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Sir Petersen Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:10:00 - [1] - Quote One thing that gets to me playing DUST is the fact that we get 25 points for an assist but 50 for a kill. You see.. I play aggressive and I never hesitate to save/help a teammate. For me it-¦s no problem to do whatever it takes for the team. Players jump behind me for cover (all the time) in this game and that-¦s OK. I don-¦t play scared. I-¦ll take one for the team and move on. What I don-¦t get is why I/we only get half the reward for something just as important as a kill. You build a team game but punish for positive team play. Saving someones a** does not only give my team a point and saving it from losing one at the same time but it also saves that person from re-spawning and the cost that goes with that. Add on top of that 50 points. Nice bonus that no? An assist gives 25 points and a messed up suit. This is not right. Thoughts?
ReGnUm ReSuRgAM WARRIORS 7	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:13:00 - [2] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: One thing that gets to me playing DUST is the fact that we get 25 points for an assist but 50 for a kill. You see.. I play aggressive and I never hesitate to save/help a teammate. For me it-¦s no problem to do whatever it takes for the team. Players jump behind me for cover (all the time) in this game and that-¦s OK. I don-¦t play scared. I-¦ll take one for the team and move on. What I don-¦t get is why I/we only get half the reward for something just as important as a kill. You build a team game but punish for positive team play. Saving someones a** does not only give my team a point and saving it from losing one at the same time but it also saves that person from re-spawning and the cost that goes with that. Add on top of that 50 points. Nice bonus that no? An assist gives 25 points and a messed up suit. This is not right. Thoughts? LOL LEARN HOW TO AIM and YOU WILL HAVE BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING THE KILL
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:15:00 - [3] - Quote I agree that assists should be equal to kills. It helps promote teamplay. I'd even go as far and say that assists should be counted towards the KDR.
Sir Petersen Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:15:00 - [4] - Quote ReGnUm ReSuRgAM WARRIORS wrote: Sir Petersen wrote: One thing that gets to me playing DUST is the fact that we get 25 points for an assist but 50 for a kill. You see.. I play aggressive and I never hesitate to save/help a teammate. For me it-¦s no problem to do whatever it takes for the team. Players jump behind me for cover (all the time) in this game and that-¦s OK. I don-¦t play scared. I-¦ll take one for the team and move on. What I don-¦t get is why I/we only get half the reward for something just as important as a kill. You build a team game but punish for positive team play. Saving someones a** does not only give my team a point and saving it from losing one at the same time but it also saves that person from re-spawning and the cost that goes with that. Add on top of that 50 points. Nice bonus that no? An assist gives 25 points and a messed up suit. This is not right. Thoughts? LOL LEARN HOW TO AIM and YOU WILL HAVE BETTER CHANCE OF GETTING THE KILL I know how to aim and getting better at it every day. I-¦m talking about assists. Easy to understand dude..
ReGnUm ReSuRgAM WARRIORS 7	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:21:00 - [5] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: I agree that assists should be equal to kills. It helps promote teamplay. I'd even go as far and say that assists should be counted towards the KDR. UNBELIEVABLE
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:27:00 - [6] - Quote While most games give a lower reward for an assist vs. a kill I can see what you're saying. There are numerous times that i bring an enemy down to a sliver of armor, then we both have to reload and a teammate snags my kill with the final bullet or two. I'm a team player so i don't really care, but it is slightly irritating when you've done all of the work and get half the reward. What would be really cool is a dynamic assist point reward system. Maybe multiple tiers for assist points depending on how much damage you did to the guy. The guy that places the final bullet still gets the kill in his stats and the 50pts, but the assisting fella that does 90% of the damage gets a higher reward than the standard 25. Or possibly an assist multiplier at the end of the battle. If you have a dozen assists you get awarded a bonus moreso than a guy with 5 assists. I don't know. Someone else can figure out the details, but the concept is there. I think it'd be a unique feature that i haven't seen in any games as of yet. Kills should definitely not = assists. A kill should always be more valuable than an assist, it's just the way it has to be to drive people to kill instead of wound the enemy and hide knowing your assist points are locked in and waiting for a teammate to finish the job, or get killed.I could see alot of that happening. I'm just saying give the assist guy something closer to 50 IF he did a ton of damage to the enemy. For the record, i'm usually a slayer. I always get my hands dirty. Just because someone jumps in after i've done all the damage doesn't suddenly mean i'm in a "support role". I'm the aggressor doing all the damage, i wouldn't mind a little recognition from the award system for that. I think a dynamic tiered system that weighs your contribution could work and keep both the slayers and the support guys happy.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:43:00 - [7] - Quote The thing is, if two people work together and bring down an enemy, one gets arbitrary treated like he didn't contribute as much as the other one, determined by the last bullet that hits the enemy. That doesn't make sense. In a hacking situation, it is the one who was first to start hacking, that's something one can get behind, but kill assists are just as valuable as the kill itself, especially if you work as a team. It doesn't matter if the two of you stand side by side, or if one is a sniper at the back.
