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The dark cloud
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1060
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
I tried out last week the tier 2 Sagaris with high modified shield amplifiers. In my opinion the only problem with them is that the shield amplifier stack penalty isnt enough. To be honest you shouldnt be aible to put 4 25% shield amplifiers on 1 HAV and beeing aible to get also a shield booster on it aswell. Cause the more you have on a tank equipped the harder its to take down no matter what. Even with alot of AV weapons you wont take down a experienced HAV driver. As soon he hits less then 60% shields he runs off, recharge shields and then returns to the battlefield. Cause at the moment the only counter against a Tier 2 HAV is another tier 2 HAV. And dont get me wrong this should also apply to the armor resistance modules. |
ilafey
29
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:26:00 -
[2] - Quote
With 4 resistance modules we get around 62% damage reduction. It's much better to use a dcu instead of an amp for the fourth that way you get about 74.8% damage reduction. |
Mobius Wyvern
BetaMax.
1216
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Posted - 2012.08.01 22:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yeah, the stacking penalty actually cuts the bonus by 50% in this. 1st - 25% 2nd - 12.5% 3rd - 6.75% and so on. |
Just Bad
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.08.02 00:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
@ Mobius - I'm curious where you sourced the info on the stacking penalties, could you provide that? Gotta say it does make sense that it wouldn't necessarily use the same stacking penalties from EVE because of the relatively limited number of slots available but that's what I've been working with so far. |
pjster long
Doomheim
28
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Posted - 2012.08.02 00:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:I tried out last week the tier 2 Sagaris with high modified shield amplifiers. In my opinion the only problem with them is that the shield amplifier stack penalty isnt enough. To be honest you shouldnt be aible to put 4 25% shield amplifiers on 1 HAV and beeing aible to get also a shield booster on it aswell. Cause the more you have on a tank equipped the harder its to take down no matter what. Even with alot of AV weapons you wont take down a experienced HAV driver. As soon he hits less then 60% shields he runs off, recharge shields and then returns to the battlefield. Cause at the moment the only counter against a Tier 2 HAV is another tier 2 HAV. And dont get me wrong this should also apply to the armor resistance modules.
THERE IS A T2 HAV!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.08.02 01:28:00 -
[6] - Quote
Just Bad wrote:@ Mobius - I'm curious where you sourced the info on the stacking penalties, could you provide that? Gotta say it does make sense that it wouldn't necessarily use the same stacking penalties from EVE because of the relatively limited number of slots available but that's what I've been working with so far.
Fairly certain its confirmed that they're the same as EVE.
http://www.eve-wiki.net/index.php?title=Stacking_penalty
General rule is that a 4th of anything is a waste of a slot. |
Icy Tiger
496
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Posted - 2012.08.02 01:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Then the stacking penalty isn't working. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.08.02 01:35:00 -
[8] - Quote
Icy Tiger wrote:Then the stacking penalty isn't working.
If thats true then 4 -25% resists would make a tank impossible to kill, which I assure you is not true. Stacking penalties are working perfectly fine. |
Lord Sedto
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2012.08.02 02:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
Do we really need to nerf it? If you work as a team you should be able to take it out and if you can not then is it because your AV grenades are not good enough? If it is stacking penalty not working then fix that and lets see what happens. If it is because it is overpowered then power up something to compete and make it possible to use a team and destroy. If it is because you can not solo a tank well you never should be able to solo a tank they are expensive and as such should provide enough to make the averaged skilled driver able to do good amount and take a good amount of damage. |
General Funguy
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.08.02 03:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Anyone who thinks a well fit Sagaris can't be destroyed should try hopping in one and facing off against proto swarms camping on a tower, or a decent forge gunner. True, marauders are hard to take out, but that's how it should be, it's a freakin' tank. If they were easy to destroy, no one would use them because they cost too much to lose. Losing a marauder takes a few games to make up the cost. And that's just for one. If you want to destroy one all you need is either teamwork or a good strategy. Many times we spend half the match avoiding enemy fire because we don't want to lose our investment.
And in all honesty, I've noticed that the guys using proto suits usually get more kills, at least in ambush. It's due to the mobility, they can get into areas where tanks can't. Marauders are easy enough to avoid in most maps if you have an idea of where it is, just don't stand there and let it shoot at you.
And to all the people who futilely shoot at me with assault rifles, thanks for the easy kills. |
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Lord Sedto
Amarr Templars Amarr Empire
25
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Posted - 2012.08.02 04:31:00 -
[11] - Quote
General Funguy wrote:Anyone who thinks a well fit Sagaris can't be destroyed should try hopping in one and facing off against proto swarms camping on a tower, or a decent forge gunner. True, marauders are hard to take out, but that's how it should be, it's a freakin' tank. If they were easy to destroy, no one would use them because they cost too much to lose. Losing a marauder takes a few games to make up the cost. And that's just for one. If you want to destroy one all you need is either teamwork or a good strategy. Many times we spend half the match avoiding enemy fire because we don't want to lose our investment. And in all honesty, I've noticed that the guys using proto suits usually get more kills, at least in ambush. It's due to the mobility, they can get into areas where tanks can't. Marauders are easy enough to avoid in most maps if you have an idea of where it is, just don't stand there and let it shoot at you. And to all the people who futilely shoot at me with assault rifles, thanks for the easy kills.
