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Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
   |
Posted - 2012.08.07 19:18:00 -
[1] - Quote
Notes and Response to CSM/CCP Dust Discussions
First off let me thank the CSM and CCP for releasing verbatim notes, I know it is substantially more work. (Would video notes with secrecy redactions possibly be easier?) Having the opportunity as a player of any game to be an active and participating stakeholder through both the CSM and directly is something that some in the Eve community may have come to take for granted, but is still, in my opinion, unique and admirable in business much less the gaming industry. I wanted to take some time out and address some things that are mentioned in the Dust discussions, with full understanding that not only is the situation fluid, but that this snapshot is also dated.
1.High-Sec Matches/Matchmaking: I can definitely appreciate the balancing act that comes with making High-Sec viable for new players without making it a completely safe haven that will keep people from progressing through low to null-sec combat. The same type of difficulty presents itself in Eve, trying to incentivize null/low participation maximizes everyoneGÇÖs experience. One way I think this can be achieved is by having corporate contracts for dust mercs have lucrative team contract bonuses. This could be simply GÇÿDo xxx ISK worth of damage to the enemy, get yyyGÇÖ or even something like GÇÖxxx ISK bonus / marauder destroyedGÇÖ terms like this allow an Eve corp to bleed their competition fiscally while incentivizing their hired mercs beyond normal contract rewards.
2.PI, Dust Prices & Items: The breadth and will of the Eve market is immense. We know that Eve opportunists will game the system any way they can. Controlling levers to influence this is one option. Let me posit another. PI has no territoriality currently, but as districts are split, playerGÇÖs pins fall naturally into districts. Taking the idea presented about taxing PI income a step farther, you could execute that tax with two features. First, give the dust corp that is in control of the district power over PI tax rates. This helps give planets variable desirability based not only on materials and PI population burning them, but also variable district owner taxes. Second, have the taxes paid in the actual PI material mined or processed, not in ISK. This means they can be viable market forces in their own right. As docking at a planet to access its market could be an issue, you would need the Procurement Skill (Proficiency at placing remote buy orders on the market. Level 1 allows for the placement of orders within the same solar system, Level 2 extends that range to systems within 5 jumps, and each subsequent level then doubles it. Level 5 allows for placement of remote buy orders anywhere within current region.) to access this GÇÿPlanetary marketGÇÖ- This would allow an Eve pilot to buy from planets remotely with L1 Procurement, a mechanic can then be determined best to GÇÿpick upGÇÖ goods purchased planet side. This could be similar to the random launch of the current pickup used when there is no customs office, with a warning window for buyers that GÇÿGoods will be launched into orbit upon purchase.GÇÖ This could also be a mechanic going through the customs office allowing office owners taxation of Dust exports for providing the market intermediary. This Customs Office mechanic then incentivizes Dust players to befriend Customs Office owners for lower export taxes, or ally in Eve to evict those owners and have their new friends control the Sov/Customs Office of their home planet.
3.Dust Blueprints and Manufacturing: In the same vein as above, allowing Dust merc corporations who control districts to be viable forces in the Eve community and to deter Eve players being the fiscal gods of the universe, Dust mercs should be able to produce and sell hard copies of their gear off blueprints with the correct materials (mined by Eve players) when in control of a district and by creating the correct facilities. They should also be able to use the BPOs to produce BPCs that Eve players can then use to produce the vital Dust goods. This allows Dust players who have acquired unique BPOs in loot (Such as Dragonfly Scout BPO sold in Merc Pack, PvE drops, district capture rewards, etc) to control the supply of Dust items to other mercs as well as BPCs to Eve pilots, while also being manufacturers, eliminating some of the Eve monopolistic potential. Eve pilots cannot nearly as easily lord over Dust market and item supply if we break down the barriers to entry and allow the mercs themselves the ability to control access to the essential factor (BPCs from their BPOs) as well as the ability to produce their own items and be direct market competitors of Eve producers. Eve producers are not unjustly affected because they have greater access to essential production materials mined in Eve, at competitive prices, due to their relative mobility compared to mercs. Dust producers would additionally have to import through a Customs Office and pay subsequent taxes to the owner, skewing their BPO advantage back to equality. This also opens another avenue incentivizing Dust corps to take districts, as it is the route to controlling your own logistics and supply of war materials, while also incentivizing cooperation or alliance between Customs Office owner and District owners.