SYST3M 0V3RL0AD Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.09.21 22:52:00 - [8] - Quote Tarn Adari wrote: The thing is, if two people work together and bring down an enemy, one gets arbitrary treated like he didn't contribute as much as the other one, determined by the last bullet that hits the enemy. That doesn't make sense. In a hacking situation, it is the one who was first to start hacking, that's something one can get behind, but kill assists are just as valuable as the kill itself, especially if you work as a team. It doesn't matter if the two of you stand side by side, or if one is a sniper at the back. Right, but you aren't factoring in what repercussions an equal kill/assist system would have. For instance. I see a familiar player in a heavy suit with an HMG. I know he's a strong player and me and my 2 teammates are about to try to take him down. Three of us jump out at him and i pop a few shots in and then run and hide. One of my teammates gets taken down and the other gets severely injured but pulls off the kill. Should i be equally rewarded for being a coward just because i did a little damage when one of my teammates died and lost a suit and the other got the kill but took a lot of damage and may die soon thereafter? I don't think that's very fair at all. It won't encourage people to stick in there and fight it out. It'll actually encourage the opposite of teamwork. It has to be specifically based on amount of damage done with a kill still receiving the biggest reward for it to work.
Fiasco Llana Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic 251	Posted - 2012.09.21 23:23:00 - [9] - Quote SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: Tarn Adari wrote: The thing is, if two people work together and bring down an enemy, one gets arbitrary treated like he didn't contribute as much as the other one, determined by the last bullet that hits the enemy. That doesn't make sense. In a hacking situation, it is the one who was first to start hacking, that's something one can get behind, but kill assists are just as valuable as the kill itself, especially if you work as a team. It doesn't matter if the two of you stand side by side, or if one is a sniper at the back. Right, but you aren't factoring in what repercussions an equal kill/assist system would have. For instance. I see a familiar player in a heavy suit with an HMG. I know he's a strong player and me and my 2 teammates are about to try to take him down. Three of us jump out at him and i pop a few shots in and then run and hide. One of my teammates gets taken down and the other gets severely injured but pulls off the kill. Should i be equally rewarded for being a coward just because i did a little damage when one of my teammates died and lost a suit and the other got the kill but took a lot of damage and may die soon thereafter? I don't think that's very fair at all. It won't encourage people to stick in there and fight it out. It'll actually encourage the opposite of teamwork. It has to be specifically based on amount of damage done with a kill still receiving the biggest reward for it to work. I think assist should be based on the amount of damage you do. Player who dealt the most damage gets 75, player who did the second most damage gets 50, and whoever helped a lesser amount gets 25. I think that would be pretty fair.
