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Alhanna Ridgeway
123
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Posted - 2012.09.15 15:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
Ok, most people should know by now Im a tank driver. Was proud to be one until yesterday. Since yesterday I have to ask if the people at CCP got Viva Pinata developers to come balance tanks. I feel like Im shooting candy at people, trying to kill people with love and kindness. I didn't think this game was based off Whimsyshire, but it seems to be now, when it comes to tank at least. I think I saw a rainbow shoot out of my turret last night, and little flashes of flowers coming from my gunners.
Since when were tanks not supposed to be feared on a battlefield? Now last night I took one of my other characters that I had started as sniper, so no swarm skills, just sniper skills, and got into a battle which had 2 tanks. I put 1 swarm into the tank, dropped about 1/4 of his shield and all his armor in 1 swarm. 1 SWARM. I can't stress that enough. I blew up a 200.000 isk tank with a ******* free suit with no skills.
Now I see people on here all the time talking about risk vs. reward, but it seems no one wants that to apply to tanks. That tank driver that is running around getting 20+ kills a match just spent probably 10x more isk than you did for your little assault suit. So shouldn't his reward be 10x more than yours, he's fielding the bigger risk. But I forgot everyone wants to play COD 514. How bout we just nerf all the weapons, and everyone can run around and punch each other, no kills, just knockouts. We could rename the game to Fight Night 514.
Balancing a tank was a simple matter of dropping the railgun back a tad and increasing the damage on swarms and forge guns. Not doing that and cutting our resistance. I don't care what anyone thinks that doesn't drive a tank, they made it useless. I got a 1.4M dollar paperweight that I refuse to field because a free suit with no investment can kill me if he just gets up high enough.
The best counter for a vehicle should be another vehicle, not AV. AV should be there as a deterrent to help hold a position, not the end all be all tank killer. Which if another tank is on the field, I personally stop worrying about ground troops, and start worrying about the other vehicle, cause ultimately that's my role, to kill other vehicles as a tank.
Now, Ive said tanks were a little strong before the patch and needed a little tweaking, not nerfed into the ******* ground. And I understand squad support, however last night most people couldn't squad up and randoms don't pay attention to what's going on 90% of the damn time. So ya Im done "testing" (as you call it, I call it giving away free isk) tanks until they do some semblance of balance.
Once again 120,000 isk shouldn't be able to take out 1.4M or more alone. You should be required to come at me with at least 1.4M dollars worth of AV suits. If you can get 1.4M in a suit, then by all means we should be able to have a decent fight going toe to toe. If you're in anything less that 1.4M it shouldn't even be a competition. The term obliterated comes to mind.
And as far as adapting, what you want me to adapt on my tank (armor), I can't stack resistance as effectively, you can't run more than 1 good repper and 1 good armor plate combo, My medium slots are useless cause there is nothing to go in them except a damage control (nerfed as well) which I have one. They don't have specific damage types, swarms hit armor harder, and forge guns hit shields harder, I can't specialize my resistance. So there is no adapting, unless you mean speed in which case I have to give up armor hp on an armor tank, so that doesn't work either. Don't say adapt, if it was all about adapting there should have been no whining in the first place about tanks, because all the assault tards would have adapted to better handle tanks. Oh wait COD 514 it's all about assault and screw everyone else, assault shouldn't have to adapt, they get to be the powerhouses. My bad I apologize for forgetting that.
Let the flaming begin......Have a good day. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:03:00 -
[2] - Quote
You seem to act like tanks were the only ones effected by the drop in resistance.
We're getting active shield and armor hardeners soon, which will allow you to use SKILL to amplify your resists in time to tank a volley or two as you move for cover.
They're turning dials, just play the game and keep providing feedback. |
Obama DAT
Doomheim
389
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:04:00 -
[3] - Quote
Improvise, Adapt, Overcome Space Marine! |
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.09.15 15:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
DUST Fiend wrote:You seem to act like tanks were the only ones effected by the drop in resistance.
