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Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
417
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Posted - 2012.08.15 16:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
tl;dr CCP is targeting the wrong group of players and should make UVT's an item that you install into the chat channels themselves to allow voice chat within the channel rather than making them a per-player item.
We're well on our way to our first, real Dust threadnaught. Not one of those silly ones about mouse and keyboard support that was obviously coming. The thing about the UVT threadnaught is that the conversation actually doesn't match the issues at hand. Here are the problems, and a solution that should satisfy all parties.
There are two parties that have problems with the voice chat service: CCP and the players.
CCP's Problems:
(1) We cannot provide quality voice service to everyone in the game with projected usage if cross-game voice chat is an unrestricted service.
(2) We will provide quality voice service to players who are in-game with each other, which represents a monetary investment in infrastructure for such and we will provide this to all customers- including those who never give us any money.
Players' Problems:
(1) We want to be able to participate in the metagame at any time through voice chat, most especially when we are not playing a battle scenario.
(2) Our player organizations want easy-to-handle ways to voice chat with all of our members outside of game so that everyone can feel involved in the social experience of Dust.
CCP's Current Solution: The UVT which applies only to players.
There's a very obvious reason why this isn't the solution to CCP's problems. It's not that a pay gate is a ridiculous idea. In fact, it makes perfect sense so that CCP can continue to maintain a quality voice service out of game. The implementation of this pay gate in its current form is unwieldy, and there's a very simple reason why that is.
In a free to play game, there are two types of players: Players who are willing to spend money, and those who are reluctant or unwilling. I don't have any backing psychological study to back this one, but I feel pretty safe saying it. Those who are very willing to spend money are a lot of the people already playing the beta religiously: they are dedicated players. The thing is, the most dedicated players already have no problem using TeamSpeak3, Ventrilo, Skype, or any of a huge number of existing VoIP options. In terms of voice services, they are already paying or if they're not paying they're at least satisfied with the current option set.
The class of players who aren't already using VoIP on their computers is the class of players who are already reluctant to monetize Dust 514. This is the problem. As a corporate manager, I have zero desire and less than zero right to go every single one of my corp mates and say: "Hey dude, I don't know how often you play, but you need to pay about $54/year just so that we can organize things out of battle." It just won't happen. The price point is absurd, and the entire concept is rotten. There is a huge group of players who are more casual than the class of players who will willingly fork over money. They only play a few times a week, or else they only get to play for a short time each day. They will not pay no matter what the price. Additionally, that class of players typically doesn't want to download TeamSpeak.
Here's the decision-making for a corporation's dedicated player base:
(a) We can all pay for UVT's at a huge price per year and per person and have only the dedicated player base available for chat because of the monetization scheme.
(b) We can all chip in for TS3 at a much much cheaper price per person and only the dedicated player base will be available for chat.
Which one would you choose?
All the current UVT scheme is doing is removing more casual players from open communications and forcing the dedicated players onto TS. That's all it will ever do. Do you think Eve players mind logging onto TS instead of Eve Voice? They'd probably prefer TS in the first place. Nobody will ever buy the UVT, and a large number of players will simply never get to chat with their mates except in-game or in-squad.
There's an easy, obvious solution. If I can think of it within 24 hours of having seen the original concept, this has to be obvious to CCP.
SOLUTION
The UVT should be an item which can be installed into a chat channel to make it voice-enabled. Anyone with access to the channel can use voice in a UVT-enabled channel.
There are a few technical things to consider. CCP would want to require a maximum number of simultaneous voice chatters per channel for everything except corporate and alliance chats. They would also want to allow the "owner" of a chat channel to remove participants from the chat. The pricing of the UVT still needs to come down. TS provides a much better price point for a 24/7 server with lots of clients than does a cost of $54/year for a single channel.
What does this change do? It shifts the cost from the casual players to the people who are willing to monetize. Those are dedicated corp leaders and players who want to open up the metagame for everyone. It also involves new players in the conversation directly from their PS3's, and in that way it's worth a lot more to Dust players than TS is. It gives option:
(c) Pay for a UVT channel so that everyone can always chat out of game.
It still puts a pay gate on the chat, so that people don't use Dust as the F2P chat service. It also puts CCP's price point more in-line with reality. Nobody is going to pay $540 for 100 people to be able to constantly chat for a year. In short...it actually works. |
Maximus Stryker
Villore Sec Ops
Gallente Federation
393
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Posted - 2012.08.15 17:05:00 -
[2] - Quote
interesting post.
I think paying for UVT is an OK premise, my issue like many others have is price.
It is my understanding that you will be able to speak when you group up and thus be able to speak with people outside of a game just like in MAG and many other games. The group size is currently 4 but that will likely grow to a much larger number.
The UVT will allow corps and alliances to communicate to a much broader number of people and to players in EVE.
I do not play a larger variety of games or FPS games but I can not think of one that allows very large numbers of players to speak and communicate on the scale we are looking at in Dust514. |
Iceyburnz
316
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Posted - 2012.08.15 17:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
Excellent solution.
The whole voice idea is flawed simply because the sort of dedicated player who would use it is exactly the kind of person who will find a way around paying with a 3rd party service.