Ranger SnakeBlood 38	Posted - 2012.09.21 23:25:00 - [10] - Quote SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: Tarn Adari wrote: The thing is, if two people work together and bring down an enemy, one gets arbitrary treated like he didn't contribute as much as the other one, determined by the last bullet that hits the enemy. That doesn't make sense. In a hacking situation, it is the one who was first to start hacking, that's something one can get behind, but kill assists are just as valuable as the kill itself, especially if you work as a team. It doesn't matter if the two of you stand side by side, or if one is a sniper at the back. Right, but you aren't factoring in what repercussions an equal kill/assist system would have. For instance. I see a familiar player in a heavy suit with an HMG. I know he's a strong player and me and my 2 teammates are about to try to take him down. Three of us jump out at him and i pop a few shots in and then run and hide. One of my teammates gets taken down and the other gets severely injured but pulls off the kill. Should i be equally rewarded for being a coward just because i did a little damage when one of my teammates died and lost a suit and the other got the kill but took a lot of damage and may die soon thereafter? I don't think that's very fair at all. It won't encourage people to stick in there and fight it out. It'll actually encourage the opposite of teamwork. It has to be specifically based on amount of damage done with a kill still receiving the biggest reward for it to work. I understand where your coming from but i also have a alternate view as i used to mainly play as a as much as i hate the term kill ***** basicly yes thats it, i found that if i was being part of a team all it ment is suddenly there is more chance of my kill been stolen so i used to avoid helping team mate kill due to this now i started using logi while i do still find it difficult to keep myself inline being a productive member of a team from going off to hunt down some prey to down. I find that if assist were rewarded as a kill it would actualy promote team work in a strenght in numbers type of feeling without the whole if i go with these lot ill get mabye 2 or 3 kills where as if i head of on my own i could get 5 or 6, It is also a system very like the system in eve as if a ship that is quick gets in and stop the enemy from escaping and waits for a large dps ship to get there and pop it is the little ship any less part of the kill that the large dps one? If a very efficient 4 man squad excells at dispatching enemies if it gets a kill then why would one person get a kill while in kdr terms the rest get screwed for doing around the same amount of input, in realistic terms and in terms on commoradery they will see it as a team effort they will think they killed that enemy but often the kdr on score screen will not refect that and this may lead to some fustration among team mates i remeber some of the best times in bad company 2 i had was with a 4 man squad we worked together like a single unit and in the interest of working together we ignored the kill and assist thing but i think if it was done in this way then working together will be better for moral even with randoms

Goat of Dover Shadow Company HQ 161	Posted - 2012.09.21 23:42:00 - [11] - Quote There is a assist system like this already out in BF3. I believe that is the way that it works if you do 85 percent of the kill then you get 85% of the points for the kill. While the person who got the actual killing blow gets 100% of the kill point value. Along with savior and other rewards sometimes getting the assist can be worth more than the kill. This is a great system that does promote team play very well since BF3 is a very team oriented game. Also for the sake of many fps gamers CCP has taken the liberty and posted the KDR at the end of the match for main stream fps player. This in term though does produce a negative effect on a game that is meant to be played as a team not as a lone wolf.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.22 00:22:00 - [12] - Quote Maybe instead of kills being worth a flat 50 points and assists worth a flat 25, make every kill worth 100 and divy the 100 up amongst who did the damage by percent, with a cap of 50 points per person. Thus a sniper killing a guy gets 50, but two assaults doing approximately equal damage to a victim get 50 apiece. Three assaults in the same situation get 34 apiece. Two assaults supporting an HMG heavy who did 60% of the damage himself will see 20 points to each assault and 50 to the heavy. Or keep it how it is. Whatever.
Grenwal Hiesenberg Shadow Company HQ 226	Posted - 2012.09.22 00:36:00 - [13] - Quote What happens when your kill escapes both of you only to be killed when his shields reach 95% when he is halfway across the map? Most of the shielding and armor have been replenished. Should either of you get any points or just the third man who achieved the kill? Don't get me wrong, I get more assists than kills usually so i really like this idea. I own BF3 but haven't played in a long while due to the fact that none of my "friends" were interested in purchasing it or failed at working as a team. I think this would be a great addition to not only gameplay but stats as well.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.22 01:15:00 - [14] - Quote Oh, another thing, why does anyone but the driver in a vehicle get a vehicle kill assist? The driver, be it of HAV, LAV, or DS, plays a vital role in their gunner getting kills so it's only natural the driver gets part of the reward. But why does the other gunner get anything? Why does a passenger? I say **** those guys. Kill assist for driver only! If you can't get your own turret kills, stay the crap out of my dropship!
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.22 03:32:00 - [15] - Quote He's just trolling, dude. Don't feed the troll.
Sir Petersen Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2012.09.22 07:41:00 - [16] - Quote SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: Right, but you aren't factoring in what repercussions an equal kill/assist system would have. For instance. I see a familiar player in a heavy suit with an HMG. I know he's a strong player and me and my 2 teammates are about to try to take him down. Three of us jump out at him and i pop a few shots in and then run and hide. This is already happening. People are jumping behind me for cover all the time hoping for me to take the heat while trying to get the last bullet hit for 50 points. People are already running and hiding. Yesterday I had a game where I scored around 20.000 exp points. At the end of the game I had one kill and I-¦m guessing I had close to 10 assists. Why doesn-¦t this show at the end of the match? Why am I ranked at the bottom of the table when I was a big part in bringing home the win? This is not right. Why am I being punished for positive teamwork in a team game?
