones in eve can be any size though The smallest of them can insert themselves into your body and cause an unbelievable amounts of unplesantries. |
Fivetimes Infinity
Immobile Infantry
1086
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
I am so opposed to the idea of there being AI enemies, whether bought by a player or not, fighting in the "PvP" aspect of the game it isn't funny. I don't mind the ideas like the "puppet" one where a player directly controls a thing and is vulnerable while doing so, but fighting AI bad guys when you're supposed to be fighting other players is not fun. I hope they either omit drones entirely from the competitive multiplayer aspect of the game, or restrict them to only player-controlled with no automation to them. |
Nu11u5
Sanmatar Kelkoons
Minmatar Republic
73
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Posted - 2012.09.24 14:12:00 -
[24] - Quote
Tie them into a Drone Control Unit - a hackable installation on the map. Teams could have one or two (would work better in Conquest mode where the Commander selects which installations to deploy and where). If a team loses the Drone Control Units their drones deactivate.
That said, AI should be dumb - we are talking EVE Online "drones killed my corpmate then flew off in all directions bug" dumb. |
Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2012.09.24 21:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Kyromus Lyndis Kytaar wrote:For drones I think speculation is pointless as of the moment. Might as well wait till they come out and do some major stress tests on the buggers. Just my personal take on the matter. Not really speculation more of a formation of concensus of what people think of drones.
Uhm... That's basically speculation, lol. You can look at EVE drones to try and get an idea, but dust and eve are different. Plus they might not implement every type. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.09.26 13:41:00 -
[26] - Quote
Drones however have been persistently mentioned in ground combat nearly hundreds of times. Gallente over use them still for the mere fact they only have volunteer army and is probably the smallest military out of all empires. Also we already have some drones in the game already we just coviently place them into very small canisters and emitters.
Nano-hives
Nanite Injectors
Remote Armor Repairs |
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