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Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 09:45:00 -
[1] - Quote
DUST is peh as a shooter right now but the economic framework is there, so can we at least make it more informative? A profit/deficit calculations after each match would be nice, showing how much we spent to how much we made. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
^ agree +1 would be really nice to have especially for the casual players who might not realise they need to scale back gear a bit if they are in the red before its too late |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have?
Calculators stopped being fancy forever ago. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:28:00 -
[5] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have?
u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process. |
4447
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
649
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 11:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
if the ISK is going up then i'm making money. |
Kengfa
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. |
Ire's thug
GunFall Mobilization Covert Intervention
272
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:07:00 -
[8] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process.
Pandering to simple people is a bad idea. Your reasoning is that most people are bad at math so why bother? I want a game to reward me for doing my reasearch and calculating my risks. So yeah if casuals dont want to take time to manage their money (which btw has to be done in every mmo ive played to vairing degrees) then to bad for them! Get smart or get dead. |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****.
Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"? |
Kengfa
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"?
Those aren`t even nearly as complicated dumbshit. Some math that takes 3 seconds to do, and is probably faster than using the calculator, or wiring a ******* marketplace. At least it would get players like you to **** off at least, and for what god damn reason are you constantly using bold? It makes it a ***** to read, and nobody cares about what the garbage you are saying is. |
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Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kengfa wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"? Those aren`t even nearly as complicated dumbshit. Some math that takes 3 seconds to do, and is probably faster than using the calculator, or wiring a ******* marketplace. At least it would get players like you to **** off at least, and for what god damn reason are you constantly using bold? It makes it a ***** to read, and nobody cares about what the garbage you are saying is.
Art thou mad, bro?
Give me one good reason why not to add it. Go on. And don't give me the "to keep the casuals out" superiority chestbeating either, because withholding simplicity to portray complexity is ******* stupid. |
Sees-Too-Much
332
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:57:00 -
[12] - Quote
Supposedly one of the new end-match stats coming in the next build is "isk efficiency". That should cover what OP wants.
Oh, and bolded text exists to call attention to particular words. Using it on an entire paragraph makes no sense. |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 12:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Oh, and bolded text exists to call attention to particular words. Using it on an entire paragraph makes no sense.
Here in the UK, we call attention to all our words. And also, ISK efficiency is just what I was saying. Thanks. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 13:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ire's thug wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process. Pandering to simple people is a bad idea. Your reasoning is that most people are bad at math so why bother? I want a game to reward me for doing my reasearch and calculating my risks. So yeah if casuals dont want to take time to manage their money (which btw has to be done in every mmo ive played to vairing degrees) then to bad for them! Get smart or get dead.
smh this community will kill this game before it even has a chance to strive missed the part where i said ppl play games for fun and not to be crunching a bunch of numbers in a FPS its not a problem for me or for u but im not concerned about me or u im concerned about the BROADER audience....u know the ppl CCP trying to attract to play their game whether u want to believe it or not
Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"?
this. dunno why ppl automatically ASSUME when ppl make a suggestion they talkin about themselves unlike the MAJORITY of this community who have little to no console fps experience others are also trying to help this game so CCP can reach their target audience which to contrary belief isnt the few hardcore peeps that congregate console shooters/games but i do believe CCP said they want to attract a broader audience and for this game to be deemed successful u will need casuals, same way the majority of EVE are carebears and live in hisec DUST will need those same casuals populating the game to thrive
so before ppl start to get on that high horse think a bit of the broader audience and stop thinkin of yourselves so much. |
Mavado V Noriega
SyNergy Gaming
2283
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 13:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sees-Too-Much wrote:Supposedly one of the new end-match stats coming in the next build is "isk efficiency". That should cover what OP wants.
Oh, and bolded text exists to call attention to particular words. Using it on an entire paragraph makes no sense.
if that is true then good wish CCP would put up patch notes on the new build already tbh |
dent 308
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
967
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 13:21:00 -
[16] - Quote
Welcome to Eve Online, here is your rubix cube, go **** yourself.
I wouldn't still be playing Eve if they simplified it. I am hopeful they can do the same with Dust.
edit : There have been lots of games that looked promising, then got simplified and finger ****** to death. Don't let the stupid / dense / lazy set the bar. |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:08:00 -
[17] - Quote
Hey calm down there.
I for one play Dust to have FUN, and have about an hour or two to do so. Of all things, I don't want to play this with a calculator, pen and paper sitting next to me. I just want an at-a-glance, basic feedback of what's happening to my character.