Gcember Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 123	Posted - 2012.09.22 09:17:00 - [17] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: One thing that gets to me playing DUST is the fact that we get 25 points for an assist but 50 for a kill. You see.. I play aggressive and I never hesitate to save/help a teammate. For me it-¦s no problem to do whatever it takes for the team. Players jump behind me for cover (all the time) in this game and that-¦s OK. I don-¦t play scared. I-¦ll take one for the team and move on. What I don-¦t get is why I/we only get half the reward for something just as important as a kill. You build a team game but punish for positive team play. Saving someones a** does not only give my team a point and saving it from losing one at the same time but it also saves that person from re-spawning and the cost that goes with that. Add on top of that 50 points. Nice bonus that no? An assist gives 25 points and a messed up suit. This is not right. Thoughts? The assist should be the damage that you inflict on the enmy, for example, an enemy has a 100 health points, you inflict 60 points of damage and the other guy who shoots and gets the kill gets 50+ points but as you inflicted 60 helath points of damage you should get 60 points. I hope you understand what I am trying to say here.
VipeR Jr Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 1	Posted - 2012.09.22 09:51:00 - [18] - Quote Or maybe whoever did the most damage gets the kill? I dunno.
Baldy bonce Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 1	Posted - 2012.09.22 10:01:00 - [19] - Quote could use system like in w.o.t. the final/killing shot does not give most points, as its based on damage done. but in w.o.t. your hit points do not recover over time, prob make it tricky to implement in dust.
Drake Lyons Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 209	Posted - 2012.09.22 11:13:00 - [20] - Quote I will roll up in a missile tank. And I will steal your kills.

carl von oppenheimer Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 158	Posted - 2012.09.22 11:27:00 - [21] - Quote I would agree that a shared points from a kill would be more appropriate then the current system, we can obviously keep the scoring as it is now for the vehicles but grunts would benefit from a more equal assist system.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Legacy Rising 404	Posted - 2012.09.22 14:03:00 - [22] - Quote +25 seems pretty good as it is. I figure as often as I steal the other guy's kill he steals mine. Also, we're not actively spending our warpoints right now, but wasn't it the case that we were going to have to spend warpoints to call down vehicles, etc.? Has something changed? And it sounds like CCP is going to re-shuffle the ranking boards to highlight warpoints, so our glorious non-kill contributions will be up in bright lights for all to see. The only stats I really want to see on a character are %age match wins and %age contribution to team/squad warpoints.
Loss Tovas ZionTCD Legacy Rising 236	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:32:00 - [23] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: SYST3M 0V3RL0AD wrote: Right, but you aren't factoring in what repercussions an equal kill/assist system would have. For instance. I see a familiar player in a heavy suit with an HMG. I know he's a strong player and me and my 2 teammates are about to try to take him down. Three of us jump out at him and i pop a few shots in and then run and hide. This is already happening. People are jumping behind me for cover all the time hoping for me to take the heat while trying to get the last bullet hit for 50 points. People are already running and hiding. Yesterday I had a game where I scored around 20.000 exp points. At the end of the game I had one kill and I-¦m guessing I had close to 10 assists. Why doesn-¦t this show at the end of the match? Why am I ranked at the bottom of the table when I was a big part in bringing home the win? This is not right. Why am I being punished for positive teamwork in a team game? @ System: I agree with what you say. I know yesterday if it wasn't for you calling them out and getting the kill-ball rolling I wouldn't have been at the top of the leaderboard. There is no reason, IMO, that you don't get just as rewarded if not more than I because anyone can shoot but I can't do what I did and have the same levels of situational awareness that you were ensuring we had. @ Petersen: Beyond a shadow of a doubt this is already happening. I play hella aggressive and more times than not I find myself at the tip of the spear with everyone else running away or just letting me go out there first to soften them up. I see no harm in assists even effecting KDR or creating a helper stat of some kind. Point is the game itself needs to goad players into playing the gaming as intended... and I don't imagine giant roaming mobs or stationary blobs of enemies is the intention. ETA: Vrain Matari wrote: The only stats I really want to see on a character are %age match wins and %age contribution to team/squad warpoints. THIS! This is what I would like to see leaderboards centered around.
Sir Petersen Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:36:00 - [24] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: +25 seems pretty good as it is. Yeah dude... Really fair to get 25 points and a damaged suit as a reward for saving someones live and your team losing points. Give that same person on top of that 50 points and some ISK depending on how expensive each life costs. Common...
Swufy Gnomenclatur Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:47:00 - [25] - Quote I actually don't mind the current system. It's only really an issue because KDR is displayed on the leaderboards at the end, not warpoint contribution. The guy running around hacking all the points to actually win the game, but gets no kills, gets shuttled to the bottom of the list even though they were the main reason the team one. KDR should be displayed at end of Ambush, Warpoints at end of Skirmish. Though, I am fond of that tiered assist system mentioned ^_^.
