DUST Search - Proposed Dropship Changes

Sees-Too-Much wrote:

This

General Rian wrote:

All of my drop ships are using 1 High Slot for a mobile spawner, because without one the dropship isn't really all that viable.

Is the opposite of true. Randoms are a liability. Come to "0k0d", it's a channel in-game for dropship pilots and gunners. Having a regular gunner that you're on comms with is extremely important, especially when you're new to flying.

General Rian wrote:

And as far as it getting stuck on it's side, a solution to an obvious design flaw should not be "not letting it tip over in the first place". The flight mechanics for the ship are already difficult enough as it is, and the majority of the terrain in the game is sloped/covered in structures/buildings/etc. You shouldn't be forced to lose a dropship that *isn't actively being attacked by enemies* because it decided to lay over for a nap. Like I said, the ability to put the ship back on its bottom should not be quick. Enemies actively attacking a ship on its side should be able to kill said ship.

I know it seems random and unavoidable at first, but when you get used to flying you'll find that keeping control of the dropship is well within your power.

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General Rian Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.09.07 01:52:00 - [1] - Quote The current Dropship mechanics are absolutely horrid and far less than ideal. Let's list a few that with proposed changes (with included logic behind it) shall we? 1. Gunner's hitting the dropship and jostling it: How is this even a current issue? A dropship is the only thing currently in the game that suffers greatly from "friendly fire". While it doesn't do actual damage to the ship, it does result in the ship rocking to one side or the other. A stupid gunner can quickly mess up your ship's position, force you to compensate for each jostle, or even send you plummeting into the ground/buildings if it's done enough times in a row. Either remove the gunner's ability to hit the ship, or simply eliminate any effect it has on your ship completely. 2. Landing at any speed faster than a snail's pace doing heavy damage: The dropship is, from what I can tell, intended for quick insertion/evacuation of troops on the ground. The problem is that it's nearly impossible right now to insert/evac troops in any sort of quick manner (minus them bailing out of the ship and falling). Why is it almost impossible? The absolutely horrid mechanic in place that determines the damage it receives from touching anything. Don't get me wrong; I don't want collision damage removed if your ship crashes into anything that isn't the ground. I want that to stay. If you're stupid enough to run into a building, you deserve the damage you receive. What I am wanting is the ability to quickly (within reason) put a Dropship on the ground without it taking massive amounts of damage in doing so. 3. The amount of jostling resulting from an impact from missiles/projectiles/etc: It is absolutely ridiculous that the majority of my dropship losses have resulted in the ship plummeting sideways/upside-down into the ground after a group of swarm launcher missiles have impacted into the ship. It makes absolute sense to severely reduce the amount of movement cased by said impacts. A ship like this should most certainly have a system in place to compensate for imminent impacts, e.g., jets that apply thrust on the opposite side of the incoming ordinance. You could even go as far as meeting me in the middle and only making certain things do reduced jostling. For example, railguns (which use rounds that hit almost instantly) could do far more because the ship is unable to react to the incoming round like it would missiles. The way it stands, even an amazingly well tanked dropship can be killed by an unlucky jostle which renders any skills/modules obsolete. And it appears as though damage received from collisions doesn't take resistances amps/damage controls into consideration when applying the damage... so once again, modules/skills mean diddly when it comes to an unlucky j 4. An unreliable way to recover from your dropship being on its side on the ground/the ease at which you can put one on its side: It is absolutely frustrating to either call in a dropship, or land one on the ground and have it end up on its side with almost no way to put it up on its bottom. The only real way to fix it currently is hope you're on a hill and try to ram it with a HAV/LAV and knock it onto its bottom. Obviously whatever fixes it shouldn't be quick. But if I'm nowhere near an enemy, there should be some sort of mechanic in place for the ship to either slowly fix itself or allow a player outside of the ship to fix it. That way someone can recover if they aren't being pressured by enemies, but it also allows opportunists to take advantage of an enemy ship that's on its side while it slowly shifts back onto its bottom.
Skihids Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising 969	Posted - 2012.09.07 02:00:00 - [2] - Quote I understand that the enemy fire upset is being toned down in the next build. Not sure about the friendly fire, but educating gunners helps a bit. The devs have promissed to beef up the landing gear in the next build, so I expect we will be able to plant the ship rather than have to float it in. I think the current fragileness was a deliberate nerf for all the infantry squashing that went on in the last build. Dropships were used as bumper cars and that was very annoying. The best solution for righting your ship is to not tip it over in the first place. Don't call it in on heavily sloping terrain and limit lateral movement when you put it down