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Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 13:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ah yes, can we have a visual cue in market and info screen for items that are BPOs - like militia gear is now - and gear that is actual hard product? |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 19:13:00 -
[3] - Quote
To clarify- I think the control levers CCP has set on the Dust/Eve market, like taxing cross-game transactions, can have some of the desired effects. I believe it would be better to incentivize desired outcomes through resource control constraints. Only Dust can control Dust BPOs required for essential BPCs for production as well as sole control of ground districts. Only Eve, besides being the main owners of capital in the galaxy, can control Customs Offices and minerals, datacores, etc required for production of Dust Items.
By strictly defining suppliers of these vital resources we have forced a market balance between the two discrete entities by making sure Dust mercs are not only unwitting consumers to Eve players, but also crucial materials suppliers in the chain. |
SILENTSAM 69
Pro Hic Immortalis
RISE of LEGION
421
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Posted - 2012.08.08 20:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
I think price adjusting and pay adjusting would be much better than taxing ISK that goes from one to the other.
CCP said earlier that the ISK would flow, and a tax would take back from that. DUST will be a great ISK sink for the EVE economy.
One of the CSM council said it best when they said that miniaturizing technology costs a lot, and that can be reflected in DUST gear prices.
I would think that NPC missions in High Sec would pay out around what mission running pays out in High Sec. Then those out in low sec might make more in line with higher NPC missions. null sec would be paid by players and that is where good ISK would be made and things would be ruled by alliance economies.
CCP just needs to monitor the rate at which vehicles and suits and weapons etc are used up and adjust the prices and the pay outs to balance that economy and bring it in line with the EVE economy.
I think there should be a natural tilt for EVE players to make a bit more of course. It just makes sense to make more in space, and if it makes some DUST players get EVE accounts all the better for CCP really.
If it makes EVe players influence a little much then i think that will just be natural and may even shift and change over time. |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 23:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
The problem is, taxing is the main mechanism of price adjustment. Eve's unregulated free market finds equilibrium at a socially efficient point where there are many suppliers and consumers. When any one entity controls a significant percentage of total supply it gives a natural advantage and ability to manipulate the system.
The only way to effectively have CCP regulate Dust prices is by not integrating it completely with Eve's- but the goal is eventually just that- full integration into the same market system. What I am proposing are mechanisms to ensure Dust players a functional place in the market- power in the supply chain. With Dust mercs assured that position in the chain, all market effects they experience are directly translatable downchain. With the volume of expected Dust players, ensuring that they are essentially doubling as suppliers and consumers means no single supplier or consumer can become a 'price maker', all are market 'price takers.' This is due to there being so many suppliers, no one entity can really affect equilibrium price by changing its price, and so many consumers, no single entity can really affect demand price by what it wants to pay or actually buys. |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 19:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Great thread on contract implementation in line with item 1-
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=29886&find=unread |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 17:36:00 -
[7] - Quote
TLDR;
1. Make contracts deep and lucrative
2. Utilize Dust control of the ground and Eve control of space to reach an economic balance of power through corp tax control. Tax PI in PI goods, not isk.
3. Make Dust BPOs 'Dust only' assets, but Dust BPCs able to be sold to Eve- giving Dust mercs control of vital inputs for it's own markets.
Ideally with specific contract clauses you could be paid for any aspect of the fight- check out the link above after commenting or supporting this thread. |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 18:43:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP working on new contract system- to coincide with Dust release if I understand. Should have part or all of Item one covered. Any more support for Dust players as economic suppliers? |
Aq'sa
L.O.T.I.S.
Legacy Rising
44
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 13:53:00 -
[9] - Quote
Could also have BPCs for dust gear drop in Dust only- eliminates inherent BPO issues, and still allows Dust mercs control of a valuable production input. |
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