We're getting active shield and armor hardeners soon, which will allow you to use SKILL to amplify your resists in time to tank a volley or two as you move for cover.
They're turning dials, just play the game and keep providing feedback. Then we also get Webifier grenades. Good luck trying to get away when you can't move. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Instead of getting away, I would probably flip on my shield / armor hardeners and relay the positions of our attackers to my gunners, while focusing on killing any nearby threats and absorbing any incoming hits while still webbed. After that, we'd make a break for cover and call out enemy swarms and forges to the rest of the team. |
Alhanna Ridgeway
123
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Posted - 2012.09.15 15:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
That calling out positions and having your team kill them sounds good in theory, but I don't know how many times Ive seen assault people just not kill AV people, how hard is it to kill a guy with a swarm launcher, he can't hit you with the swarm, but apparently the assault guys Ive seen can't hit the AV guy. Amazingly bad aiming in this community.
Second an active repper is gonna have a cooldown. So I take the first salvo or two then it cuts off for 30 seconds, in that time there will be enough other salvos coming in to kill me. Especially since we're paper thin. Oh and turning on a module isn't skill. It's R2 and a direction. Timing isn't skill.
And if you are running for cover every couple seconds there is no point in fielding a tank. Tanks are supposed to be in the middle of a fight, providing moving cover for infantry etc. Not running from every Militia fit AV on the field. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:20:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:That calling out positions and having your team kill them sounds good in theory, but I don't know how many times Ive seen assault people just not kill AV people, how hard is it to kill a guy with a swarm launcher, he can't hit you with the swarm, but apparently the assault guys Ive seen can't hit the AV guy. Amazing bad aiming in this community.
Second an active repper is gonna have a cooldown. So I take the first salvo or two then it cuts off for 30 seconds, in that time there will be enough other salvos coming in to kill me. Especially since we're paper thin. Oh and turning on a module isn't skill. It's R2 and a direction. Timing isn't skill.
It's a hell of a lot more skill than having a HUGE passive buffer, that is about as NON skill oriented as it gets. Trust me, you'll always be kitten drivers to me. I'm a dropship pilot, I know annoying controls and "skill" needed to operate them. If you're out in the open where you're getting hammered by that many swarms, it's your LACK of skill and coordination getting you caught in an area where you do NOT want to engage. You shouldn't be off running around on your own, you should be advancing with your teammates so they can provide you cover, and you can provide them support.
Active Hardeners will allow you to mitigate bad situations if you manage your cooldowns well and remain conscious of your terrain. Some maps aren't good maps to call in tanks, just like some maps aren't good to call in dropships. That all comes down to player skill, knowing what tool is best used when. |
Alhanna Ridgeway
123
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Posted - 2012.09.15 15:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
I admit, I shouldn't get caught alone by 4 or 5 swarm launcher guys, but the issue right now isn't 4 or 5. It's 1 or 2. And everyone has a different definition of what constitutes skill. Turning on an Active Hardener isn't skill to me, it's moving the controller.
If you want truly skillful players. Put Cap in the game from Eve. I miss Capacitor, managing your cap was skill. If everyone wants to talk about skill and think they got Leet Skills, bring in capacitor and we'll see how well everyone does. |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:
If you want truly skillful players. Put Cap in the game from Eve. I miss Capacitor, managing your cap was skill. If everyone wants to talk about skill and think they got Leet Skills, bring in capacitor and we'll see how well everyone does.