haha so true and yes I have been one of those idiots jumping and shooting at a tank at the same time throwing AV nades and yelling on the comms for assistance. I think when I do not get assistance its because people are like oh he has a tank he is Over powered don't assist that idiot. Though if I had a team helping me as I have in the past a tank is not hard to take down!!
plused you cause well its true lol |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.08.02 05:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
General Funguy wrote:Anyone who thinks a well fit Sagaris can't be destroyed should try hopping in one and facing off against proto swarms camping on a tower, or a decent forge gunner. True, marauders are hard to take out, but that's how it should be, it's a freakin' tank. If they were easy to destroy, no one would use them because they cost too much to lose. Losing a marauder takes a few games to make up the cost. And that's just for one. If you want to destroy one all you need is either teamwork or a good strategy. Many times we spend half the match avoiding enemy fire because we don't want to lose our investment. And in all honesty, I've noticed that the guys using proto suits usually get more kills, at least in ambush. It's due to the mobility, they can get into areas where tanks can't. Marauders are easy enough to avoid in most maps if you have an idea of where it is, just don't stand there and let it shoot at you. And to all the people who futilely shoot at me with assault rifles, thanks for the easy kills.
A few AV grenades or couple salvos of Proto Swarm are of little concern, but sustained fire or high level assault forge guns will make quick work of any tank, regardless of how well its fit. This is why good tank drivers will rarely stop moving, constantly breaking line of sight from AV forces is necessary for survival.
If you're going to try to kill a high level tank, assume that if you let it out of sight for more than 30 seconds, it'll have full health by the time you find it again. |
Dewie Cheecham
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
677
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Posted - 2012.08.02 06:53:00 -
[13] - Quote
pjster long wrote:The dark cloud wrote:I tried out last week the tier 2 Sagaris with high modified shield amplifiers. In my opinion the only problem with them is that the shield amplifier stack penalty isnt enough. To be honest you shouldnt be aible to put 4 25% shield amplifiers on 1 HAV and beeing aible to get also a shield booster on it aswell. Cause the more you have on a tank equipped the harder its to take down no matter what. Even with alot of AV weapons you wont take down a experienced HAV driver. As soon he hits less then 60% shields he runs off, recharge shields and then returns to the battlefield. Cause at the moment the only counter against a Tier 2 HAV is another tier 2 HAV. And dont get me wrong this should also apply to the armor resistance modules. THERE IS A T2 HAV!!!!!!!!!!!!
TIER 2, not TECH 2 |
Debacle Nano
Shadow Company HQ
639
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Posted - 2012.08.02 07:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
Tier 2 HAV's are fine. That Sagaris driver was just smart. |
Just Bad
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.08.02 07:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
@ Pokey - That may be so but without having a way to figure out how they're doing it from the in game UI it'd be nice to have a Dev post linked stating as much. |
General Funguy
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
58
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Posted - 2012.08.02 08:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
From what I have heard, stacking penalties in DUST are the same as they are in EVE. The max shield resistance is around 60% (I think), and this isn't something I figured out myself, I had to compare to a BETTER DRIVER in order to attempt to improve not only my HAV fittings, but my strategy. Keeping a Sagaris alive isn't as easy as you'd think once you go against people who know how to counter it. Even harder against a SURYA, those things always seem to get the best of me.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
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Posted - 2012.08.02 09:26:00 -
[17] - Quote
Just Bad wrote:@ Pokey - That may be so but without having a way to figure out how they're doing it from the in game UI it'd be nice to have a Dev post linked stating as much.
Its easy, get a friend with a swarm launcher/forge on the other team and have him shoot your tank. Calculate his total damage output, and then record the % damage it does to your tank. Calculate from that % lost how much HP damage he actually did to you, compare it to his actual damage output, that'll give you your damage resist values. Compare several fits with varying stacking situations and you can see how the stacking penalties work.
Or just hang out in IRC chat and ask the dev yourself if you want confirmation. |
Just Bad
Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation
34
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Posted - 2012.08.02 10:31:00 -
[18] - Quote
@ Pokey - makes sense, wouldn't even have bothered trying that myself because it's not really what I'd consider a controlled environment. That's good enough for me, means I don't have to go changing spreadsheets. Thanks.
Hoping to be on the IRC channel before too long, would be nice to have a bit more direct back and forth between the community and developers but I suppose given the quantity of threads on here that's a lot of time. IRC is a fair bit more immediate. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention
583
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 23:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Just Bad wrote:@ Pokey - makes sense, wouldn't even have bothered trying that myself because it's not really what I'd consider a controlled environment. That's good enough for me, means I don't have to go changing spreadsheets. Thanks.
Hoping to be on the IRC channel before too long, would be nice to have a bit more direct back and forth between the community and developers but I suppose given the quantity of threads on here that's a lot of time. IRC is a fair bit more immediate.
I will agree with you though that I'd like a stat for damage resistance, or at the very least and effective HP stat. Its easy enough to calculate myself, but being able to see it at a glance is nice when tweaking fits. |
Velvet Overkill
104
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Posted - 2012.08.03 00:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
If there isn't any AV people on the maruader's team, a good dropship pilot with good gunners/guns can easily do constant dmg to keep the tank away and even kill it. If the DS pilot flies directly above the tank, it can't target the DS. |
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