As calculating expense vs. profit is one of the basics of this game, it would be ideal that a basic indicator of profits/losses be included in the battle results screen GÇö it's mostly a question of user interface design and playability. Then I can choose to not waste time and perform basic decisions based on my read. |
Kengfa
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:28:00 -
[18] - Quote
Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"? Those aren`t even nearly as complicated dumbshit. Some math that takes 3 seconds to do, and is probably faster than using the calculator, or wiring a ******* marketplace. At least it would get players like you to **** off at least, and for what god damn reason are you constantly using bold? It makes it a ***** to read, and nobody cares about what the garbage you are saying is. Art thou mad, bro?
Give me one good reason why not to add it. Go on. And don't give me the "to keep the casuals out" superiority chestbeating either, because withholding simplicity to portray complexity is ******* stupid.
Waste of time making it when they could add something useful in, rather than something some whiny bitches want in the game because they like CoD style games where no thinking is involved, rather than play something new.
|
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Kengfa wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Kengfa wrote:So, you're saying you need assistance doing a subtraction? Just figure it out before the damn game. Your fitting costs you 30k, you have about 7 deaths before you start losing money. Just an estimation around average fitting price.
Your tank costs you 700k, if it lasts less than 4 games, you lost profit.
Took me 3 seconds to do that. Now try with your own ****. Who said I need assistance? It's called "streamlining" and making the process more efficient as per the point of a Beta phase. It will at least make balancing the books and demonstrating why you should be doing so more of a priority to the casuals as much as it makes it efficient at a glance.
If you want to do everything the hard way and like to **** on any idea, how about we make you wire up that big-ass marketplace in your hab when you first start for the sake of "doing it yourself"? Those aren`t even nearly as complicated dumbshit. Some math that takes 3 seconds to do, and is probably faster than using the calculator, or wiring a ******* marketplace. At least it would get players like you to **** off at least, and for what god damn reason are you constantly using bold? It makes it a ***** to read, and nobody cares about what the garbage you are saying is. Art thou mad, bro?
Give me one good reason why not to add it. Go on. And don't give me the "to keep the casuals out" superiority chestbeating either, because withholding simplicity to portray complexity is ******* stupid. Waste of time making it when they could add something useful in, rather than something some whiny bitches want in the game because they like CoD style games where no thinking is involved, rather than play something new.
You do know the calculation is already there right? and it just needs showing? Dry your eyes, this would all be easier than it appears to you. Don't fret. We're here. |
Kengfa
138
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:35:00 -
[20] - Quote
No, moron it isn't. it would require adding in a new page, putting the numbers on the screen, and then adding some other details so people don't whine about having a page solely to look a subtraction that they could have done quicker than the calculator in their heads. |
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Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kengfa wrote: No, moron it isn't. it would require adding in a new page, putting the numbers on the screen, and then adding some other details so people don't whine about having a page solely to look a subtraction that they could have done quicker than the calculator in their heads.
Yes moron, it is. And no, it doesn't. It requires a number in green or red, or with a plus or minus, or whatever differentiation you prefer, to be underneath your end-game ISK showing what the profit or deficit was. It's that simple.
So feel free to take your vaginal hernia to another thread. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
393
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:00:00 -
[22] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process.
IMO, the draw for casual players will have nothing to do with "simple" economics or not doing math or anything related to the meta game...
It is my belief that the draw for casual players will be arena matches. As CCP's David Reid likes to say, people who want to jump in for 30 minutes and shoot and blow stuff up, they can do that in Dust 514. Even if they do have some sort of advanced match making system, people are still going to have to build fits (or use starter fits I guess) and enter into NPC contracts and battles, at least from what I gather so far.
By having arena matches from the start, new/casual players can jump into an "All Militia" arena battle and play A) team death match (multiple lives) B) team death match (round based / single life) C) Capture the flag D) king of the hill E) attack & defend
This way, you still 100% fulfill the new or casual player needs and can still create this great seeded universe will null sec and fraction warfare, all with New Eden and well within the lore. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process.
I think most people old enough to have their own bank account can do calculations like that in their head. If you think basic general subtraction in your head is too difficult, then those kinds of people should not be playing this game. Sorry, but CCP isn't going to add a "Think For Me" button to the game. I mean hell, there is more thought involved in making a fitting for a suit, should we have the game just make loadouts for us as not to hassle "casual" players with that math too? |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process. I think most people old enough to have their own bank account can do calculations like that in their head. If you think basic general subtraction in your head is too difficult, then those kinds of people should not be playing this game. Sorry, but CCP isn't going to add a "Think For Me" button to the game.