Oh I couldn't agree more, and it still puzzles me as to why they removed it. Here's hoping it gets back in, would LOVE to have a dropship with energy vampires |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:That calling out positions and having your team kill them sounds good in theory, but I don't know how many times Ive seen assault people just not kill AV people, how hard is it to kill a guy with a swarm launcher, he can't hit you with the swarm, but apparently the assault guys Ive seen can't hit the AV guy. Amazingly bad aiming in this community.
your totally right, till this recent fix I hated tanks so much that even when they were on my team i'd leave AV troops alone so they could kill off the P.O.S now they are free game cause tanks aren't invincible, wasn't a matter of can't kill them, we just hated you that much |
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Drako Death
22
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Posted - 2012.09.15 15:48:00 -
[11] - Quote
Last build I ran a full proto tank and it was an active. There is a cool down on the shield reper but I learnt how to use it by running for cover while it was on. I could handle a few volleys of forge and swarm but new when it was tame to take a breather and repair. In this build a lot of the maps are wide open so a fall back is tough. I think last build between tank and AV it was a decent balance, I never ran around thinking I was god but felt safe to run with the team I was with and assist with grabbing letters and defending letters and getting into tank fights which was a blast, this build not so much. I hope CCP will create a propper balance next build because this one has been a a tough one on both ends! |
Beld Errmon
Tal-Romon Legion Amarr Empire
479
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 15:52:00 -
[12] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:I admit, I shouldn't get caught alone by 4 or 5 swarm launcher guys, but the issue right now isn't 4 or 5.
You'd like that wouldn't you, most of you coward tankers would, all you need to do is drop 2 tanks and more then 2/3rds of the enemy team needs to be in AV before there's a chance they could destroy one of you, and mean while the other 10 players not counting the 4 that is in your tanks gets easy kills with ARs on forge and swarm launcher troops.
Long story short if you wanna play WoT, you don't even need a playstation.
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Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 16:13:00 -
[13] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:I admit, I shouldn't get caught alone by 4 or 5 swarm launcher guys, but the issue right now isn't 4 or 5. It's 1 or 2. And everyone has a different definition of what constitutes skill. Turning on an Active Hardener isn't skill to me, it's moving the controller.
If you want truly skillful players. Put Cap in the game from Eve. I miss Capacitor, managing your cap was skill. If everyone wants to talk about skill and think they got Leet Skills, bring in capacitor and we'll see how well everyone does.
id like to see caps in the game tbh and asap rather than these half assed nerfs and buffs |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 16:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
The turrets needed roles, the turrets needed tuned down, and the terrain needed fixed. If anything they needed a touch MORE health. This don't touch turrets but make them paper helps no one. |
Cinder Integ
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
23
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Posted - 2012.09.15 16:33:00 -
[15] - Quote
Heavy Assault Vehicle... Drive up to any enemy, jump out, assault them. You just Won. |
Ragna Soul
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 17:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
i find it funny that every tank driver is so pissed that now theyre tanks arent gods and that AV weapons were brought back to power. now they arent going to be good as before because they been so used to insta killing everyone and now they cant shoot a freakking AR because it doesnt insta kill everyone |
pew pew youredead
What The French
98
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 17:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:
Now I see people on here all the time talking about risk vs. reward, but it seems no one wants that to apply to tanks. That tank driver that is running around getting 20+ kills a match just spent probably 10x more isk than you did for your little assault suit. So shouldn't his reward be 10x more than yours, he's fielding the bigger risk..
funny you talk about risk and reward like that when tanks cannot be killed by the more common footsoldiers back then when you drive in a tank and no-one can shoot you down, there's no risk.... now you got no rewards
what about the risk infantry face when tanks are fielded? a 1OO times more risk than you rolling in your little tank maybe? so the rewards should be higher than you in your tank get
but i consider the nerf as our reward
but don't worry those sp invested in tanks will be deleted next char wipe so don't be too sad about it |
Smoke2Bowls
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
93
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 18:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
Since when are tanks supposed to run from people instead of the opposite? |
Stzy514
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 18:43:00 -
[19] - Quote
Separate driving from shooting in tanks - so driver can't shoot - unless they change positions. |
Alhanna Ridgeway
123
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 18:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tanks are supposed to run from people since everyone wants to feel like they are the best thing to happen to an FPS since sliced bread. Once someone dies to something they call for a nerf. Nerf tanks I can't kill them 1v1, regardless of the fact he's a tank and Im a damn foot soldier, his tank cost 1.4M isk and Im running around in about a 75k dropsuit......I should be able to go toe to toe with anything and everything. I see it already, MCC gonna get nerfed when people can't shoot it down with an Assault Rifle... Waaahhh my AR doesn't kill the MCC NERF IT. I can't hold down the trigger and just spray bullets and kill it, NERF IT.
