DUST Search - Precursor changes (Logistics, Breach rifles, RE's, and more!)

Zero Harpuia wrote:

On this, I take umbrage my good sir! The ability to look in a 360 degree arc (AKA all around the player) is a necessary ability. Let me point you to the role of Medic in TF2. The Medic need only lock his target to begin healing him, then he may continue until he either loses his Line of Sight or the target gets too far away. Because he doesn't need to stare at the target's ass, he can be on the lookout for other enemies, ambushes, etc.. If all he had to do was stare at someone's ass, he would be the very definition of a 'lazy logi'. As for the assists, yes I think you should receive bonus for assists, to draw another Medic comparison, it is where he gets most of his points, just from healing the target as he gets a kill. As for hacking, that IS support. Although giving scouts the hack rate in lieu of Logi getting repair rate bonuses, think of it this way: you and a logibro get to A. Whomever is hacking can't be fighting. Who would do the hack? The support unit or the combat unit?

...yes, I refer to Medic a lot, I used him exclusively, ok?


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Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.11 21:02:00 - [1] - Quote First : Logistics repair tools having 360 degree range after lock. You won't need to keep looking at someone after locking them. This is utterly horrible. It promotes 'lazy logi' and turns logistics from something that takes effort and skill into something super easy... maybe too easy to do. If you want to repair someone you should have to take the effort to keep them in your field of view. Talking to CCP dudes it seemed like it was a change done because not enough people were using the repair tools. I highly dispute that this fix was the proper one. The issue with repair tools was simple. A logistics player simply did not get enough points compared to combat focussed players. There was no real incentive to use them, especially since there was no real reason to care about winning or team play in the beta when all everyone wants is skillpoints. If a logistics player received assists when someone they are repairing scores a kill, they would get much more points and there would be an incentive to use them. People want stats. So if you want people to use support items, there needs to be a stat for it. But a 360 arc is just horribly unfun and unfair, speaking as someone who used the repair tools a lot for the past 5-6 months. On a related note : 10% hack bonus on logistics suit. This is a pretty unproductive bonus. A logistics dude should be getting a bonus more suited to his role, which is team support. I could see this bonus being on a scout suit, which is more suited to getting in quickly, and hacking before the enemy can respond. Logistic suits should get a bonus related to repair + resupply. I think someone else made a decent post about this (Sorry I forget your name) Suggesting that logistics should get a bonus to repair amount or range, or faster resupply rate with nanohives, or more nanite capacity with nanohives, stuff like that. Second : Remote explosives. This is a touchy issue. And it all depends on what CCP even intended their role to be. Are they supposed to be traps? Are they supposed to be AV, or used against structures? We've never really gotten an answer. However, aside from the obviously broken RE grenade spamming, these were amazingly useful as anti-vehicle and anti-infantry traps. The reduced throw distance and arming time are excellent changes. It prevents them from being spammed and stops them from being used as grenades. However, a blanket reduction on the amount you can carry is a horrible change. While it is true you can use a nanohive to still place down five of these, as they are replenished... This is simply not good enough! The change seriously hinders any attempts to use them as AV traps. You should not need to camp on a nanohive with RE's to use them to injure or finish off a vehicle. I'm sort of against any player solo'ing a high end tank, but these traps (5 RE's in a group on a road they are fleeing down) were very useful for severely wounding or finishing off a tank. This will not really be viable after this change. If CCP never intended RE's to be used against vehicles I can understand, and the sticky AV grenades + nanohive might make up for, or even become a better counter. But it does beg the question of what the purpose of RE's even is now. Third : Breach assault Rifle nerf This is a good step, but it was the wrong nerf. The breach rifle's damage was pretty fine. The thing that needed to be changed was the hipfire bonus. I'm not even sure this bonus should exist. It's very powerful, and if it needs to be there, It should be on the tactical rifle or the burst variants. I'd even be happy with the accuracy bonus being lessened slightly The reason a hipfire bonus is so powerful, is because aiming down the sights slows you down slightly. Less mobility means less survivability. A breach weapon bypasses this and allows you to stay highly mobile and still remain able to put the majority of your bullets on target. This is a massive advantage against other players who need to slow themselves down to aim at you. This is also the reason why the majority of people use the breach weapons. It has little to do with the damage, and a lot to do with the ease of aiming and increased survivability.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.12 01:41:00 - [2] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: On this, I take umbrage my good sir! The ability to look in a 360 degree arc (AKA all around the player) is a necessary ability. Let me point you to the role of Medic in TF2. The Medic need only lock his target to begin healing him, then he may continue until he either loses his Line of Sight or the target gets too far away. Because he doesn't need to stare at the target's ass, he can be on the lookout for other enemies, ambushes, etc.. If all he had to do was stare at someone's ass, he would be the very definition of a 'lazy logi'. As for the assists, yes I think you should receive bonus for assists, to draw another Medic comparison, it is where he gets most of his points, just from healing the target as he gets a kill. As for hacking, that IS support. Although giving scouts the hack rate in lieu of Logi getting repair rate bonuses, think of it this way: you and a logibro get to A. Whomever is hacking can't be fighting. Who would do the hack? The support unit or the combat unit? ...yes, I refer to Medic a lot, I used him exclusively, ok? How is having the logi player able to ignore the dude(s) he is repairing and actively watch for flankers a good thing? I am firmly against anything that removes the possibility of flanking. A person repairing another should be focussing their attention on their target. I also forgot to mention in my OP that hacking gets this same problem. As it is now... You can easily flank someone while they hack. They need to have teammates watching their back. With the new patch, you can easily start the hack then turn around, and it is no longer possible for them to flank you. You can easily stop your hack, kill them and then restart it. That is -very- bad and discourages team play.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.12 04:12:00 - [3] - Quote Zero Harpuia wrote: Seriously, the Repair Tool is shaping up to be exactly like a TF2 Medigun. Go play that free game, or watch a youtube video of a decent Medic, see exactly how 'horrible' it is that he can turn while healing. You will get no sympathy from me Mr. Knife. I've played TF2. I was very happy that logistics players actually had to dedicate themselves. Now CCP is flip-flopping and I highly disapprove. You should have a teammate watching your logibro's back, while the logibro watches their backs! And in reality, you're pretty much never going to save someone with the repair tool if they are taking fire from anyone who can aim. Even now the best way to play logi is to follow your dudes and actually help them by shooting and then repairing any damage inflicted during the firefight afterwards. You're not going to stop a nonheavy suit from dying in 90% of firefights anyways, unless the dude you are fixing is -really- good at strafing. So yes, I would like logistics dudes to be paying attention to their teammates while they are repairing them. It has worked great for almost a year now.. Why fix what isn't broke? Also.. I hear talk from CCP about how the repair tool might be a limited use item by them giving it 'ammo' that decreases as you use it. I think that is a bad change. Adding an accumulating overheat though? Definitely. The gun can be a little overpowered in some cases if you've got a chance to have it going nonstop on someone decent enough to avoid fire. Making it overheat after 20-30 seconds or so with like a 15 second cooldown would not be amiss.
Nova Knife Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State 789	Posted - 2012.08.12 07:09:00 - [4] - Quote Glad to see people who have played logi agree with me! As for the hack thing - You will need to start the hack at the terminal and stay in the same spot, but you will be free to turn around while you are holding circle, preventing anyone from sneaking up behind you while you are hacking. Which is bad! You should be totally vulnerable to people sneaking up on you while you hack. This is why we have teammates, to protect our hackers!