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Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
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Posted - 2012.08.03 07:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
A lot of you might not know this. Infact, most of you probably come from countries with rich armies so even those who've done military service probably won't know this. Where I come from, there are always budget issues with military equipment. This leads to some interesting solutions. APC's for example (Armoured Personnel Carriers). While we do have some APC's which were designed as such from the ground up, we also have quite a lot which were build from decomissioned tanks. What is basically done is you take a tank and start by removing its turret. That clears up a hell of a lot of internal space which is then converted to a personnel carrying capacity. Why is this good? You still get all the advantages of the tank's superiour armour, speed and staying power but instead of using it to blast away you use it to get infantry much further into enemy ground.
So how does this relate to Dust? I was thinking that maybe the APC role could be a module you fit to a tank instead of the main turret. You'd still have the two small ones for defence (much as modern APC's have) but you'd convert that firepower to a transport role. It would be like a heavily armoured land based dropship.
What do you think? Could this be a good module to have? |
Rhadiem
Algintal Core Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 07:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
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Posted - 2012.08.03 08:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. Of course the module would add passenger seats. It wouldn't be an APC otherwise.
I think there could be both. A lighter, faster APC which is its own vehicle but a heavier option with the HAV APC module. |
vermacht Doe
93
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Posted - 2012.08.03 08:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game.
Uh no he wouldn't extra seats is the point of the apc module and thats the point of the lav |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
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Posted - 2012.08.03 08:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. Uh no he wouldn't extra seats is the point of the apc module and thats the point of the lav I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. APC's are designed to carry 8-15 people into the battlefield in a fairly protected manner. They are support vehicles. The LAV, while it can act as a support vehicle with some fits, it not designed to transport more than 1-2 people to the battlefield. Sure, it does this VERY fast and can be used as a sort of commando deployment method but not for the bulk of the force. |
vermacht Doe
93
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Posted - 2012.08.03 09:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:vermacht Doe wrote:Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. Uh no he wouldn't extra seats is the point of the apc module and thats the point of the lav I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. APC's are designed to carry 8-15 people into the battlefield in a fairly protected manner. They are support vehicles. The LAV, while it can act as a support vehicle with some fits, it not designed to transport more than 1-2 people to the battlefield. Sure, it does this VERY fast and can be used as a sort of commando deployment method but not for the bulk of the force.
I mean the lav is what he would call a humvee class vehicle |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
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Posted - 2012.08.03 09:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:Grit Breather wrote:vermacht Doe wrote:Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. Uh no he wouldn't extra seats is the point of the apc module and thats the point of the lav I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. APC's are designed to carry 8-15 people into the battlefield in a fairly protected manner. They are support vehicles. The LAV, while it can act as a support vehicle with some fits, it not designed to transport more than 1-2 people to the battlefield. Sure, it does this VERY fast and can be used as a sort of commando deployment method but not for the bulk of the force. I mean the lav is what he would call a humvee class vehicle Ah, yes I suppose. Not entirely accurate in military terms though. The Humvee carries a driver, a gunner and 2-3 more people. It's can also be (in some fits) armoured against even direct RPG hits. The Humvee is sort of a link between what we know as the LAV and what an APC should be. It's somewhere between them.
But back to your point, for Dust I agree with you. At least for the moment we don't need anything heavier than the LAV for what the Humvee does. We need the LAV and for larger engagements an APC. |
vermacht Doe
93
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:vermacht Doe wrote:Grit Breather wrote:vermacht Doe wrote:Rhadiem wrote:You'd still only have a total of 3 people in that vehicle. If they wanted to add passenger slots when that module was equipped, that could work, but it seems a better solution would be a new vehicle.
I'd like an APC though, as well as a Hummvee class vehicle in the game. Uh no he wouldn't extra seats is the point of the apc module and thats the point of the lav I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. APC's are designed to carry 8-15 people into the battlefield in a fairly protected manner. They are support vehicles. The LAV, while it can act as a support vehicle with some fits, it not designed to transport more than 1-2 people to the battlefield. Sure, it does this VERY fast and can be used as a sort of commando deployment method but not for the bulk of the force. I mean the lav is what he would call a humvee class vehicle Ah, yes I suppose. Not entirely accurate in military terms though. The Humvee carries a driver, a gunner and 2-3 more people. It's can also be (in some fits) armoured against even direct RPG hits. The Humvee is sort of a link between what we know as the LAV and what an APC should be. It's somewhere between them. But back to your point, for Dust I agree with you. At least for the moment we don't need anything heavier than the LAV for what the Humvee does. We need the LAV and for larger engagements an APC.