Everyone wants the game to be COD, then go play COD. It ain't that I want to play WOT, I want there to be more diversity than everyone running around with a ******* AR. I have no problems using an AR, but that isn't what I want to play anymore.
And as for Beld Failman or whatever, it's a ******* tank. It's not a pony, it's not a stuffed animal, it's a mutherfucking tank. 1v1 a ground troop should always lose to the ******* tank, want to know why? Cause it's a ******* tank you dumbshit. It should take 4 or 5 people to tank out a ******* tank. That's the only way you're fielding as much ISK as I am. It'll take 4 well geared guys to make 1.4M worth of dropsuits. If ISK doesn't directly relate to base power then make everything ******* free. Tanks are supposed to be feared on a battlefield, not the other way around. You realize common foot soldiers need less training than Tank Driver or a Pilot in RL right, same goes in DUST. I have more skills to train than an Assault guy. Assault Suits. Assault Rifle Operation, Assault Rifle Proficiency and you're good. Anything else is extra. Tanks have to train Vehicle Command to 1, which should be 5 for a tank, whatever 12X HAV Skill they want, and no less than 4 armor or shield skills depending on which tank they choose. And once again one of those is a 12X skill. The highest you have to train for assault is what 8x for the suit...whooopdie doo..
****** players want to act like tank drivers are whiny bitches, that need to adapt and overcome and all that ****, well personally, I see it as the other way around. Whatever they don't like they cry NERF instead of doing what they tell everyone else to do. Bunch of double standards around here I see. **** if everyone has to play the same damn way with no vehicles dropships different type of ground troops, just give everyone a damn peashooter and let us go at it.
And **** no, don't seperate driving from shooting, my 1.4M dollar tank isn't a Limosine, and I don't trust anyone else to guard my damn tank correctly but me. I didn't spend 1.4M to escort bunny hopping retards around.
Im done discussing this at this point. I feel like Im talking with a bunch of whiny brat kids bound for the special olympics. |
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Ragna Soul
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
90
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 19:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:Tanks are supposed to run from people since everyone wants to feel like they are the best thing to happen to an FPS since sliced bread. Once someone dies to something they call for a nerf. Nerf tanks I can't kill them 1v1, regardless of the fact he's a tank and Im a damn foot soldier, his tank cost 1.4M isk and Im running around in about a 75k dropsuit......I should be able to go toe to toe with anything and everything. I see it already, MCC gonna get nerfed when people can't shoot it down with an Assault Rifle... Waaahhh my AR doesn't kill the MCC NERF IT. I can't hold down the trigger and just spray bullets and kill it, NERF IT.
Everyone wants the game to be COD, then go play COD. It ain't that I want to play WOT, I want there to be more diversity than everyone running around with a ******* AR. I have no problems using an AR, but that isn't what I want to play anymore.