Its sort of like trying to charge car owners an extra 100% to use the bus. All it does is encourage them to continue to use their cars. |
Gauder Berwyck
Deadly Blue Dots
RISE of LEGION
217
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
*sigh* The problem of writing something logical, people can't argue against it and thus the topic dies in the torrents of QQ and kittens.
What I guess I'm trying to say is *bump* |
EnIgMa99
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
219
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:34:00 -
[5] - Quote
it doesnt promote community, it would suck if this game die out before it ever got big |
Etero Narciss
Seraphim Initiative.
CRONOS.
112
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
I am posting. This is because I think this is a good idea and would encourage me to actually invest in the damn things.
A good read. You get a like and a bump from me. |
EnglishSnake
Zumari Force Projection
Caldari State
1012
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Posted - 2012.08.15 18:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
I play EVE, i use TS3
I play DUST, i use a mic, a one time payment for the UVT i wont mind, but using anything else like TS3 is no from me simply because i lag more with a PC on and im not willing to do it
Voice chat using the PS3 is the only viable option for me |
Iceyburnz
316
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
EnglishSnake wrote:I play EVE, i use TS3
I play DUST, i use a mic, a one time payment for the UVT i wont mind, but using anything else like TS3 is no from me simply because i lag more with a PC on and im not willing to do it
I think I would rather pay a yearly competitive rate (compared to other external third party providers) for the UVT service. But I still like the orginal channel service idea. Seems more corporate and in keeping with the eve milieu. |
Vaas Edi
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:06:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.08.15 19:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
I really do not understand the issue. i think it was a smart idea on CCP's part.
It is a de-marketing method so that only people who will actually use it, have it. Less trolling and wasted network resources on those who dont care about it.
Besides the fact that most of us use TS anyway and have no use for the product anyway, it is only for extra comm channels. We get chat in and out of match in the Squad comms, and optional team comms in match. |
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Chao Wolf
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
209
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Posted - 2012.08.15 20:06:00 -
[11] - Quote
Making the uvt an item the channel creator uses to activate voice comms for everyone in the channel is a great idea and if that's the case I could see the price increasing bit and still sell more then with the current setup |
Avenger 245
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
477
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Posted - 2012.08.15 20:19:00 -
[12] - Quote
Great idea |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 20:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
The issue, Sam, is that I'll never be able to attend a corp meeting where all the members who want to attend can attend unless they pay AUR. I don't care if it's 1AUR. Some people won't be willing to pay. That means I'll never have the full group of people available to engage in the social aspect of Eve and Dust. Noobies will never feel nearly as involved because they won't aant to pay either. TS is great, but it's ridiculous for me to ask people to get on TS when they applied for a console gaming organization.
All the current UVT system does is guarantee that nobody will EVER pay for Dust comms and that the community will be more fractured than otherwise. It's a lose for CCP, it's a lose for the players, and it's a lose for Dust. |
Kev Crow
Bragian Order
Amarr Empire
24
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Posted - 2012.08.16 00:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
Very good idea +1 |
Ayures0
259
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Posted - 2012.08.16 00:52:00 -
[15] - Quote
Do you really even need voice chat when you're not playing a match? I'm not going to bother with UVT. I have no problem with using a keyboard to bullshit with people. The only time I use a mic in games is when I'm actually playing. I don't care about talking in lobbies or whatever. |
Leither Yiltron
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
417
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 05:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
That's the point. People won't pay for the UVT in its current form. The suggested solution is much more elegant. |
Devil Biff
Imperfects
Negative-Feedback
55
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 06:00:00 -
[17] - Quote
There r many good points here. My partners and I used the text chat channel from the ps3 to communicate when we were not in the squads together.-á
For example, I would be in a squad, in a game, talking. I would get a message n the screen from a buddy in another game at the top of screen. I would push the ps button, and use my keyboard to type a reply. It takes a second or two. But the open text chat room works decent.-á
Also on the ps3, you can invite people into a voice chat as long as u are logged out of a game. We have had many ppl on this at once. And it's free. U just hve to use their psn names.-á
So therefor, we might not ever use this UVT from CCP. : ( |
Clove PsyKoz
15
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Posted - 2012.08.18 23:58:00 -
[18] - Quote
I like this idea. Not only that, i JUST bought UVT, but for one reason or another i have NO voice comms in any form. I can't hear or communicate with people IN-game, and i can't hear(and people cant hear me) out of game.
And yes before someone says it, my settings are set for me to use a mic. |
Cariuss Shadow
DUST University
Ivy League
8
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Posted - 2012.08.19 00:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
Brilliant idea |
Vincienzo Lamalfa
D3LTA FORC3
Orion Empire
3
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Posted - 2012.08.19 07:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Yeah man..great idea |
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Vaas Edi
SVER True Blood
Unclaimed.
10
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries
Legacy Rising
969
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Posted - 2012.08.20 18:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Clove PsyKoz wrote:I like this idea. Not only that, i JUST bought UVT, but for one reason or another i have NO voice comms in any form. I can't hear or communicate with people IN-game, and i can't hear(and people cant hear me) out of game.
And yes before someone says it, my settings are set for me to use a mic.
I had the same issue using the Official PS3 wireless stereo headset (with the USB dongle) when I plugged in the Move camera. Everything was configured correctly, yet no joy for squad chat. I unplugged the camera and rebooted and the problem went away.
To clarify, I could hear others, but they could not hear me. |
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