Azmode Deamus Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 28	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:48:00 - [26] - Quote World of Tanks had a decent XP system. You didn't get XP for killing anything - or you got a minimal amount. You got XP for damaging a target. That way if you knocked down someone to 1% HP, and some teamate kills that tank for the rest - you'd get the majiority of the XP. Also in that game you got XP based on the amount of damage you did. That way you'd get more XP by killing a high tier heavy tank with a lot of HP, rather than that lonely scout that you can one shot. I think Dust should be sort of like that.
Tarn Adari Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 157	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:49:00 - [27] - Quote I'd even say, reduce the reward for kills. Make it 15WP for a kill, 15WP for an assist (25/25 if a squad member is near) and instead add a substantial SP bonus for the winning team...
sendeth KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 45	Posted - 2012.09.22 15:58:00 - [28] - Quote Sir Petersen wrote: One thing that gets to me playing DUST is the fact that we get 25 points for an assist but 50 for a kill. You see.. I play aggressive and I never hesitate to save/help a teammate. For me it-¦s no problem to do whatever it takes for the team. Players jump behind me for cover (all the time) in this game and that-¦s OK. I don-¦t play scared. I-¦ll take one for the team and move on. What I don-¦t get is why I/we only get half the reward for something just as important as a kill. You build a team game but punish for positive team play. Saving someones a** does not only give my team a point and saving it from losing one at the same time but it also saves that person from re-spawning and the cost that goes with that. Add on top of that 50 points. Nice bonus that no? An assist gives 25 points and a messed up suit. This is not right. Thoughts? i don't think the 25 points for an assist is unfair. i do think that there should be a category in the final battle tally for assists and points earned. if you see a guy who has40 assists and 2 kills, you know that without him the guy with 20+ kills would not have had the. of course i think it should go into way more detail similar to how unreal 2004 did on the xbox. at the end of a battle it had stats and percentages on which body part you hit, hit percentages per weapon, and so on. it was a full page of stats. and in games such as battlefield, when i play, i am often number one on the team but have fewer kills. thats because i am a TEAM PLAYER and will not hesitate to die to save a team mate or protect an armed objective. i am like a very fast scout guardian angel on the battlefield. the main source of my kills are from saving other people. i also think it's cool of you to use yourself as cover. i do that also, but being in a scout suit i don't take a lot of hits. typically if i see a team mate about to die i will run in front of them and across the enemys field of view to draw fire. works well a lot. or i will find a heavy and tag along scouting the immediate area for him. when i run into someone i fall back to him. then they come around the corner to kill the weak little scout and run into a heavy. by then i usually run around and flank the enemy while he is fighting the heavy. and if the heavy dies i always have a nanite injector. i make people play as a team and they don't even know it.
sendeth KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 45	Posted - 2012.09.22 16:00:00 - [29] - Quote Azmode Deamus wrote: World of Tanks had a decent XP system. You didn't get XP for killing anything - or you got a minimal amount. You got XP for damaging a target. That way if you knocked down someone to 1% HP, and some teamate kills that tank for the rest - you'd get the majiority of the XP. Also in that game you got XP based on the amount of damage you did. That way you'd get more XP by killing a high tier heavy tank with a lot of HP, rather than that lonely scout that you can one shot. I think Dust should be sort of like that. don't underestimate scouts. i don't know how many times i have run full speed and jumped off of a building clearing 50'+ and ninja'd someone in the head. like speedy gonzales with an smg.
Sir Petersen Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 112	Posted - 2012.09.23 10:04:00 - [30] - Quote sendeth wrote: Azmode Deamus wrote: World of Tanks had a decent XP system. You didn't get XP for killing anything - or you got a minimal amount. You got XP for damaging a target. That way if you knocked down someone to 1% HP, and some teamate kills that tank for the rest - you'd get the majiority of the XP. Also in that game you got XP based on the amount of damage you did. That way you'd get more XP by killing a high tier heavy tank with a lot of HP, rather than that lonely scout that you can one shot. I think Dust should be sort of like that. don't underestimate scouts. i don't know how many times i have run full speed and jumped off of a building clearing 50'+ and ninja'd someone in the head. like speedy gonzales with an smg. Same here bro. Quality scouts are essential in a strong team. But those guys will not shine in this game until they get the rewards they deserve. 25 points and a damaged dropsuit is simply not enough for assisting your teammates over and over again.



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