And as for Beld Failman or whatever, it's a ******* tank. It's not a pony, it's not a stuffed animal, it's a mutherfucking tank. 1v1 a ground troop should always lose to the ******* tank, want to know why? Cause it's a ******* tank you dumbshit. It should take 4 or 5 people to tank out a ******* tank. That's the only way you're fielding as much ISK as I am. It'll take 4 well geared guys to make 1.4M worth of dropsuits. If ISK doesn't directly relate to base power then make everything ******* free. Tanks are supposed to be feared on a battlefield, not the other way around. You realize common foot soldiers need less training than Tank Driver or a Pilot in RL right, same goes in DUST. I have more skills to train than an Assault guy. Assault Suits. Assault Rifle Operation, Assault Rifle Proficiency and you're good. Anything else is extra. Tanks have to train Vehicle Command to 1, which should be 5 for a tank, whatever 12X HAV Skill they want, and no less than 4 armor or shield skills depending on which tank they choose. And once again one of those is a 12X skill. The highest you have to train for assault is what 8x for the suit...whooopdie doo..
****** players want to act like tank drivers are whiny bitches, that need to adapt and overcome and all that ****, well personally, I see it as the other way around. Whatever they don't like they cry NERF instead of doing what they tell everyone else to do. Bunch of double standards around here I see. **** if everyone has to play the same damn way with no vehicles dropships different type of ground troops, just give everyone a damn peashooter and let us go at it.
And **** no, don't seperate driving from shooting, my 1.4M dollar tank isn't a Limosine, and I don't trust anyone else to guard my damn tank correctly but me. I didn't spend 1.4M to escort bunny hopping retards around.
Im done discussing this at this point. I feel like Im talking with a bunch of whiny brat kids bound for the special olympics. hehe QQ man its just a game if u cant adapt then whats the point of playing your not a gamer if you cant adapt |
Paran Tadec
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
902
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 19:32:00 -
[22] - Quote
Alhanna Ridgeway wrote:Tanks are supposed to run from people since everyone wants to feel like they are the best thing to happen to an FPS since sliced bread. Once someone dies to something they call for a nerf. Nerf tanks I can't kill them 1v1, regardless of the fact he's a tank and Im a damn foot soldier, his tank cost 1.4M isk and Im running around in about a 75k dropsuit......I should be able to go toe to toe with anything and everything. I see it already, MCC gonna get nerfed when people can't shoot it down with an Assault Rifle... Waaahhh my AR doesn't kill the MCC NERF IT. I can't hold down the trigger and just spray bullets and kill it, NERF IT.
Everyone wants the game to be COD, then go play COD. It ain't that I want to play WOT, I want there to be more diversity than everyone running around with a ******* AR. I have no problems using an AR, but that isn't what I want to play anymore.
And as for Beld Failman or whatever, it's a ******* tank. It's not a pony, it's not a stuffed animal, it's a mutherfucking tank. 1v1 a ground troop should always lose to the ******* tank, want to know why? Cause it's a ******* tank you dumbshit. It should take 4 or 5 people to tank out a ******* tank. That's the only way you're fielding as much ISK as I am. It'll take 4 well geared guys to make 1.4M worth of dropsuits. If ISK doesn't directly relate to base power then make everything ******* free. Tanks are supposed to be feared on a battlefield, not the other way around. You realize common foot soldiers need less training than Tank Driver or a Pilot in RL right, same goes in DUST. I have more skills to train than an Assault guy. Assault Suits. Assault Rifle Operation, Assault Rifle Proficiency and you're good. Anything else is extra. Tanks have to train Vehicle Command to 1, which should be 5 for a tank, whatever 12X HAV Skill they want, and no less than 4 armor or shield skills depending on which tank they choose. And once again one of those is a 12X skill. The highest you have to train for assault is what 8x for the suit...whooopdie doo..
****** players want to act like tank drivers are whiny bitches, that need to adapt and overcome and all that ****, well personally, I see it as the other way around. Whatever they don't like they cry NERF instead of doing what they tell everyone else to do. Bunch of double standards around here I see. **** if everyone has to play the same damn way with no vehicles dropships different type of ground troops, just give everyone a damn peashooter and let us go at it.
And **** no, don't seperate driving from shooting, my 1.4M dollar tank isn't a Limosine, and I don't trust anyone else to guard my damn tank correctly but me. I didn't spend 1.4M to escort bunny hopping retards around.