General Rian Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.09.07 02:21:00 - [3] - Quote Skihids wrote: I understand that the enemy fire upset is being toned down in the next build. Not sure about the friendly fire, but educating gunners helps a bit. The devs have promissed to beef up the landing gear in the next build, so I expect we will be able to plant the ship rather than have to float it in. I think the current fragileness was a deliberate nerf for all the infantry squashing that went on in the last build. Dropships were used as bumper cars and that was very annoying. The best solution for righting your ship is to not tip it over in the first place. Don't call it in on heavily sloping terrain and limit lateral movement when you put it down Educating gunners only works if you limit your dropship to only people you can talk to/know... and that only works if you can keep them in the gunner's seats the whole time. All of my drop ships are using 1 High Slot for a mobile spawner, because without one the dropship isn't really all that viable. From what I understand, the dropship was (in the last build) allowed as a BPO for the militia one. People had limitless amounts of them to throws away and they didn't really take any damage from the environment in the event of a collision. That being said, you have to pay for them now so every one you loose is pretty expensive. It's also absolutely viable in a ground vehicle to run over enemies to kill them. Why would allowing dropships to do the same be bad? It's already easy enough as it is to take out an enemy dropship that ventures too close to the ground for too long... especially with tanks being more and more prevalent in games. It's also very easy to hide from an incoming dropship and stop it from being able to run into you. And as far as it getting stuck on it's side, a solution to an obvious design flaw should not be "not letting it tip over in the first place". The flight mechanics for the ship are already difficult enough as it is, and the majority of the terrain in the game is sloped/covered in structures/buildings/etc. You shouldn't be forced to lose a dropship that isn't actively being attacked by enemies because it decided to lay over for a nap. Like I said, the ability to put the ship back on its bottom should not be quick. Enemies actively attacking a ship on its side should be able to kill said ship.
Sees-Too-Much 332	Posted - 2012.09.07 02:34:00 - [4] - Quote This General Rian wrote: All of my drop ships are using 1 High Slot for a mobile spawner, because without one the dropship isn't really all that viable. Is the opposite of true. Randoms are a liability. Come to "0k0d", it's a channel in-game for dropship pilots and gunners. Having a regular gunner that you're on comms with is extremely important, especially when you're new to flying. General Rian wrote: And as far as it getting stuck on it's side, a solution to an obvious design flaw should not be "not letting it tip over in the first place". The flight mechanics for the ship are already difficult enough as it is, and the majority of the terrain in the game is sloped/covered in structures/buildings/etc. You shouldn't be forced to lose a dropship that isn't actively being attacked by enemies because it decided to lay over for a nap. Like I said, the ability to put the ship back on its bottom should not be quick. Enemies actively attacking a ship on its side should be able to kill said ship. I know it seems random and unavoidable at first, but when you get used to flying you'll find that keeping control of the dropship is well within your power.
General Rian Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.09.07 02:42:00 - [5] - Quote Sees-Too-Much wrote: This General Rian wrote: All of my drop ships are using 1 High Slot for a mobile spawner, because without one the dropship isn't really all that viable. Is the opposite of true. Randoms are a liability. Come to "0k0d", it's a channel in-game for dropship pilots and gunners. Having a regular gunner that you're on comms with is extremely important, especially when you're new to flying. General Rian wrote: And as far as it getting stuck on it's side, a solution to an obvious design flaw should not be "not letting it tip over in the first place". The flight mechanics for the ship are already difficult enough as it is, and the majority of the terrain in the game is sloped/covered in structures/buildings/etc. You shouldn't be forced to lose a dropship that isn't actively being attacked by enemies because it decided to lay over for a nap. Like I said, the ability to put the ship back on its bottom should not be quick. Enemies actively attacking a ship on its side should be able to kill said ship. I know it seems random and unavoidable at first, but when you get used to flying you'll find that keeping control of the dropship is well within your power. Oh, I definitely agree that randoms are a liability. The majority of the time I fly, I have a buddy of mine (that's sitting in the same room with me) gunning for me. The issue surfaces when he either gets shot out of the ship, or he's not playing. A mobile spawner in the ship also makes it an amazing asset for troop insertion into areas. I understand that playing with people you know/forming corps are ideal, but randoms can still spawn into your ship if you have the mobile spawner in it... randoms you have no control over, but have to sometimes deal with to get the amazing benefit of having that spawner in your ship. Plain and simple (especially in the future), no one in their right mind would design a ship intentionally that allows a gunner to easily hit it and cause it to do what it does... And seeing as we're forced to use only one (apparently flawed) type of dropship, this really should be fixed. As far as putting the ship on its side goes, it's an incredibly rare occurrence. I am an excellent pilot that knows how to properly maneuver the ship. But things happen. I need to do an emergency landing on un-ideal terrain... I call in a dropship on only slightly slanted terrain, and it still manages to slowly roll onto its side... My point is that I shouldn't be forced to lose a 400k isk ship because it somehow ended up on its side.
wathak 514 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 106	Posted - 2012.09.07 04:20:00 - [6] - Quote Ever tried pressing l2 inorder to flip it back everytime mine rolls on its side i press l2 an being as it wants to decend from the reversed thrust it had flipped back
General Rian Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2012.09.07 18:33:00 - [7] - Quote wathak 514 wrote: Ever tried pressing l2 inorder to flip it back everytime mine rolls on its side i press l2 an being as it wants to decend from the reversed thrust it had flipped back I've tried various combinations of different buttons the 3 times I've had it flipped on its side... none of them seemed to reliably flip it back onto its bottom. The only time I've ever managed to fix it is ramming it with a LAV and hoping it shoves it over. Like I've said, it makes zero sense for a futuristic hover ship to be completely incapacitated because it has rolled onto it's side with no way of fixing it. That would be a major design flaw for a ship that is intended to constantly be touching and going onto the ground...
Patches The Hyena 204	Posted - 2012.09.07 19:47:00 - [8] - Quote Devs have promised dropship love in the next patches/build. We've mentioned all these problems to them in IRC, they should all be addressed, and many more, as time goes on.


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