What if they made another weapon class in between the current ones(medium) to be used buy the apc driver to give it more fire power than a lav but less than a hav |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:What if they made another weapon class in between the current ones(medium) to be used buy the apc driver to give it more fire power than a lav but less than a hav You're speaking of vehicles similar to these: Russian (old): http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/brdm-2-ntc.jpg German: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_ABr6uiJjj2w/THWXQuviePI/AAAAAAAADCA/VLeSuc5dPxI/s1600/a.jpg British (I think): http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6vdnXB4ISms/Tjlvh2xmPuI/AAAAAAAAAVA/jFG_Y1td37w/s1600/LAV-A2_Light_wheeled_Armoured_Vehicle_US_Marine_Corps_640.jpg
While they do have their roles and I think Dust should eventually have them, it would take a VERY big battlefield to allow adequate use of both this class, LAVs and HAVs. We just don't have big enough maps or teams to properly field them. We'll probably only get this type of class when the PS4 is released and Dust has a lot more hardware resources at its disposal.
Also, on a different note. I found this: http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20100815220820/halo/images/a/aa/Real-halo-warthog.jpg Someone actually build a real life Halo Warthog. Damn it people are insane. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 11:52:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:A lot of you might not know this. Infact, most of you probably come from countries with rich armies so even those who've done military service probably won't know this. Where I come from, there are always budget issues with military equipment. This leads to some interesting solutions. APC's for example (Armoured Personnel Carriers). While we do have some APC's which were designed as such from the ground up, we also have quite a lot which were build from decomissioned tanks. What is basically done is you take a tank and start by removing its turret. That clears up a hell of a lot of internal space which is then converted to a personnel carrying capacity. Why is this good? You still get all the advantages of the tank's superiour armour, speed and staying power but instead of using it to blast away you use it to get infantry much further into enemy ground.
So how does this relate to Dust? I was thinking that maybe the APC role could be a module you fit to a tank instead of the main turret. You'd still have the two small ones for defence (much as modern APC's have) but you'd convert that firepower to a transport role. It would be like a heavily armoured land based dropship.
What do you think? Could this be a good module to have? That is an EXCELLENT idea. I mean, the reason everyone calls them tanks anyway is because that's all they can do right now. They're called HAVs in-game because they're supposed to support multiple roles, and this would be an excellent one for them. Heck, I'd even say just take that and a mobile CRU, and get rid of the stationary ones we have right now, though that mainly comes from the fact that we can't currently place our own deployables. Being able to do that will fix all those issues, but I'd still like to see this idea implemented. |
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Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
For some ideas about how this would look, here are some examples:
- Puma - This is based on a British Centurion tank.
- Achzarit (vicious) - This is based on a Russian T55 tank.
- Namer (tiger) - This is based on the Israeli Merkava (chariot) tank. This one is not even yet in active use. It's basically a new prototype.
These are all very useful vehicles and the military relies heavily on them. |
Riggs Tank
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:47:00 -
[12] - Quote
I think APC is what the dropship are made for. But the tank without a turret would be a cheap option. to make it more useful the "Mod" should be more like a moblie CRU. either way its going to be EZ sp for my forge gun. |
vermacht Doe
93
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 12:55:00 -
[13] - Quote
Riggs Tank wrote:I think APC is what the dropship are made for. But the tank without a turret would be a cheap option. to make it more useful the "Mod" should be more like a moblie CRU. either way its going to be EZ sp for my forge gun.
It's suppose to be faster than the tank with a driver controlled small turret and carrying more people A bit like a bf3 or mag lav |
Riggs Tank
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:09:00 -
[14] - Quote
Wow think of all the SP if the thing can hold 10 ppl.. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
vermacht Doe wrote:Riggs Tank wrote:I think APC is what the dropship are made for. But the tank without a turret would be a cheap option. to make it more useful the "Mod" should be more like a moblie CRU. either way its going to be EZ sp for my forge gun. It's suppose to be faster than the tank with a driver controlled small turret and carrying more people A bit like a bf3 or mag lav I'm not sure about the driver controlled turret. I think it should be more like the LAV and dropship where the driver just drives. As for speed, you're right. The APC module could have a speed boost of 25% or so. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 13:37:00 -
[16] - Quote
Riggs Tank wrote:Wow think of all the SP if the thing can hold 10 ppl.. Just think of it properly tanking your damage and then unloading 10 merc on your head. |
Average Joe81
57
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 17:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
so thats what sn APC is |
Cless Vallein
Teknomen
37
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Play BF3... the LAV 25 is an Armored APC that carries 6 peeps, 1 driver, 1 turret gunner and 4 extra dudes... It's got 8 wheels and keeps on trucking. Or something like the Bradley Fighting vehicle which is an APC and tank killer |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grit Breather wrote:A lot of you might not know this. Infact, most of you probably come from countries with rich armies so even those who've done military service probably won't know this. Where I come from, there are always budget issues with military equipment. This leads to some interesting solutions. APC's for example (Armoured Personnel Carriers). While we do have some APC's which were designed as such from the ground up, we also have quite a lot which were build from decomissioned tanks. What is basically done is you take a tank and start by removing its turret. That clears up a hell of a lot of internal space which is then converted to a personnel carrying capacity. Why is this good? You still get all the advantages of the tank's superiour armour, speed and staying power but instead of using it to blast away you use it to get infantry much further into enemy ground.
