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Wyek Echerie
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.08.13 12:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
EDIT: there's a tl;dr on the 2nd post, if you don't want to read all of this, skip to there, then come back to find the details on the tl;dr, changed title to match content more
This may do well to go in the Feedback/Ideas section, but I wan't other people to chime in first on my thoughts seeing as I only played the game for 3 hours. For people to know: I'm an FPS player turned EVE player turned FPS player (by DUST)
After playing DUST for the lengthy time of a couple hours (3ish), I may not know all the tweaks and things people who have been playing for GÇô what has it been, a couple months? GÇô longer may know (e.g. there are a lot of threads here on Tanks OP, but from playing, I tended to avoid confrontation with the tanks [I was a sniper] so I didnGÇÖt really care about them). That being said, there are a few things I want to bring up:
1.Risk vs. Reward:
Risk vs. Reward is theoretically one of the central themes of the EVE universe, and while this is DUST, it takes place within the EVE universe. Now I realize this game is still a beta, which means itGÇÖs much easier to test how OP weapons are or how people use certain equipment when the equipment is dirt cheap and they can just kind of fling themselves into battle. I assume itGÇÖs the same with skill points, and that when DUST actually goes live and is no longer in a working beta, people will generally start with much lower skill points, or the skill points required will be higher. The reason for having so many skill points/isk to start with is for people to test out the tools.
So I have a couple ideas for after beta, or in another iteration when the game supposedly gets more serious, that may bring the game in-line with Risk v. Reward:
A.Increase the price of everything. Right now, just after signing up, I have full advanced gear sniper in the not advanced scout II dropsuit. At the moment, I can die 15 times before I may start to lose isk, and since I only fitted myself 15 times, at that point I would switch over to the ever-lasting default suits. Sure, theyGÇÖre not nearly as good, but infinite suits. Even with attackers having a limited number of respawns (clone reservs) I never felt, when using milita gear, like my death meant anything. Especially because it was free. There are a couple issues with that which IGÇÖll get to at the end. Basically, the motto GÇ£Only fly what you can afford to loseGÇ¥ doesnGÇÖt apply to DUST yet becauseGǪI can afford to lose EVERYTHING (and thatGÇÖs only with 1m isk to start with, just imagine when the game syncs with EVE and you can start with 10m isk [for a "challenge"] or 100m isk [easy mode]).
B.Make dropsuits non-bpos. I bought the scout II armor, hit create new dropsuit, and then fitted it. And I had to restock all my equipment. But apparently the dropsuit is a BPO because I never had to pay for it ever again. Especially once you get to prototype suits, which I hear are levels above the standard and advanced gear, this would be akin to buying a Titan, actually, IGÇÖve only been playing EVE for a 2 months so letGÇÖs use an example closer to reality, this would be akin to me buying a Battleship right now, and only having to worry about the equipment because if my hull dies I get a new one for free. I feel this slight change would affect the game because dying might actually mean something. In fact, even making everything except the militia variant non-BPO would aid to this.
C.I realize not all equipment is out yet, however when it is I feel DUST needs to implement the EVE mentality of GÇ£itGÇÖs better to fly a standard dropsuit well then to fly an advanced dropsuit poorly." Add to that the fact that player skill adds a lot of noticeable change (doesnGÇÖt matter if you can kill someone in one hit if you canGÇÖt actually aim at them/players have to aim manually, no auto-target lock like EVE) and I think that may take care of some balance issues, especially with the tanks people keep complaining about.
2.Teamwork:
Again, itGÇÖs still in beta, all features havenGÇÖt been implemented, so if something I say is going to be implemented in the next iteration, please ignore. That being said, one of the first things I noticed, was a chat window. And my first thought was GÇ£well, IGÇÖm never going to be using that," perhaps people can talk to me and maybe IGÇÖll read it, but I'll probably never type, especially in game. I then typed Hi to my fellow corp members. A text-based chat in a gameGǪis incredibly inconvenient if youGÇÖre using a game-pad. Yes, they have those keyboard things to connect to it, but the PS3GÇÖs one comes out of the top of the controller, and is inconvenient to use, let alone mid-game.
Now, apparently there are comms (voice) that you can activate to listen to what people are saying. However I didnGÇÖt know about this until after playing and coming on the forums. So my main idea at this junction in the beta for teamwork is: Turn on comms by default. Or at least have a giant button saying GÇ£turn on comsGÇ¥ or something. I figured it was either going to be turned on when I went into a game, or it wasnGÇÖt implemented because of beta but seriously, turn it on. If itGÇÖs annoying, people will turn it off, but if they think it doesnGÇÖt exist (yet), or they think the chat (haha, no) is the only thing that exists, they wonGÇÖt turn it on.
Also, in-game, there is no need for the text-based chat. Perhaps a commander who doesnGÇÖt deploy to the field or is in the back might use it, but the keyboard pad is terrible for in-game typingGǪtl;dr not using it in game, ever. Perhaps having the D-Pad change which comms you're talking to and just have a voice-based chat would be more useful in-game. In the merc quarters, chat I guess will be helpful when talking with EVE players, but in game...honestly it's a waste of time (at the moment at least) |
Wyek Echerie
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2012.08.13 12:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
PART 2:
Putting it all together with balance: dying.