So why is your gained ISK shown at the end of the game and not a straight transaction in to your account? Simplicity does not have to be dumbed down, jesus. |
Constable Jones
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
22
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:11:00 -
[25] - Quote
Phantomnom wrote:Sees-Too-Much wrote:Oh, and bolded text exists to call attention to particular words. Using it on an entire paragraph makes no sense. Here in the UK, we call attention to all our words. And also, ISK efficiency is just what I was saying. Thanks.
Really? Because personally I find that to communicate like a true brit requires a combination of subtly and understatement. Constructing sentences to have multiple meanings wherever possible and maintaining proper decorum until more emphasis is required.
Brevity is, as they say, the soul of wit.
As to your original point. I see no good reason why there couldn't be something of that ilk in the game. Good idea. |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Constable Jones wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Sees-Too-Much wrote:Oh, and bolded text exists to call attention to particular words. Using it on an entire paragraph makes no sense. Here in the UK, we call attention to all our words. And also, ISK efficiency is just what I was saying. Thanks. Really? Because personally I find that to communicate like a true brit requires a combination of subtly and understatement. Constructing sentences to have multiple meanings wherever possible and maintaining proper decorum until more emphasis is required. Brevity is, as they say, the soul of wit.
Loud noises work too. Tally ho! |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:18:00 -
[27] - Quote
Phantomnom wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Mavado V Noriega wrote:Pokey Dravon wrote:Isn't knowing how to manage your expenses and income without a fancy readout kind of a general real-life skill that everyone should have? u think most casuals play games to be doing maths? while i can do quick calculations and others can as well most dont wanna do that u forget the whole point of gaming is that it should be fun? dont make **** unnecessarily difficult for the casuals, simplify the process. I think most people old enough to have their own bank account can do calculations like that in their head. If you think basic general subtraction in your head is too difficult, then those kinds of people should not be playing this game. Sorry, but CCP isn't going to add a "Think For Me" button to the game. So why is your gained ISK shown at the end of the game and not a straight transaction in to your account? Simplicity does not have to be dumbed down, jesus.
Because when you get a paycheck it tells you how much you're getting paid? It doesn't include how much you spent on gas to get to work or the expense of buying lunch. For that you go look at your bank statement which shows a list of dated entries of money going in and out of your account. Granted that latter bit isn't in DUST yet but it will be as its a big part of the EVE system.
In addition, because prices will fluctuate with the free market, the exact cost of what you lost will constantly be changing. When it calculates your losses is it at the price you bought it at? Or the current prices? Current prices for your region, or a universal regional average? Maybe you used 15 of something but only 10 are available at the lowest price, which price do you use? What about salvaged items that you found and didn't buy? Calculating an exact cost is going to be impossible because the "economy" is stupidly dumbed down right now and not connected to the EVE system yet. Would your idea work now? Sure, but as soon as prices hit the open market, it would be impossible. |
Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:25:00 -
[28] - Quote
Calculate what you paid for and what you made. It works even if prices fluctuate. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 15:28:00 -
[29] - Quote
Phantomnom wrote:Calculate what you paid for and what you made. It works even if prices fluctuate.
So you want the server to record the purchase price of every individual item you purchased? |
Nate Silverley
Rebelles A Quebec
139
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Calculate what you paid for and what you made. It works even if prices fluctuate. So you want the server to record the purchase price of every individual item you purchased?
I guess the easy way to achieve what Phantom means is to have battle results display a red indicator showing total value lost during the game. Logically, it's already being tracked so it shouldn't be a problem for devs...simple means to allow everyone to enjoy a quick feel for the economic realities of this game, really. |
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Phantomnom
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
505
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:Phantomnom wrote:Calculate what you paid for and what you made. It works even if prices fluctuate. So you want the server to record the purchase price of every individual item you purchased?
It's recorded from the marketplace purchase, so i'm -assuming- it would just be a case of having that data accessible and loaded at the end-game screen to do the calculation.
Edit : infact no, it's just a case of keeping a numerical representation of your stock and fits accessible, something that is already run. |
Vane KoS
Royal Uhlans Amarr Empire
30
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:17:00 -
[32] - Quote
4447 wrote:if the ISK is going up then i'm making money.
this, really its not that complicated. Just watch one number - wallett balance. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 17:24:00 -
[33] - Quote
Vane KoS wrote:4447 wrote:if the ISK is going up then i'm making money. this, really its not that complicated. Just watch one number - wallett balance.
OMG WE CANT HAVE THAT! TOO MUCH THINKING!
EDIT: Actually, doesn't the end battle screen give you a wallet total? If so, then really nothing needs changing at all. |
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