So how does this relate to Dust? I was thinking that maybe the APC role could be a module you fit to a tank instead of the main turret. You'd still have the two small ones for defence (much as modern APC's have) but you'd convert that firepower to a transport role. It would be like a heavily armoured land based dropship.
What do you think? Could this be a good module to have?
Sounds like what isreal does with every tank battellion they've captured. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Interesting. We proposed this same idea to CCP in the IRC earlier this week and they responded very positively to it. The questions left to answer are:
1) How many seats should it add? 3 makes a full squad, 4 makes a full squad and a driver to keep the engine warm, and 6 puts a full squad in the trunk. My personal inclination is 3. Perhaps there could be a skill for this module (Armored Transport) that unlocks higher tier versions with more extreme fitting requirements. 2) Should it adjust any other stats? Does it lower armor? Add to armor? Increase speed? Personally I'd keep it simple for balance reasons and just lower the fitting requirements if you want to leave room for better defenses.
I love this idea and it is always a good sign when people come to similar conclusions about how to address a wanted feature. |
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TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:42:00 -
[21] - Quote
Please don't put any turrets on the APC, just defensive mechanisms. Because then you'll have noobs taking the APC and trying to use it as a tank and destroying the foward spawn. |
Noc Tempre
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
1170
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:44:00 -
[22] - Quote
TotalBreakage wrote:Please don't put any turrets on the APC, just defensive mechanisms. Because then you'll have noobs taking the APC and trying to use it as a tank and destroying the foward spawn.
Um, this isn't MAG, you don't have to worry about randoms stealing it as long as someone you trust stays in the driver seat. |
TotalBreakage
Sanmatar Kelkoons Minmatar Republic
410
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:46:00 -
[23] - Quote
Noc Tempre wrote:TotalBreakage wrote:Please don't put any turrets on the APC, just defensive mechanisms. Because then you'll have noobs taking the APC and trying to use it as a tank and destroying the foward spawn. Um, this isn't MAG, you don't have to worry about randoms stealing it as long as someone you trust stays in the driver seat. Once this game opens up to the masses I can guarantee you there are going to be a ton of dumbfucks doing this. |
Ten-Sidhe
Osmon Surveillance Caldari State
414
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Not if they require the skills to drive it, the guy that buys it can't drive it without skills so why should a random person be able to.
The real life versions add armour since the turret is heavy, extra weight can be added elsewhere with its removal. They could have variants that add to armour, shield, and speed(reduced weight). Or have it just add crew capacity.
Hav can already equip a mobile cru, most just don't. Give the driver control of the small hull mounted gun that can only fire forward, and have 2 small turrets on top that have 180 degree fire to each side for passengers. less firepower then hav, but carries a squad.
3 passengers sound good, so passenger and crew make a full squad.
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Jax Sotken
Seituoda Taskforce Command Caldari State
8
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 19:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
I would love to see support variants of the APC, would be the ultimate logistics vehicle. Our current ground option for logistics is too fragile. |
Grit Breather
BetaMax.
660
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 21:58:00 -
[26] - Quote
I'm happy CCP like this idea. Nice to make a difference.
Someone earlier said this sounds like what Israel do with captured tanks. Well that's what I base my knowledge off of so good guess.
I think this should carry a full squad so yeah, 6 people in total. I still don't think there should be a driver operated turret. Just 2 small turrets operated by the crew. The driver should just drive. Also, another issue the needs addressing is how the crew will see what's outside. In a large operation on a large map you could spend more than a few minutes just being driven around. While it's ok in real life, I don't think PS3 players would much appreciate not seeing anything for a few minutes. |
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