Dying means nothing. It actually means nothing to me at all in game right now. Oh no, I went 5/20** on one skirmish match because even though IGÇÖm a sniper I ran to capture points and generally used the charge sniper hip-firing at close range (it worked, I guess the guy was within my optimal range?) to insta-kill people. I still made more money in the end than I lost. Yeah sure, I only made 25k isk after restocking my dropsuit, butGǪwell thatGÇÖs 25k isk that I canGÇÖt spend on anything else because IGÇÖve bought the best stuff I can with the skills I chose. IGÇÖm not completely sure how much tanks cost (I heard somewhere 300k isk) but compared with me, itGÇÖs no wonder theyGÇÖre super OP (again only what IGÇÖve heard). The answer to whether theyGÇÖre OP or not is: working as intended at the moment. If dying means nothing, then the fact the tank got 50 kills also means very little. ItGÇÖs an inconvenience, and if the defenders/attackers have dominated the game, then yeah spawn camping at the end sucks and you canGÇÖt do anything about it, but thatGÇÖs a bit realistic isnGÇÖt it? You canGÇÖt do anything about the fact theyGÇÖve won already, the timer just hasnGÇÖt let you leave yet. The correct answer is not to nerf tanks (at least not JUST to nerf tanks). The answer is to make dying mean something.
From my suggestion above: make dropsuits non-BPOs. Doing so would cut my ability to die in half before I have to be a bit more serious (or use milita gear). If the risk/reward is balanced, then yes, people in prototype gear will dominate for a while, but once theyGÇÖve died a few times to your tanks/teamwork well, they wonGÇÖt be able to afford (based on the reward given from the mission) to keep losing prototype suits, so theyGÇÖll switch to the basic militia gear. (Again, you need to make dropsuits not BPOs, and you need to increase the price of everything). If you implement C from my suggestions in part #1 also, then itGÇÖd be more cost-beneficial to risk dying a few times in advanced gear fitted really well (and youGÇÖd be able to do more damage/etc. if fitted correctly/have the proper support skils) or be more beneficial to buy all standard gear (should also be slightly better than militia gear to compensate for the cost) but have support skills maxed than to have advanced gear but lacking in support skills (armor buffs etc.).
If dying means something, people are more likely to use teamworkGǪEVE players are already trying to IGÇÖm guessing, but as I am not just an EVE player but also a console player, I assumed the majority of people would be running and gunning (they were).
Also, if dying means something, and tanks are still GÇ£lol I killz you,GÇ¥ then, and only then, can you nerf them and say GÇ£it was to balance the game.GÇ¥ As I said before, right now dying means nothing, so the 50 kills that tanker got before dying, didnGÇÖt mean much unless itGÇÖs the end of the game and theyGÇÖre spawn camping.
I realize right now is beta, so prices and skill points are based on a GÇ£we want to test as many features as possibleGÇ¥ not a GÇ£letGÇÖs balance everything,GÇ¥ but just keep this in mind as the iterations of beta go on. When DUST releases and if I join a DUST corp, sure IGÇÖll probably use skill more, but letGÇÖs be honest here, itGÇÖs a FPS, whether itGÇÖs how my corp will be run, or whether itGÇÖs just a GÇ£letGÇÖs get the job doneGÇ¥ itGÇÖs very likely that at the moment, IGÇÖll be able to run and gun and not care at all to my heartGÇÖs content as long as in the end we win.
And because IGÇÖm a considerate guy hereGÇÖs a TL;DR:
1.Make everything much more expensive. (Only fly what you can afford to lose)
2.Make drop-suits non-BPOs, in fact make most things non-BPOs, Militia gear can stay BPO. (see #1)
3.Stick with the EVE motto GÇ£itGÇÖs better to fly a lower tech ship well than a higher tech ship poorly.GÇ¥ Might fix some balancing issues that are currently present.
4.Turn comms on by default/fix communication. The chat windowGǪterribad, besides voice though, IGÇÖm not sure how else to do it except to get one of those terribad keyboard pads for the PS3 so I can talk with others inGǪlocal?GǪwhich IGÇÖd never use in-game, IGÇÖd use voice in game and just have the chat channel for who can hear me.
5.Make dying mean something, otherwise IGÇÖll continue to run and gun, and nerfing tanks will be pointless because then youGÇÖre taking all the risk (isk) with no reward (you get blown up instantly).
6.DonGÇÖt nerf for the sake of GÇ£itGÇÖs OP.GÇ¥ It may not just be a stats/damage thing but it may be because the way the game play is being implemented. Fix first, then nerf.
These were the big things I want to see fixed/addressed in the game. But, before I go, one last little thing:
If IGÇÖm looking down when I jump off a building, my guy freezes looking down and I can activate the boosters so I donGÇÖt die, and I can do that a little before hitting the ground. But if IGÇÖm not looking down my guy freezes looking out horizontally (not helpful since I canGÇÖt shoot) and I have to activate them before since I canGÇÖt see the ground. Even if you donGÇÖt want to implement shooting in that mode, at least let me move the camera around.
Wow, I wrote this in MS word since I didnGÇÖt have internet at the time, and then copy/pasted. 6 pages in MS WordGǪ6 pages! If only I could write my papers as easily as I could write this.
EDIT:
**Since this isn't CoD, K/D ratio, especially in Beta means ...well...nothing. Sure once the game is implemented saying "our corp has only people at a K/D ratio of over 1" will get you contracts, but for beta? who cares? except people who think the game is like CoD. In the end if you make more money than you lose (and by the way, I believe I made more than I lost even when I lost the match) does it matter if you die an insane amount? Probably not**
Edit 2: fixed a few typos/bolded tl;dr |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
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Posted - 2012.08.13 14:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
based on your teal deer.
1. already planned.
2. also already planned.
3. works as intended.
4. not planned or being intereated on as I know of. May be added after they've added muting.
5. Dying in dust isnt going to matter as much as LOSING a battle. Those mccs up there are worth more than an entire teams paycheck. But this is a future feature not in the high sec game.
6 Some things are obviously way to OP even before we get the rest of the toys out. Also when players begin to absuvily use the tool in the mannter it was not intended for (the hammer to fix a window) it should then be nerfed then buffed towards its originally intended goals. |
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.08.13 15:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
I want a better chat. In game. |
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