Im done discussing this at this point. I feel like Im talking with a bunch of whiny brat kids bound for the special olympics.
They cant say we Tankers are bitchin and moanin, its the same **** they've been posting for what, 3 months? NERF WHA WHA |
Daedra Lord9
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 19:34:00 -
[23] - Quote
People talk about tanks like they're supposed to dominate infantry. Do you people even understand that the role of a modern tank is infantry support, coupled with anti-armor duty? Tanks can easily be disabled, sometimes even destroyed by a lone infantryman with an RPG, let alone several. Tanks are very vulnerable to the weapons designed to destroy them, and damn near invincible against anything else. The same goes for the infantry they support. Funnily enough, it takes two seperate skillsets to effectively combat either one. Also funny, is the fact that they're extremely effective when working together... |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 19:57:00 -
[24] - Quote
Daedra Lord9 wrote:People talk about tanks like they're supposed to dominate infantry. Do you people even understand that the role of a modern tank is infantry support, coupled with anti-armor duty? Tanks can easily be disabled, sometimes even destroyed by a lone infantryman with an RPG, let alone several. Tanks are very vulnerable to the weapons designed to destroy them, and damn near invincible against anything else. The same goes for the infantry they support. Funnily enough, it takes two seperate skillsets to effectively combat either one. Also funny, is the fact that they're extremely effective when working together...
Yea, and tanks don't need to worry about precision strike anti tank missiles either right now |
Chihiro Itto
66
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 20:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
Daedra Lord9 wrote:People talk about tanks like they're supposed to dominate infantry. Do you people even understand that the role of a modern tank is infantry support, coupled with anti-armor duty? Tanks can easily be disabled, sometimes even destroyed by a lone infantryman with an RPG, let alone several. Tanks are very vulnerable to the weapons designed to destroy them, and damn near invincible against anything else. The same goes for the infantry they support. Funnily enough, it takes two seperate skillsets to effectively combat either one. Also funny, is the fact that they're extremely effective when working together...
+1
Tanks, as with any other role in Dust, should be powerful when part of an effective team, not just rolling around solo. I'm fairly neutral as far as the OP/nerf arguments go (although I gave up any attempt at an AV role in frustration some time ago), but to ignore this is to ignore one of the main elements of Dust 514. HAVs should be threatening in many situations, but in others they should be a sitting duck. Ranging across the map at speed with no infantry support should be one of those situations.
Having said that, the strong nerf put on tanks does seem a little trollish by CCP, but it may well change again in the next few weeks so AV can enjoy themselves for a while (if anyone is brave enough to roll around in HAVs in a cavalier fashion) until the next re-balancing occurs. Putting the tanks back to where they were but introducing AV proximity mines would shake things up all over again. Watch and wait. |
Daedra Lord9
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
136
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 20:05:00 -
[26] - Quote
Damn I wish they did though. That's always my favorite role in these kind of games. Was actually ranked first in the world in BF3 for jet kills for a while, but since I took a break for a couple months, I got knocked down. I'm still in the top 0% (sounds like a stupid way to do it, but top 0% is good) on bf3stats. Soon as we get jets, those tanks are dead. |
Paradox-Raider
Talon Company Mercs
54
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 20:22:00 -
[27] - Quote
Tanks easy prey if they are alone. If they have gunners, it's much harder, especially if they can shoot. But if a tank has a bad driver, who wanders away from their infantry, and stops in stupid places, I laugh as I drive away from its burning wreck. Yes, soloing tanks is very easy when you are rocking a 190k AV fit against a pilot who doesnt see you coming, but it is also very easy way to counter my attack. Not that I'm telling. One crew figured it out this morning, they managed 30 kills between them and are the only tank that has survived a game against me today.
Tanks are a little underpowered, but they are not as useless as people make out, they stand a fighting chance, just most crews haven't figured it out yet.
I will say no more... |
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